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I'm looking for anyone with experience with an ace and fox or flik or both who can give me pros and cons

I assume you're looking for a comparison of the unvented FOX and Flik? Because otherwise it's kind of an apples-to-oranges comparison (vented Flik or FOX where the Ace is unvented).


Assuming you're asking about the unvented form of each:

The Ace has much better slider down pressurization than either, but especially the Flik, which in it's unvented form has very poor pressurization.

The Flik has shorter, snappier flare. The FOX also has sharper flare than the Ace, but not by nearly as much as the Flik.

The Ace has slightly better glide than the Flik, and noticeably better glide than the FOX.

The control range on the Ace is wider than either FOX or Flik, but especially wider than the Flik. This makes the Ace easier to sink in for accuracy, but harder for most skydivers to flare (since the long flare is not very similar to the flare on a skydiving canopy).

The Ace is manufactured by Performance Designs, which matters to some people. Personally, I've never seen any quality problems on FOXes or Fliks, so that's not at the top of my agenda.

The Ace is substantially less expensive than the Flik or FOX ($1459 for the Ace 260, $1800 for the Flik 266 or FOX 265).


I am a dealer for all three of the above canopies, and own multiple examples of each.

Crazy. I have or have owned all three (plus a blackjack) and my Flik had the best pressurization (equal to the BJ IMO) and worst flare out of the bunch. But it also had the best slow speed approaches and flat turns I've ever made (4 upper control lines are the way to go).

Was your Flik vented?

The question was about Ace (unvented) so I assumed we were talking about a vented Flik.

If the poster had asked about Flik v. Blackjack I would have evaluated the vented Flik pressurization. The vents make such a large difference on the Flik that I'd consider them mandatory.

I have an unvented flick and never felt to be at a disadvantage in any of my jumping accept for one weird trait that if i popped toggles to early on slider down freefall (go and thro to about 2 sec delay) sometimes 50/50 the outer end cells swould close and ide have to pump or whatever to reinflate.

I have experienced the same on an un-vented Fox. Kinda weird telling yourself to slow down on your toggle grab.

I've experienced this on several unvented canopies. The worse the inflation, the more it happens.

You should see my Dagger 313. That thing is barely pressurized by landing off the bridge.

I've actually thought that if you are a toggle guy for object avoidance, it might be a pretty good strategy. The canopy spends so much time waffling (and not moving you toward the object strike) that you can more or less get the toggles all the way off and into your turning position before it starts to move.

You are correct that I'm try to get comparisons of non vented canopies. I have a vented flick, but would like to get something with out vents for terminal jumps and free falls over 300 feet. With 4 vents on my flick a 3 sec delay is pretty brutal. Thanks to all for the input, but it sounds like there is no clear winner here. Its nice to know i can't go wrong either way. Also curious if the partial zp topspin plays a part in your response.

A good non-vented canopy to go for is a Se7en. I haven't enough jumps yet on my troll to compare - but it handles the low stuff pretty well!

Chicago, just use your Pegasus brotha!!!

A Se7en is a good slider up unvented canopy. The slider down pressurization is very slow compared to older designs and the canopy is fast and aggressive/swoopy for small LZ's. I believe Hjumper33 has sewn vents into his seven and I'm curious to see how it performs slider down.

Damn Ghetto, you know I'm on my 9th life and I don't want to die under a dish rag! It won't even open with a slider!

You can see the seven SD inflation here: http://youtu.be/VYfbl3EksAA
You should be able to compare it to Hjumper33's vented version since this is a SL.
Ill get a vid of a MDV troll when im next out.

I'm almost certain ineed2fly has sewn vents into a Se7en as well.

~ Chris

I'm sure that Eric has seen the Se7en's slider down pressurization on many occasions in person, on HD video, and in slow motion.

We have three of them in the student gear at the school. And a Se7en 300 has been my personal primary canopy for the past year or so.

I know that ineed2fly (Nick Burden, Black Sheep Rigging) was the person that sewed the vents into hjumper's Se7en. Not sure if he has one of his own at this point.

Yes, yes I have. It was hjumper33's


https://vimeo.com/68256115

https://vimeo.com/68973925

Wow! That looks awesome. 4/7 with old style troll valves? It looks like you moved the vents forward a few inches from the B-line spanwise tape. Any reason?

Yup, I do a smaller vent with the newer style troll/osp valves now though. They are forward of the b tape because its way easier to retrofit that way. If they were on the b tapes it would require removal of the b lines as well. Apex and atair canopies are built with them on the b tapes, blackjacks have them in this position. I've vented several daggers, foxes, aces, and a seven. I've done about a dozen retrofits now. Got it down to a science now. I charge $125/vent and I'll do any number of cells, all 7 if yah want ;-P

Have your vents improved the Dagger 266's
performance in the slider-off environment?
Anyone want a deal on a vented Dagger

Well heres a vented dagger 244, so yeah, you could say theres a slight improvement


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92zCfo_TVR4

hah

That's awesome! I vented one of my old foxes picking apart the b line tapes and it was a pain in the ass. I'll try to move them up towards the nose a few inches next time. $125 /vent is a deal. I'd charge double

Yes nick did a great job on my 7 that had close to 500 jumps on it. I will say I have been trying to get Marty to do a vented 7 for a while, and I think it's close. My vented seven, before a recent incident which tore it, was the best canopy I've flown in over 1500 BASE jumps and probably at least 20 different canopies flown. All I can say is if asylum produces it, buy it

well, with my experience of 1501 BASE jumps and 21 canopies flown I will say that all the canopies are really awesome and if you Charley flies a Seven, well then I am flying an Eight.

1-up for the win!

Damn it! Foiled again!

How about a Six?

http://wraggj.people.cofc.edu/images/6cell_1978.jpg

Cue Paul to come to the party with a photo of an 8 cell canopy.

I don't have any pics of one, but they do (did) exist. Same deal as a 6 cell - the "center" lines go to the center and meet at the junction of cells 4 and 5.

Well that didn't take long

Don't forget about the Five.

Less is always more.

http://imgur.com/z8WlJ4I

Ah yes, the unvented 5 cell building escape velcro rig that is more expensive than a fully loaded vented ZP canopy and fully articulated stainless steel container with all the bells and whistles.

The first time I saw a 5-cell canopy the person did a hop and pop, well a couple of pops actually, he had a shotgun and was blasting it under canopy then cutaway. Video wasn't that cool but sounded bad ass from the ground!

The first time I saw a 5 cell canopy it was over my head. It was a converted 5 cell swift reserve that Avery loaned me for a jump into salt water. Good times...

My experience rests in a vented Flik, and a vented Flik only. I love it to death, I feel like I've been able to do some ridiculously low 180 turns to avoid objects by buying a toggle, and only buried the other one to finish the flare and walked it in just fine. Maybe you can do that better with other canopies, I don't know...but I do know that when it comes to flaring, I feel like the Flik has gotten me out of some stupid stuff I maybe shouldn't have been doing in the first place.

However, I have done some rear floats off the Perrine to practice object avoidance...there were more times than I'm comfortable with when I immediately went for rear risers, and got absolutely zero feedback, I had to pop the toggles, pump the brakes and eventually bury a toggle to get turned around. Kinda weird phenomenon that I'd like to keep looking into. But, I'm still kickin.

Usually that's a result of the brakes being too deep. The whole wing starts to stall and you get no turn response.

i did some object avoidance drills too, and the rear-risers work for me better than the toggles; i just practised that in real life the other day..

out of curiosity, and out of the experience around here, and the moab 180-thread to boot, why do i get better results on rear-risers than on toggles!?