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I've been looking at different canopies for my first BASE rig and come across a lot of opinions. What does everyone think about the following: general characteristics / pros / cons of each. I have asked local jumpers and they all seem to like different canopies:

OSP - terminal performance?
BlackJack - set # vents?
Troll DW
FOX - how many vents for sub and terminal jumps?
Flick - bad glide?

After reading a lot, it seems like anything base specific will do. I'm currently leaning towards a BlackJack, but am wondering about terminal versus subterminal openings on all of the above.

Also, is Multi (bridle attachment) worth it? Only Apex seems to offer this option; jumpers I've asked have had a negative opinion of it.

For containers, I've somewhat narrowed it down to considering the Helium, Apex Summit, Zak2.

Slow slider. Terminal appears to be fine. My only concern with the OSP is the glide, which is not as good as some of the other canopies on the market. Other than that (and the price, if that's an issue), the OSP is a great canopy.



Trolls and OSP's also have a set number of vents. If price is an issue (so the OSP falls down the list a bit), the Blackjack is my top choice. Lower price, good openings, excellent glide and deep brake approaches. The other area I'd prefer the BJ to the OSP is when you need the glide to reach a remote landing area.



If you can afford it, get an OSP instead. If you can't, go with the Blackjack.



I'd get a Flik instead of a FOX. The FOX is more docile, but the Flik is clearly better in glide and flare.


I'm not sure where you heard this. I own Fliks, FOXes, Aces, Blackjacks, Trolls...etc. The Flik has better glide than most of the canopies on the market (the only other contenders with it at the high end of the glide spectrum are the Ace/Blackjack and the Se7en).


The multi seems like a good idea, but I'm not sure I've ever seen it actually solve a problem in the real world. I'd probably skip it.



If money is no object, I'd pick the Summit out of those three. If cost is an issue at all, the Helium is nearly as good and much cheaper.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply

Im leaning towards BJ, containers they're all around the same price if I buy new, just that Apex / Morpheus charge extra $ for stainless while the French include it. Do you think hip rings are necessary? I have them on my skydiving rig even though I fly a tracksuit mostly, but for sitfly they're useful.. I imagine same thing in BASE for aerials.

I got several PM's too, thanks everyone for the info feel free to post it here also.

I saw a video on YouTube of a guy at Apex closing the Summit, it looks like the closing loop tension is way less than on my skydiving rig. I guess I will learn this soon enough when I do a course.

Still undecided on which course.. options are locals going to the bridge, apex (recommended by a jumper who knows me and knows apex), and also your course Tom, my Ozzie friend seems to think it's more comprehensive than Apex. Maybe you can get me some info on that.

Hello Aeroflyer,

Tom's course: 4 days instead of three. 13 or 14 jumps instead of five. Cheaper and there are many other good reasons to do Tom Aiello's course.

To be fair I didn't do the Apex course, but I know two people who did both courses and they ONLY recommend Tom A's course.

Try this article I wrote: http://www.basejumper.com/...string=SRBA;#2959795

Good luck, have fun!
Frank.

Unless something has changed over the years I would say that Morpheus containers are a much heavier build quality than any other rig on the market and should also be a point of consideration.

The biggest benefit I have found for having hip rings is for climbing around on stuff, or over hand rails an shit like that. Obviously not necessary but does make some things a little easier. I also think articulation pricing is a fucking scam (Skydive or BASE).

It may be a quality container but ZERO customer service. I cancelled my order w them because of 4 missed ship dates. 2 months to return emails. Missed my base vacation w rig (ordered 7 months ahead and was told 15 weeks at order... cancelled at 34 weeks). Order my Apex never been happier.

Plus if you tell them the size of your blackjack or anything measured in pia they will build you the wrong size container.

Definitely another consideration.

My advice would be to use a dealer who has good communication with Kathy. I know people who have tried to get in touch with her for months, but I also know that she's very easy for me to contact. I can't remember the last time it took her more than a day to get back to me on something.

Apex customer service is definitely a strong point.

The price difference can several hundred dollars once you factor in the cost of risers, stash bag, PC, and especially options. I'd recommend actually pricing up exactly what you want and comparing. Different manufacturers use very different pricing systems, so the "bottom line price" ends up quite different in some cases.

I don't think hip rings are very important. You're not in a BASE harness for nearly as long as you're in a skydiving harness. It's going to come down to personal preference, of course. You also usually don't get your money back out of options (like articulation) when you sell a used rig, if that matters to you.


It sounds like you're fairly cost-insensitive, though. If the money isn't an issue, I'd say go with an OSP (maybe lite) or a Blackjack (if you need the glide) in a Summit.

If it's a Helium, you should try swapping to the floor plate closing loop. Its not "manufacturer approved" but I can make the same Helium fit canopies down to 220 and up to 280 by just switching from top flap to floor plate and long to short closing loops. The short closing loop installed on the floor plate basically reduces the pack tray size by a third.

Everyone in SA has had good experiences with the container usually completed before the canopy, that being said my preference is still a P-Pro.

^ this, I know a few people who have trouble getting ahold of kathy, but I've never had a problem, she has always taken care of any issue I've ever had almost immediately. top notch customer service, shes even had master riggers meet up with me at her place to discuss possible design changes of certain aspects of her containers, just by me mentioning a possible issue. I will definatly do business with her again and highly recommend the helium

In my opinion, the OSP glide is not as bad as people make it out to be. While it may not be the norm, my OSP consistently out glides my Flik and I have no problem making to the same landing area's as everyone else.

This is probably the better point. It is pretty rare to have a landing area that is too far away.

Not in SA, I have a couple of fly far sights where a bad gust can change the game. My black jack (CUS) seems to out fly the others.

Hmm, well. Hip rings are definitely a scam.. any option that people can add to increase the price. But I'll probably get them.

Its true APEX is pricey.. with everything I want it comes out to around $1,400 for container, stash, only 1 PC. But the quality looks good.

Thanks for the info on morph / apex everyone.

Does anyone have a photo of the hip rings on the Helium? I don't want to get another rig with it like on my wings container, the webbing rubs together at the rings and is wearing.

My budget is maybe 3g's, but I would prefer to spend less. Helium + Troll is a deal.. $2500. But, I would prefer to get a blackjack.

http://baserigs.com/...cts/HE/details.html#

Click on "articulated harness," third from the bottom.

I have articulation on my new helium and so far I think it's great. Seems to allow for increased movement for sure. I don't foresee there being a problem with wear. Also, just a couple nights ago I used them as attachment points for safety lanyards as I climbed an object--an added utility.

+1 climbing certain sites requires more freedom of movement. I think the hip rings are worth the spend. On a terminal only rig I wouldn't bother to get them, Also great for aerials.

I'm going to disagree with this.

Anyone that has a trampoline in their back yard - and two rigs can experiment for themselves.

I have a helium and a perigee pro, both without SS articulation.

I can honestly say that for aerials, no articulation feels much much better.

Who is the actual manufacturer of the Black Jack canopy? As far as I can tell Consolidated Rigging no longer exists. Is it made / dealt by Asylum now?

Consolidated rigging does exist. Email nancy at support@crmojo.com
Asylum are a dealer for CL. Asylum make 2 canopies based on the same design: the Se7en and a light weight Se7en (feather).
Hope this helps.

PD

http://crmojo.com/

Speaking of which, anyone know when PDs actual branded canopy is set to come out?

PD is making a BASE canopy?

http://www.basejumper.com/...rum.cgi?post=2963415

ah yes according to some people in the link above they do seem to have a prototype. I am out of any loops

Im sure this is what you meant, but just to clarify, the seven and feather are the same airfoil in different weights, but they are completely different from the ace/bj airfoil.

To address some of the other OP questions, I do agree articulation is just a way to make a harness more squeaky. I have jumped articulated and non-articulated harnesses, and currently only have non articulated. I have done about every type of jump there is, and have never wished i had articulation.

For the seven/feather, the flare and toggle pressure are more similar to a skydiving canopy. On super low stuff, it does take a little longer to pressurize than an unvented canopy. I have a vented seven, and its my favorite canopy I own far and away. Ive taken it terminal wingsuiting and is snivels and is super soft, and i static line it from 140 and freefall it from 200 without any issues, and it has about 500 jumps on it.

The OSP is an awesome canopy if you just do a ton of ultra low freefall. If your only object is a 120 ft static line with a landing directly below, get an OSP, if you jump mostly 200-400 ft slider down, get a blackjack. We did an 11 way in moab where you had to outglide a ledge to make the full flight. 7 blackjacks all made it, 4 OSPs all had to land on top. I find the opening height to be close enough that if I was concerned about the difference, I would be jumping stuff that would be too low for my taste, and ive jumped 100ft on my ZP BJ.

Fliks are loved by people that have jumped them since they were new, but they probably pressurize about as bad as any full base canopy out there. Ones with vents are much better. Trolls I dont have much experience with, but seem to be just fine. My only weirdess with them is that the two different ones I jumped I seemed to need to pull down further to completely clear the brakes, but that might have just been a coincidence.

I jump asylum stuff, and I love it, but have jumped most of the major stuff out there. I agree that morpheus stuff seems about twice as heavy as it needs to be for no apparent reason. That being said, pretty much every mainstream manufacturer makes quality stuff and it comes down to personal preference.

My personal gear stable is super full right now (unfortunately due to the death of a close friend which was not base related), so my opinions are based on my current setups of Seven 260 (vented), feather 240, BJ ZP 260, Troll MDV 265, ACE 260, Trango 245, and Feather 220. If I had to have one canopy that I would order today to do everything, id probably try to get ZP feather 260 and put some vents in it.

Of course! It took me to read that again to see that one

How did you vent your seven? Sounds interesting.

With a pair of scissors ;-)