Basejumper.com - archive

 

I would be very surprised if we won't see wide spread ban on wingsuiting in some places in Europe before end of next season. Pretty funny reading all the basihing on new jumpers on the forums when the fact remains that most of fatalities are highly experienced jumpers who pushed to hard. But it's not only that, this year really saw all the ethics of base thrown out the window for few youtube clicks. Lets take "Epic TV" web series for a example, I think their movies can sum up whats going on in this sport and what some experienced jumpers show to the world.

-2 very experienced jumpers day blazing everything they can for entertainment of the masses .
I agree, fun to watch but if I was a jumper in that area I would be pissed. Great example for upcoming jumpers! You can dayblaze whatever you want as long as someone is filming you and your sponsored.

-1 jumper who documents his dream of jumping Brevent
All fun and games but after watching few short episodes it just seems soooo easy to do and all it takes is crossing of some check list of "things to do" before he finally moves on to a super technical jump that has a lot of eyes on it after few people going in. It tries to make it look like a one summers project before moving to a next one. Oh, publicly admitting that he took few short cuts when it comes to the amount of skydiving preperation really helps too. Sure, "everyone is different" as he wrote in the comments, but in the age of every motherfucker on this planet thinking he deserves everything without putting in work and that he is a unique snowflake, stuff like that can be a great excuse for their fast approach to the sport "XXXX did it and he is allive, I'm special too, I will be fine".

-Heli base 74.
Great event, amazing group of wingsuit pilots. I just don't understand why EPIC TV has to take all that amazing footage and edit it in a dramatic way to turn in almost in to some sort of MTV reality show. Interviews with jumpers are cut short, clips of the flights are cut so much you don't see more than 5 seconds of a un-edited material and so on. The worst part was ofcourse Mark Suttons fatality during that event. Maybe I am weird but that episode left a very big distaste in my mouth. It was not the fatality itself that was the worst, it was the whole "lets stick a camera in to Tonys face, see what he has to say 2 minutes after witnessing his good friend go in". Big-brother type of SHIT TV. If all the jumpers put their own footage together and edit some type of documentary or something I'm pretty sure it would be 10 times better.

I understand that jumpers want to chase their dreams and making money on jumping helps with that but you guys should value yourself way more than that. Then there is a fact that many people look up to you so be carefull what kind of messege your sending to the world with your "projects". I respect all of those jumpers above for what they did in this sport, for their flying abilities and so on, I just can't wrap my head around this attention-whoring that exploded this year.

I know this post changes nothing, just a opinion of someone watching very carefully from a side for over 5 years now. Stop shitting where your eating, all that stuff you guys are doing now won't be possible (or at least it won't be as easy) when some of the most popular spots ban jumping. And it will happen if this keeps on going. And shit like EPIC TV won't help you gaining back your access to the valley or Alps, that's for sure.
(I know my english is horrible and I'm slightly drunk, flame on)

Read the comments. People seem to think that the article is a piece of sensationalist crap. I am quite surprised by my fellow 'Landsmaennern und Frauen' for reacting like that

+10^1000, thanks Lukasz

Here, sponsored & wanna-be are killing the sport. And now they do that with the help of EpicTV witch look worst than red Bull (if it's possible !)


Good choice, one of the most sensible exit point here But it's easier for an asshole, there is a cable car to go to the top !


Heli BASE is jumping from an object after an heli ride. Jumping from an heli is skydiving .. this crap has nothing to do here ...

 

It is only sensationalist writing. The more comments the writer gets, The more value points his article gets. It doesnt mean that the article has any merit, is true or anything. It is about the number of editions sold. I read the article and it is quite clear the author has not done his homework. He is confusing wingsuiting with BASE jumping just for starters.
Take care one's self and dont worry about such crap journalism.
space

It seems, that i read some different article. The author is well informed and it is about 22 fatalities this year. You can close your eayes, aers and everything like the three monkeys and blame the article to be sensational or you can accept, that this is a quite objective and well researched article.
The base community should realise such articles as warning signals for the freedom of this sport and should not ignore it.

The comment about mixing up wingsuit and base is ridiculous. Sorry, but there is no point to downgrade the article only for this "slightly unsharp" naming of the sport.

My point of view.

I don't think Epic tv did anything wrong, the reason is was dramatic is because Mark died. Maybe they showed Tonys reaction because that is a normal way to react to tragedy, base can make you almost immune to that as things get back to normal so quickly.

As for the Brevent documentary, I was supprised that the guy was being advised on how to go from zero to jumping Brevent in 12 months by some very experienced guys, I thought good advice would be to leave that jump until you are far more experienced.

It's not epic tv writing the scrip, they are just showing the reality of modern wingsuit base to the world.

Sorry, maybe I'm doing you wrong but if you think the writer was well informed you don't understand much about wingsuit flying either... When you read the article it shows that the journalist has not done any research about the sport. He probably took some existing articles, looked at the bfl and wrote this without talking to a single wingsuit pilot... He is a sensational press copycat, to lazy to do some research for himself!

For sure he is not an active wingsuit base jumper, but how relevant is that? For any article out there about any issue, you will find some super experts, who know the things even better.
The point is, that the number of accidents has reached a level, that the media woke up. It is absolutely irrelevant, what 200 active jumpers think, in relations to hundreds of thousands of people reading this article.
The article is way better researched, than 99% of the accident articles in the newspapers and that is enough to be little "dangerous" for the legal base sites in german speaking europe.

 

There is a recipe to avoid headlines... STOP DYING!
Try it. Please.

Micke
Team Bautasten of Sweden

>There is a recipe to avoid headlines... STOP DYING!
Try it. Please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMJXvsCLu6s

It is absolutely irrelevant, what 200 active jumpers think, in relations to hundreds of thousands of people reading this article.


Talk me through this?

Partially informed people's opinion is no basis for a constructive conversation

It would seem you have an interest in this article as you have been lurking on here since 2011 and these are your first posts?

So, the journalist questions why M.S. is not on the BFL.
Do you know why?
Tell me.
Take care,
space

because James Bond cannot die

If any administration in europe will decide about the legality of basejumping, they will not care, that some people here in this forum believe, that the author of this article is translating wingsuit base jumping incorrectly to german.
And in democratic countries, a minority of 200 people will also have not that big voice.

@space: Is this a test? Come on.. stay on topic

I wouldn't think they would care about the people on this forum, but why would they care about this story? Wouldn't they look into themselves? Or is the author that highly regarded, this story so accurate and the readers so astute that the administration has no choice but to listen?

And again any reason these are your first posts?

For the same reason that Dwain Weston isn't in the BFL either.

The journalist should have think about it before saying that the BFL is incomplete...

Yes freddy3, this is a test. I want to know who you are. Take it to PM if you wish.
Take care,
space

Same discussion as always...

So I was contacted by a journalist in front of the WWL a few weeks ago... That guy was from a serious newspaper and he wanted to have informations..
We talked a lot and emailed even more...
After all, we both were convinced that we both learned something..
He had more real informations about our sport and I´ve learned again what the regular people think we are doing..

Difference to that guy from SPIEGEL-Online:
that journalist tried to gather first hand informations and inside views. Not just copy, paste and rearrange facts until they fit into the storyline..
Of course, his article will not feed the masses with flat topics and uncorrect details.

Well, that SPIEGEL-Online thing will be another piece of crap, we are upset from.. More or less...
If someone´s attitude is that kind of journalism, we are not able to correct that..
It´s sad, because in the past, the SPIEGEL has been a guarantee for facts, not fiction...

Well, that must be in our head... :
Next time someone goes in, another newspaper-guy, a tv-station or official will display the weirdness and danger-seeking suiciders that we seem to be in their eyes...

So what is the difference between a guy jumping from Sputnik and going in while trying to fly through the crack, or another guy jumping from a heli and trying to fly through the crack?

Wingsuit proximity flying has very little to do with 'skydiving' in my opinion. Aren't we just lying to ourselves saying that M.S. accident was a 'skydiving' accident?

+1
Even if the journalist wants to make some valid points about wingsuit flying being dangerous, it's a peace of crap because the way it is written, every base wingsuit jumper realizes after reading 2 or 3 lines that the journalist did not do any research. He just copied from other news and made his own conclusions without ever talking to a wingsuit jumper.
The sad thing is that a wuffo does not know this and will make his conclusions built on an article of a lazy journalist and the wuffo will judge us based on this.

In my opinion there's no difference. A proximity flying accident is more base-related than skydiving-related.

But the inventors of the BFL decided that they will not report fatalities of people jumping from aircraft. So if DW and MS are not in the BFL, it's because they doesn't meet the criteria to be in.

Ignoring that and suggest that the BFL isn't accurate or complete is one of the many dishonest methods that this journalist used to discredit us.

This journalist is smart : he's not lying at any moment, but he shows only what he wants to serve is opinion. Like when he prefers to show the fatalities of the 90 last days instead of showing the statistics of the year, just because "15 fatalities in 3 months" sounds more hardcore than "22 fatalities in 10 months".

It's not a press article, it's a prosecution document (or a "lampoon" according to wordreference... sorry I'm french so I don't always know what I'm writing :D )

 

+1

...as graded by someone who is a long-time journalist. Most of them are either lazy or driven by deadlines to the point that they skimp on research, etc --

And don't be surprised by Spiegel -- look at the horrific stuff put out every day (or suppressed every day) by the US "mainstream media."

They make the Soviet-era Pravda and the current North Korean "media" look independent by comparison.

As for the spectre of sheer incompetence... as a friend of mine said many years ago after the local media totally, completely and utterly bollixed up the reporting of a jump I made from a building to promote a novel I wrote:

"The scary thing is: If they can screw up a simple BASE jump story that badly, how badly are they blowing it when it comes to important things?"


44

The event was called Heli Base and not Heli Skydiving for some reason. Everything else is just definition. and in my definition, MS is missing on the list.

Well, instead of screaming how stupid, one sided, communist all journalist are, maybe is better to think how to get them to think and write differently . Every fool has opinion (on both sides) but opinion, once is on the paper , TV or internet does the job. Positive or negative job. Same as BASE community does the same , positive or negative.
BASE is more exposed than ever before so the mistakes or success of BASE community will be commented more than ever and result of all that we going to feel more than ever as well.
Very simple.
Shall BASE take the path which was common 10 years ago or shall BASE community going to hit the show , sport or circus is the time to decide about now.. Both ways aren't really possible

so true!

Hi Robi,

I wasn't screaming about anything, so I'll take it that you meant the thread in general.

The problem with your idea that "maybe is better to think how to get them to think and write differently" is that there is an old saying in journalism (and not just in the very young USA ) that "if it bleeds, it leads."

That means the bloodiest stories get the most coverage and that means that the routine exhilarating excellence we usually show almost never makes it on the news, much less leads the news. Only when we make furrows in the earth do we get coverage.

Second is the fact that most reporters are "general interest" reporters, which means that they routinely get sent out to do stories about people and events about which they know very little. Add the daily-news deadline pressure and that means the chance of story errors goes through the roof even for stories about common subjects. Add in the complexity and exotic nature of BASE (compared to "common" subjects) and the chance of accurate stories goes down the drain.

Some of the inaccuracy is due to individual laziness or personal agendas, but a significant part of it is due to systemic structures and processes.

These structures and processes pre-date not just wingsuiting but aviation itself. They have not changed in centuries and show no evidence of significant change any time in the near future.

And that means that your end-of-post counsel is an exercise in futility: The bottom line is that no matter what we do, we will be essentially ignored when everything goes right -- and splashed across the headlines when something goes wrong and we scatter ourselves across a mountainside.

Ergo, both screaming at journalists or trying to change their thinking is like complaining about the weather: Nothing will change no matter what we say or how we say it.


44

 
The event was called Heli Base and not Heli Skydiving for some reason. Everything else is just definition. and in my definition, MS is missing on the list.
Fair point but the naming of one event does not define base jumping.

If you jump from an aircraft you are skydiving.

Then why don't you volunteer to take over the list and do all the time and work it takes to maintain it, for free, in the face of people sniping at you for not doing it the way they think it should be done?


44

Robin, I hit wrong reply button . Instead to subject I hit replay to your comment. What I wrote is meant to be to general , not to you.
Damn it , but again you came out with Looooong answer :)

It's yooooooour fault. You always make such thought-provoking comments.


44

So tell me mr. herr spiegel (freddy3), In which month did M.S. die BASE jumping? You havent passed your test yet.
Take care,
space

The skydivers can't decide whether it is BASE or skydiving either. As a result, it is recorded in neither place.

First, I´m no Wingsuiter at all...
Second, for us a jump from a Heli with flying through the crack is not Base.. For the rest of the world it is... They don´t divide between leaping from fixed objects or from an aircraft while using BASE equipment and playing around in the BASE-Universe..
Third, I´ve read a comment thet indeed it is a difference.
Stating that entry-points, shadows and moving targets are not similar to a jump, starting from a cliff..

Well, that´s slightly off-topic but perhaps brings us closer to the view of the pedestrians....

im confused, are we questioning weather a jump from a heli is a BASE or skydive?

Firstly,
It doesn't matter how poorly the article is written or whether or not the article is a piece of shit. The fact of the matter is that wingsuiters have been going in at an appalling rate (we should all be able to agree on this). It was only going to be a matter of time before members of the public began to speak out against it and any one that expected otherwise is an idiot. p.s. Not directed at Mikki_ZH.

Secondly,
I made a bunch of BASE jumps with MS over the years. And guess what, none of them started in an aircraft in the sky.

Thirdly,

Yep. And that reason is because Skydiving simply does not have the same promotional value as... ta dah Epic TVs "HeliBASE74" wow wow wow look at me over here look look look.

This is so funny!
Does it really matter if wingsuiter jumped from door frame of an heli or plane or the cliff if the jump end as the terrain flying fatality ?!
Insisting on this and pointing at this as the prove of writer stupidity is stupid
indeed!
Better is to check the trend and accept were the WS sport goes. reality is that heli and plane are in use more and more in order to get better and better lines ( number of cliffs are limited ) Face it that the argument that this or that jumper can´t be ´´our´´ cuz it was the heli jump is poor and lame, especially in the eyes of the spectators. Same spectators whom we try to sell our fantastic new sport saying that this is BASE, this is Skydiving and this is for instance Heli-BASE!!
It is the ALMOST same game with 100% same consequence if things goes wrong!

my german is limited to ordering a beer, so i didn't read the article...what i did read were the names and dates. holy shit.

Hi Robi,
Though I am not clairvoyant (vidovit), I have been warning people for years to take care. As with my original post in this thread. Every loss is a big loss.
This year has had 2 more fatalities than last year. The uniqueness of which was the height of the August spike. I think if one checks the Augustes of every covered year one will see the spike due to the better weather conditions and vacation times that people see and have at this time of year.

I dont see where a non BASE jumper, freddy3/the reporter or anyone else has any business telling us our business.
The reporter was off a month on M.S. incident, The sport etc. Dont pay attention do crapsters like that.
A German wants to get a prohibition in the Euro Union on something that hasnt affected his country...

Dream on reporter. Try herding wildcats. You will have better luck than getting individual members of the Union to agree.
And dont forget. Take care.
space.