Basejumper.com - archive

http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/...not-deploy-fatality/

That is so sad. Thoughts & prayers are with you Clayton.

http://www.cnn.com/...index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Everytime I read these reports I get so angry when I scroll down and read the comments on the article. People really bum me out.

Sorry Clayton, dont really know you but wish you the best.

I feel you there.

Our thoughts are with you Clayton.

Then don't read them. Why expose yourself to their vicious sociopathic ignorance? It's bad enough we have to deal with the one in the White House.

What I'd like to know is if this was a wingsuit jump or not. Base 698 said it was a wingsuit jump in the CNN article comments but it hasn't been mentioned elsewhere unless I missed it.

Condolences to Clayton.


44

I saw that it was 3rd hand, and is listed as such on the BFL.

it was posted on FB that it was her 1st wingsuit base jump, exit was good, didnt get it flying forward much, reached to emergency pull at 15sec, impacted talus with nothing out.

First wingsuit BASE jump or first wingsuit jump?


BSBD

It's a sad sign of the times that this question needs to be asked... First wsbase...


Sorry Clayton... BSBD

Hopefully just to clear up some speculation.

"Clayton asked me to give an update so people will know what happened. Clayton and Amber were jumping in southern Utah. Amber was doing her first wingsuit base jump. She had a good exit and was stable but did not build up much foreword speed and was not out flying the tallus. She must have lost altitude awareness. She reached back to pull around 15 seconds in to the flight but was much too low and impacted before she threw her pilot chute. This is a big loss to everyone who knew Amber. Our thoughts go out to Amber's family and Clayton. Please try to stay safe out there everyone."

Is the site a good first wingsuit site?

It would not be my first choice, but even a fat old guy you know was able to get the full altitude 8 years ago, on his first WS BASE flight in 2 years. It's not a particularly short or difficult start, certainly, but it's also not Kjerag.

There was a lot of video of it on the web several years ago, under the title "Desert Flight School." I've got that video on disk somewhere, if you want to see it.

I'd definitely be curious to see video of the exit point if it's easily sharable.

http://www.nps.gov/zion/parknews/basejumperfatality.htm

Condolences

I haven't been to this site, but if you look at a map it's pretty obvious... there's really only one exit point leading to a 15s+ flight with talus.

Google earth is a great tool for examining this site without video, and it's easy to see how one could quickly lose altitude awareness. The ground along the talus doesn't have a lot of discerning features for altitude (rocks of uniform color and lots of bushes), and it's hard to gauge size of what is on the ground. The talus is initially steep, but flattens out fairly quickly.

Condolences to Clayton. Be safe out there people.

Thanks for sharing that.

For anyone who missed it, Clayton and Amber did something pretty awesome on their wedding day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4S2Onr9fRY

I watched/helped Amber make her first jump. Right out of the gates she was solid as a rock on day 1. I've watched her turn around a couple slider down 180s with faster speed than most guys. I also watched her gain confidece over a couple years of jumping while never having a fraction of the egocentric problems a lot of jumpers seem to have. She did it for fun and that's what I respected about her.

Yes the area is a 9 second rock drop (which is bigger than my first WS) but it is a very hard talas to read with massive boulders and small bristlecones. It's easy to lose where you are at and I can imagine the sensory overload on a first WS jump in such an area that is very undulating. There is a cliff band about a good rock throw away that seems like it will give you more altitude than it really does. All these factors probably contributed.

She told me this was her plan and I strongly suggested she go to Europe or at least somewhere more forgiving. Her response was that she couldn't afford Europe. Obviously nothing is perfect and we hardly ever think things will go wrong, but to have the forgiving terrain in our own country and be barred from using it is a tragedy paralleled to this one.

This is a dangerous sport. We are moving faster and faster through our progression. For some people it works and they learn fast or get lucky. The others have to suffer the ultimate consequence for a mistake. I'll miss your unyieldingly positive outlook on life Amber. I hope we can all take a step back once in a while to ask if we are 100% on our immediate decisions. Let's let rationality and self confidence (not narcissism) be the forefront in our decision making.

After 22 wingsuit fatalities last year, if we still don't think things can go wrong we deserve the BS we get from the public and our own families from high profile incidents. How you BASE jump and your choices effect others--a prime lesson in any good first jump course.

hard talus to read or not, if the spot you are aiming for is rising on you, fucking pull because you arent going to make it.

Always sad to hear about these fatalities, even though I did not know the deceased.
I know the financial situation will dictate how, when and where the jumping takes place. But everyone should ask themselves from time to time what their life is really worth. It should be simple, any "first-time" exit should leave a lot of room for error with a descent chance for correction/survival if things don't go according to plan. It is the first time stepping into somewhat unknown territory...

On a general note - some of the shortcuts and the hard charging that goes on (I am just as guilty as anyone of doing this) is down right scary. Look out for your friend and don't be a yes-man. Push safety, not fast progress. In the long run it will pay of greatly. The cliffs aren't going anywhere.

BSBD

you report an interesting decision making process.

bummer

Did she have much terminal BASE experience without a wingsuit?

Or much BASE experience at all?

http://abcnews.go.com/...r-falling-2000-feet/


This Josh Llyod character seemed to think so. Then again, he seems to be a non-jumper with diarrhea mouth.

She had hundreds of base jumps, big wall and tower experience. Exit was not the problem...

Im sorry but did you mean hundreds of big wall tracking jumps? Or hundreds of jumps, some big wall?

hundreds of base jumps. some big wall and termimal experience not sure the exact numbers

"It would not be my first choice, but even a fat old guy you know was able to get the full altitude 8 years ago, on his first WS BASE flight in 2 years. It's not a particularly short or difficult start, certainly, but it's also not Kjerag.

There was a lot of video of it on the web several years ago, under the title "Desert Flight School." I've got that video on disk somewhere, if you want to see it."

Can I find this on YouTube?

Extremely Tragic.

To my mind probably the most important fact is "First WS BASEjump ", so I would be curious as to the amount of skydiving experience on that particular suit that the deceased was jumping? I understand that it was a suit that just came on the scene in the last year or so and I witnessed jumpers with previous WS BASE experience struggle to adjust to it.
There is a recent and growing trend toward skydiving large Wingsuits and then moving into the BASE environment making first jumps on what some have called "Flying Carpets "
Recently a jumper was telling me that he would be making his first WS BASE jump soon using an Apache Rebel "? The season before last I witnessed one of the most experienced Flyers out there, struggle to adjust to that particular suit in the BASE environment, but this is the suit this particular jumper is most comfortable skydiving and so, he will make his first WS BASE jump on it? I find it interesting that the last fatality of last season was also an individual making his "First " WS BASE jump, and on a suit that the season before would have been deemed "For Experts Only ".
Are we just seeing the emergence of a trend that it would seem can only have disastrous results? What happened to using intermediate suits as part of the learning progression? BASE is not Skydiving!
Something to think about? or not?

My sincerest condolences to Clayton.

Regards, B.

You're spot on, B.

Number of jumps doesn't mean poop...

Nobody makes their first wingsuit skydive on a carpet, no matter how many skydives you have.

Everybody knows it's effing nuts to jump a carpet on your first wingsuit skydive, no matter how many skydives you have.

So why do people think it's okay to make their first wingsuit base jump on a flying carpet because they have a lot of BASE jumps?

Pretty serious common sense and methodology disconnect here, yes?

Wingsuit progression in BASE should repeat the skydiving progression. No matter what wingsuit you're skydiving with, no matter how many BASE jumps you have, no matter how many terminal/big wall BASE jumps you have, when you make the your first WS BASE jump, use your first wingsuit.

You're making an effing BASE jump, for Pete's sake! The Reaper is riding your back, not hanging out over the horizon.


44

The same thing that has been happening to pretty much every other aspect of this sport over the years.
In this case she couldn't afford to travel to a safer site why would she waste money on a second suit?
Condolences to her man but this seems like another senseless tragedy.

i will respond to this as i got really lucky in a similar situation, and am still here to tell the story...

so here i was, thinking i was ready to do my first ws base jump. i had 500+ws skydives ranging from an Rbird-Colugo.

i hear stories of peoples wingsuit jumps and hear how "they just didnt get it flying" and impact a talus after a decent rock drop.

so this got me scared and thinking "i really need forward speed to outfly that talus!" or at least that train of thought.

so in my mind, what was the easiest way to get distance with a wingsuit? a large tail is the first thing that came to mind because more surface area on the tail means more GOGO juice!!! right????
WRONG!!!!

i had a talk with a good friend right before going to the exit piont, he reccomended i not take the Colugo but instead take my Rbird. He probably saved my life that night. i was of the opinion i needed a big wing to get away from the obj, but boy was i wrong..

after some thought i decided i didnt need the Coulgo for a first jump and decided to go with the Rbird.

I fucked up my exit, hit my hand on the structure right as i was leaving, dropped a gripper, went head down (almost front flipped), started a right hand corkscrew and ended up facing the tower.

i then had to turn 180 in place and hit the gas to get away from the A.
if i would have been in the colugo i probably would have had too much forward drive/surface area to have been able to turn it around so fast.

even after the fucked up exit and recovery, i still had a long flight and made it to the lz. which i never thought would have been possible in an Rbird.

i have since went back and practiced my terminal/sub terminal exits a lot more without a wingsuit. Bigger is not always Better.

[I understand that it was a suit that just came on the scene in the last year or so and I witnessed jumpers with previous WS BASE experience struggle to adjust to it.]

What suit was it?

In BASE, bigger is only better when it comes to LZs.
Every other variable there is a some kind of trade off.


Fly Free Amber
Sorry Clayton

any reason why you dont want to name make/model of suit stealthyB?

No, only that I got my information through the grapevine so I don't have firsthand knowledge and wouldn't want want to post the wrong information, however multiple sources have said it was a Colugo, and although it is reputed to be a great suit, based on feedback from experienced jumpers who have transitioned to it, they have had to make some adjustment jumps, that is why I am of the opinion that it is for experienced Jumpers and not ideal for a first WS BASE jump.

Some suits one must fly with the hips, Others , legs or Torso. It has nothing to do with a suit. Only if one can fly.
Take care.
space.

i recently saw a back and forth with 2 very, VERY experienced wingsuit pilots. one claiming they fly every suit the same, one that each suit requires a little adjustment in technique here and there. i agree with the latter but i do not agree with your statement. ive never come across a suit that resonds better/quicker/faster to hip movements and the one suit that has no stabilizers on it still responds better with shoulder inputs countered by the feet.
that said, we are all very different birds in the sky. our CG's and wing profile, even if its the same make and model, are all different. what works for 1 very well might not work for another.

What portion of the suit are you considering the stabilizers? the only thing i can think of is that new thing that phoenix fly is doing.

the feet sticking out the front of the suit without a doubt act as stabilizers. here is a pic of matt g in his x1 i believe. the auras booties are even more aggressive than this (at least from my POV when i look down behind me.) viper and v5 tails, without the fins, have nothing sticking out the front of the suit when i look down.

Several people I know have pointed out this with the V5. Very different to fly and turn with a totally flat legwing compared to traditional booties that works much like fins do.

When flying a suit with the more optimized (low drag) legwing, lacking the booties hanging underneath, you need to fly with a much cleaner technique, working with the whole tail as one surface. With practice, this allows for a lot sharper and agressive flying. But when not fully controling it, it can lead to the tail sliding a bit.

But in general, the bigger suits tend to have a bit more tail-slide due to the arm/legwing being linked, and (when using inputs that are a bit bigger) creating slightly opposite turns. As a left turn with the arms, can slightly pull on the leg, and create a right turn. Especially when lower experience people fly big suits you tend to see a lot of this slippy/slidy style flying.

With all the new designs, suits and innovations (and skilled flyers leading the way) coming out this sport is just getting cooler and cooler. Man, imagine what it will be like a decade or two down the road!

Really fast hang gliders?