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Your Opinion which Suit is the Best Intermediate. - GO! and Thanks!

Phantom. Best intermediate suit on the market.

I have friends with the p3 one with a t bird and I fly a pirahna. All pretty comparible. people will probally tell you swift too. I have flown with one as well.
All pretty comparible it comes down to pilot of course but mine is half the price off all the others. they have pirahna 2 now that is improved

I vote Phantom. I have heard from many different people it is the best all around suit on the market. I have ~325 jumps on a Phantom2 and Phantom3 and still love to fly mine. It is good for beginners, acro, backflying, BASE, flocking, you name it.

So do you have to Zip Out to reach your Toggles?

How does the Free Reach work exactly? I will say that feature seems beneficial.

Phantom 3!

I bought my P3 after ~200 jumps on my old R-Bird and I just love the way it flies.
In my opinion, the P3 is much better for learning how to fly, flocking, acrobatics, backflying...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXbxtDO5q8k

Edit to fix link.

i personally can't compare anything as i've only been flying the ph3. to me it is an incredible stable suit that can even provide you to well distance flights in an ease and safe manner.
the suits of other brands with no need of unzipping anything definitly are a good point in safety. BUT: if you think you do not have enough time to unzip your arms, then it's not the suit that made your flight unsafe, it's your way of flight:
- you did pull too low
- you did not separate enough from the objects

for both of this points, wingsuits originally were designed...

Very very true Points!
Thanks

In my opinion the p3 is easier to fly, less arm pressure, better for learning, its also a smaller suit than the t bird.

The t Bird will give you more performance both in speed and float. the older ones had really small inlets but i think they may have updated the inlets.

at least with the p3 you know what your ordering the t bird may change between now and when you receive it.

While I totally understand your point, I disagree, it's not just about have the time to unzip. You can immediately get on your risers and actually correct offheadings before they become line twists. In BASE I feel it's essential and I will not buy another suit that traps your arms. Shit happens, might as well leave yourself every chance you can get.

You can grab your riser without unzipping your arm in p2, just up your legs, it s work fine. And i always have time to unzip at least one arm during the opening, even in base; so it s not for me a true safety trouble...
ps: and i have friends in Tony's X... who had to unzip to grab the command when they wear "winter" clothes.

that is a big determining factor I belive on my suit I can reach toggles easily but with a bunch of layers it might make it harder. You could roll up your sleaves with you winter layers and make it a none issue. The good thing about how they built the swift is it made of spandex that will streatch through anything

There is also the issue of a zipper failure, which has been seen on manufacturers that do not use YKK zippers (not saying they can't happen on YKK, but it is more common on other zipper brands).

Yes, other manufacturers have arm cutaway systems in case this happens. However, using the arm cutaway system consumes time when trying to correct an offheading/linetwist/etc. Also, if you have to use the arm cutaway and you lose the cutaway cable and do not have spares with you, you have to find one. This can be an issue on a base trip if a friend doesnt have one or you are not near a dealer, etc.

Applying the KISS principle: A suit where you are able to reach toggles/risers immeadiately without unzipping AND can land with both arms fully zipped is a better design, in my unprofessional opinion.

With PF we tend to stick with a tighter sleeve design and cutaway. Though reaching out of a loose sleeve can work (depending on clothing worn, suit design, fit etc) in our experience the normal function of a zipper + backup option of a cutaway system is also a fully functional setup we like and love.

In the designs we've tested, a looser sleeve made a big difference in suit handling and maneuverability. Where the same design with a tighter sleeve has much more direct feedback/tension/control with the suit.
A loose or tight sleeve makes the same difference in feel and precision as flying a canopy with slack on the steering lines, hence out choice for going with a normal sleeve design.

At the moment we're testing a range of new/updated suit design at PF specifically tailored for BASE as well as several skydive specific designs. Its for sure a personal preference, and one that's up to the user with regards to what he flies, but also with PF there is also a philosophy behind the design/setup we use, and why the loose 'escape sleeve' is an idea we abandoned after the initial Venom.

The Havok

Gripperless, Easy to fly, super stable, fast starts, super easy to pull. If you can fly the suit well you will probably outfly most of the people who are rushing into their vampires.

Reaching up to your risers in a PF suit is not a problem just lift up your legs like someone else posted before. Sure the escape sleeves are nice but i do prefer the tight fit around the arm like jarno mentioned it does feel more responsive for flippy doos.

The only negative thing i found about the havoc or old pf suits was the zippers where a bit weak but it looks like they have beefed them up a bit on their newer suits.

Throwing my 2 cents on the pile:

I'm a huge fan of an arm wing that will allow you quick access to risers/toggles. I had a low pull situation 2 years ago were I lost speed after clearing a ridge, pulled, had a 90 left in a zippered straight jacket and luck was the only thing that kept me safe. "There is no margin for error in BASE" is a phrase that seems to get loosely and inappropriately tossed around. The fact is, everyone fucks up to some extent, and how we train, the gear we use, and unfortunately in some cases luck, will determine our outcome. Having instant control of my parachute after that PC goes out, for me, is the only way to go.

In regards to fit: On saturday I made 3 jumps at Brevent in the morning with only a wool shirt then jumped from the Aiguille de Midi in the afternoon with 3 layers including a down jacket, mountaineering boots and a harness and had no issues punching my hands right to the risers on opening. This is the same Aura I jumped with this summer wearing t-shirt and shorts.

Despite what I write, don't let me or any other of these other keyboard warriors convince you that this suit is better than that suit. Try before you buy, and have fun :)

Question, when you say punched threw to your risers, were you able to get to toggles? Or were you limited because of the extra clothing from where you can normally reach? Just curious As others have said I am able to reach risers in my PF suits sufficiently enough to stop what would have been line twists many times. I always noticed the "slack" in the squirrel suits from the first I ever saw one in person and I honestly thought the arms had already been stretched out (worn out) but learned that is just the design.

Yeah, I can reach the toggles. I'm usually grabbing risers high for leverage, while the slider is coming down, then pull the toggles. I haven't noticed any stretching out. I demo'd a different manufacturer's suit where the leading edge was just a single layer of neoprene type material and another suit where it was a single layer just by the wrist - both deformed and distorted the wing while diving. The three layer design seems to have fixed that problem.

This was an early model, over a year ago or more when I saw it, so could be different now. Thanks for the info