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Money no object, what do you prefer and why? Found only old threads on this, wondering if things changed.

Profile/feather , Hybrid LD2/Trango , Razor/Trango , Apex TL/Flik Ultralite , Snekor/? or any other combination mix matching manufacturers, example feather/LD2.

I know they are all good, but what would you get if you where buying today?

Kind of on a related note...I've heard that WS pilots who race (WWL, WBR, etc.) use these ultralite setups for a reduced profile and drag.

That makes sense to me...but it also seems fairly intuitive that more weight would equal more speed. At least that's the case in swoop competitions...right?

Are there WS pilots out there wearing weight? Is the reduced weight of these setups offset by the gains in reduced drag? I think the ideal setup could be a low profile rig with a weight vest under the WS. Just an intuitive guess.

Sorry to derail the thread...but it seems semi-related.

Feather is my favorite ultralight canopy for sure. Nice openings, flare is better than any base canopy ive ever used, and when theres a big ol field to land in, I love to swoop them. Trango, at least the trango one I found lacking in flare, and I prefer dacron to spectra. Flik UL seems like a good all around canopy if youre looking for a one stop shop UL, but that being said ive only got one jump on a borrowed one. My dream canopy, which hopefully will be available soon, would be a vented ZP feather with dacron lines.

I like my profiles a lot, and for how light the material is, its held up extremely well over multiple hundreds of jumps. LD2 is a nice looking rig, but I dont really like the chest strap position, and at least for me it was harder to make them look pretty. TLs look nice, but the double through loop thing seems like a solution looking for a problem. Razors are fantastic looking rigs, but seem much heavier than the competitors. Snekor is a nice rig, but with the newer suits, I dont think the front mounted toggles are needed, and I havent checked, but do they work with zip in front suits like the squirrels or apache?

The feather seems ideal in the ultralight wing suit canopy category. I wouldn't be happy with it as an all around canopy, but for a strictly low profile slider up rig, it would be my first choice.

If I can get marty to build my ZP vented version, ill let you jump it tom. My vented seven is amazing all around, though its currently getting fixed after I tore the shit out of it :(

You weren't jumping with Ralph, were you? That guy seems to lead everyone into misadventures...

Haha, the incident was unrelated, but yes Ralph is full of plenty of bad ideas.

No, you cannot use the invincibility toggles with an internal harness suit.

The Snekor also allows you to stow the toggles in the normal position on the riser as well.



edited: to change 'senior' to 'Snekor'.

I'm just going to make a point to say that calling the current generation of lightweight (LW) canopies ultralight (UL) isn't really fair. I know several manufacturers do it, but because the ratios of weight differences from what is considered standard weight don't really correspond to the ratios in other, better established industries that use the same nomenclature, it's not really applicable. As an example, an UL backpacking setup will weigh a third to a quarter of what a standard setup will. That's hardly the case with the current LW BASE gear on the market. There have been a few true UL setups built, but they are not really suitable for the rigors of the typical BASE user.

On the original thread topic, I'm only experienced with the Hybrid series. I've been using them for over 8 years and have watched the product line grow and develop. I like them for their workmanship and simplicity. That is not to say the other gear is not well made. I owned a Perigee Pro and a Warlock and I never found them lacking in quality. The best way to decide which you like best is to go to a venue that has many new rigs, like Bridge Day or Lauterbrunnen and do your own side-by-side comparison. Brand loyalty runs deep in the BASE community and the answers you get on a forum will be highly skewed by that.

Sorry for the late reply, was driving to florida.

Thanks a lot for your input, and if anyone has something to add please do!

If your driving to Florida stop in and see Kathy at Morpheus. Take a look at the Razor up close or possibly wsXtreme.

a magic backpack shouldnt be compared to a lame one.
my trango 245 in a ld2 is 10.5lbs. 9.5lbs in a home made container.
my troll with "ul" material, zp nose, 3 vents and 525 dacron is 12lbs on the dot in the ld2. my standard troll 245 in a helium container with 3 rings was 17lbs!
ill never buy a standard f111 canopy again

I understand that the upcoming Squirrel ultralite rig is really pretty "ultra" in it's lightness. Stuff like reduced width harness webbing and lightened hardware. I don't have an ETA on it, but I'm very interested to see it.

I have a friend who has a Perigee with Titanium hardware and some interesting custom "light" features, too.

how much did that hardware run him?

I don't think it was cheap.

I build all of my rigs with these on as the leg strap hardware:

http://www.austrialpin.net/...ary/framebuckles.ASP

I am unsure of what squirrel is doing on their rig, but incase it is that hardware, I'm just here to say I did it first

I built a rig for richard webb with 1.5" webbing, the 1.5" cobra frame triglides as the legstrap hardware, and a 1" chest strap, using the aluminum 2 piece frame buckles seen below, and the hardware is so light, it makes going to a sewn leg loop/water knot chest strap rig pointless really.

I am working on designing a wide/tall/flat ultralight container that will be my "answer" to the LD2.

Well, here ya go
http://vimeo.com/m/86120127
http://squirrel.ws/stronglite

I had a tls +flick ul but the harness is heavy.... Now i own a snekor (you can have it cordura or parapack) , it s light, and really nice shaped on the back, like second skin!! Plus if you take legstrap allready closed , if fuckin light!!!!
I love my snekor, give it a try ( their delay are relly short)

Exactly flip, and this puts you pretty much right in the middle of multi-industry accepted standards for the term "light-weight."

And you're right, a pack that one would use for the PCT or a cross-country High Sierra traverse is totally lame. A majik backpack gets way more YouTube hits and Facebook likes.

i hucked rucks many miles for "the man." i think they fucking suck.

also, hiking gear companies have way more likes on facebook.

OK, fair point. I humped a lot of rucks too, and for the most part it was sucktastic. When I think of my Large Ruck and Assault Pack, they were the quintessential opposites of anything considered Lightweight or Ultralight. They were massively overbuilt, heavy-ass tanks. But they were also nails as all hell. They were built to have minimal failures when people were doing such happy activities as jumping onto a tarmac airfield or breaching and clearing a trench complex. A UL or LW backpack would not fair as well or survive as long under such circumstances. I agree with you: LW stuff is a hell of a lot nicer to cary. That's why I've been going that way with most of my calorie powered stuff. UL gear has its place too, but the sacrifices in durability and functionality are real. That's the key difference between LW and UL: the term "Ultralight" implies that regardless of total weight or ratios of weight, the manufacturer and user understand that the product has been -- for the sake of weight -- deliberately built very close to the margins of usability. Used UL backpacks are often held together with duct tape and usually only hold up to a few seasons of hard use. About a year ago I mistakenly contracted the shop I was working in at the time to build a UL rig instead of a LW rig as the customer had specified. The rig was badass, but it wasn't what was called for in this circumstance. So yes, there are a fair number of folk out there building some pretty slick UL rigs, but again, they're probably not what users who are taking it downtown or out to the local span, A, or dirty low cliff are going to have long-term satisfaction with. LW stuff? Sure. It looks like users like yourself and many others are getting great lifespans out of your LW rigs and canopies. It's hard to argue with that, right?

Interesting post.

A question to everybody/anybody: is the primary difference between ultralight and lightweight canopies the line selection? Both are made of the new lightweight F111-like fabric right? or are some lightweight canopies composite? (apologies for forgetting the new lightweight canopy fabric trade name).

I would say no and that it would depend on the manufacturer. Manufacturers are offering a variety of fabric and line type combinations. And the way they are categorizing their canopies doesn't appear to be very universal from one manufacturer to the next.
Also when you say composite canopies are you referring to a canopy built from two types of fabric?

You've got it backward.

Light and Ultralite are usually both done with the lighter line sets, but "light" is usually standard fabric (and lighter line set), where "Ultralite" is usually both the lighter fabric and the lighter line set.

Terminology varies by manufacturer, and some manufacturers don't offer all three build types ("standard", "light" and "ultralight").

There are also some mixes of heavy line sets and ultralight fabric available (the OSP ultralight, for example, is available with ultralight fabric and heavy lines).


And the trade names vary too. There is more than one version of the lightweight fabric in use.

I have a Trango2 and it's made of three different types of fabric. The majority of the canopy is made of lightweight F111, the center cell is regular F111, and the top-skin of the nose is ZP.

It's also has two different types of lines. Most of the lineset is spectra, but the control lines are dacron below the cascade.

The center cell is standard F111 for no other reason than broader colour choices. I don't think this is what the poster had in mind when he mentioned composite canopies.

well its still interesting that kind of composite...does the lightweight material pack differently? If thats true then maybe f111 center cell would make an easier packjob.

I was thinking lightweight bottomskin and ZP topskin would be a pretty sweet slider up canopy.

Yes the light weight material packs slightly differently. I actually find it easier to pack than F111. Full ZP top skin canopies suck ass to pack (and the ones I have jumped didn't open too nice either). Full ZP is also not much more beneficial (in flight) than the ZP nose that is offered on pretty much all canopies these days.

Same here, my trango (light material) with ZP nose is easier to pack then my F111 Troll. The ZP on the nose makes no difference in packing.

You guys are all splitting hairs.

All of the canopies in the original post are awesome.

Charley, if you were not able flare a Trango properly to land softly, you probably need to go back to the skydive zone and brush up on some skills.

BASE canopies are BIG and docile and should put you down very very soft. All of them. I can't speak for some of these new, home brew canopies, but if if comes from Apex, Asylum or Atair you can't go wrong purchase wise. You can go wrong landing wise, but that is your own damn fault.