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Fly or Die , ie extended flying too close to terrain to get a canopy open, while flying at or near max flight .

What do people think about this fly or die stuff. ?
Do you actively advocate it ?
Are you a regular 'fly or dier" ?

The reason i'm interested is cause on my 102nd tall wally, I got myself into a fly or die situation quite unintentionally. A number of factors got me there, a below average exit, camera target fixation (looking up ), downdraught (shady mountain side.) chasing a faster flyer ....a self created clusterfuck that nearly killed me. 20 seconds of knowing I had to make it to clear air or die.
Afterwards I felt like the biggest fool on the planet.
The footage is tame but the feeling will never leave me .

So do you have some fly or die survival story to tell??? Or can you explain why anyone would want to do it on purpose?

I've had 3 base mates who died in "fly or die". 2 didn't even bother pitching. the other guy pitched but could possibly have flown it out.

Fly or die is it always a phuyck-up just waiting to happen???

Interested in your thoughts



ps imho Swooping down to just clear objects and then having way clear air , is not quite the same as being ina fly or die situation...and looks more like a long term way of doing things.

Yes, I had one fly or die.
I was doing vid and tracking on the subject and applied this to the delay. My usaul track was way bitchin. The back looping mofo didnt track so well. so my 8 sec call was wrong. It shoulda been a 4 sec. I am a tracker BTW.
Take care, and you seem to know.
space

Don't confuse exits/flight-paths that have "no-pull" zones that you have to plan for with errors (poor flying etc) that get you into a bad position.

The former shave any margin of error down to almost zero (especially if there are no bail-outs earlier); the latter you used your margin of error. The former require deep planning and analysis prior to the jump; the latter requires the same afterwards.

can you share the video??? would be cool to see such video without its edited EPIC TV bullshit or whatever they do now with youtube proximity flying.

I've been into this "bad position" you mentioned (exit/no-pull zone) after screwing up a technical exit in Brazil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3VtEg95pCg

I had a turn and miss situation, more like turn or die. It was a bad judgement call on my part.

Approximately 200th wingsuit base jump, 2nd day on 2nd trip of the season (october)... 40ish base jumps on my V4 since Late August, 10 jumps of this exit prior in V2 / V3 / V4... and 2nd jump of day at that exit.

What happened? I screwed up.

Read on if you like or skip to the video at the end.

Basically it was my 2nd trip, and I had not really spent enough time warming up. I did a couple jumps the day before when I arrived, and went to the site as bad weather was closing in.

I had not flown between the tree and the rock the previous jump, because I didn't like my exit and speed, so I went back up and tried it again.

My exit was ok, but I basically was flying the suit very slow, trying to float it in position. I remember knowing I was screwing up and just kept going. The alarm bell was going off in my head that it was an abort, but strangely I did not.

As I got to my desired spot, I started to go steep to get in attack mode. It was then I realized I had flown myself into a spot where I couldn't pick up enough speed to aggressively fly what I wanted. I banked away, thinking I might hit the ridge. I didn't but it was close enough for me to believe I had ended my life.

My flysight which I jumped in my pocket told the sad truth, 20mph too slow. Much slower then anything I had been flying earlier in the year... I was trying so hard to get to a spot, I flew shittier then ever and disregarded all good judgement and common sense.

Was it close? Well, I think so, and I had probably have had closer calls on some dicier and stupider jumps, but this was the one where I actively pushed past myself in my mind, and ignored my little 'no' voice.

I can give you lots of reasons why it happened, not flying well, not warmed up, target fixation, experience level, but none of them can help me rationalize ignoring my own common sense, know-better; the voice.

That was about it for me, I quit a year later. I finished out the trip and kept jumping, and even did a few trips and several jumps after that, but at that point when I stopped listening to my little voice, and crossed that line in my mind, I knew I was done. Because if I could ignore it once, it could happen again, and in Base jumping I felt that I wouldn't get away with it again.

I had a great ride and a lot of enjoyable jumps, and wouldn't trade any of it for the world. But if I was to ever pick a moment, when or why I finally decided to quit, it was this jump.... Even if I didn't quit for a year and many jumps afterwards.

_justin

http://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be

Thanks for the honesty and insight in the last two posts.

Fly or die is not an intentional situation, it's one you find yourself in when other factors occur like outlined in the posts above.
Flying for an extended time in close proximity to horizontal terrain should only ever be done against very steep terrain, and in that situation it's never fly or die, Some of the far left lines at Sputnik look like they could be getting close to the situation you describe tho.

gone are the days when people used to play it safe and fly lines that would always leave them an out.. i dont think the WS-BASE-community is on a good path. i also think the recent spike in fatalities is only the tip of the iceberg.

i really dont see why anyone would put themselves in a position that means "fly or die". what is the motivation behind that? cool footage? sponsors? some sort of dick comparison thing? i really dont get it.

it also used to be, make a solid 200 BASEjumps first before you don a wingsuit, that is if you dont have a tons of WS-skydives. make a solid 500 or 1000 skydives first before you think about BASE (i must admit, i'm one of those that doesnt have ths experience, but i also havent done a shitload of BASEjumps). oh yea, it also used to be that if you DO get into WS-BASE, maybe it's a good idea to start out with something SMALL.

maybe "common ssense" should be thaught first before a packing lesson in your FJC.

i find this trend very, very sad.

who knows, i'm just a n00b, so completely disregard my post.

hasn't the epitomy of BASE always been about individualism? Why do you say "it used to be..." like we are some sort of regulated community? It can be 500-1000 skydives before BASE or 200 BASE jumps before WS BASE...for YOU! Thats the only person you have to worry about in BASE. Obviously other people participating in the sport are not capable of taking care of themselves and are dying, but people kill themselves with drugs, alcohol, driving, and other activities every single day so that they do it with BASE is not surprising. That doesn't mean that they define BASE for you though.

Just kind of puzzled by your thinking...

peace

whoa!

Check out http://www.base-book.com/...ng-into-proxy-flying for some good advice from Matt G

Also - Thoughts on Wingsuit exits and a few WS BASE myths for some good reading

Same as the motivation behind BASE jumping at all, really. Just because you want to.

This is a recreational activity. People making money off it are the minority, and people making their whole living from it are incredibly rare. Most of the people flying hard core lines are just doing it because they want to. That's their right, and it's also part of what makes us BASE jumpers.

Should people slow down? Sure.

Do we all wish fewer people would die? Again, sure.

But realistically, the people who are _both_ interested in doing this sort of thing _and_ willing to slow down are much rarer than people who are just interested in doing this.

Wow. As being a member of the fly or die club,, that is the shizz.
Take care,
space

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies.
Mucho appreciated.

I often think it was the death of the 3rd bloke that really got me to think about flying it out rather than pitching ....thanks mate !

As a relatively casual ws'er (trailing edge not leading edge ) I've recognised this type of phuckup as being one my biggest dangers ...praps its yours too
Everyone knows the rocks are there waiting but where'd the sky go ??
Flying along thinking everythings fine and dandy when suddenly point of impact takes over , no sky , and an out requiring a sudden 45 degree plus turn.

Better to never go there

Thanx agin and sincere cheers .....you all deserve it.