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Fatality in Portugal
Swedish BASE jumper living in Norway. Cliff jump, 100m.

Swedish link:
http://www.expressen.se/...29-aringens-dodshopp
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Re: [MickeN] Fatality in Portugal
It's possible that this is of no relevance to the fatality in question, but the cliff I am familiar with at this location (which is shown in the link) is actually a sub 200ft to impact jump. The rock talus slopes away very steeply after opening allowing a short but relaxed flight to a gentle touch-down on the beach. But all said and done, it's still a low free fall that has little margin in it.

No disrespect intended and no assumptions made, I just felt that the stated 100m altitude (which is probably correct from exit to landing) might mislead in the discussions that invariably follow and it might be be helpful to nip any misconceptions in the bud before they blossom.

I will now slope off back into retirement and leave you good folks to it.
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Re: [sabre210] Fatality in Portugal
Although a good point to bring up, it would appear that the height of the object wasn't of relevance in this incident other than to make an assisted deployment the wisest option.
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Re: [sabre210] Fatality in Portugal
Any heads up on what went wrong?
despite this jumpers age he were werry current in the low envioment.
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Re: [Faber] Fatality in Portugal
http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/wiki/bfl-207

Info about incident on bfl

EDIT: clicky
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Re: [Faber] Fatality in Portugal
Absolutely, jumper error, my good friend!, so sad, one of the dumbest mistakes I've ever seen,...he fucked up,...I can't believe this,.. I am in shock,.. so avoidable,....
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Re: [StealthyB] Fatality in Portugal
Any info on the PCA'er. Were they an experienced jumper or was it a non jumper who was told to 'hold this' and let go when the canopy opens? It's hard to believe a fellow jumper could miss such a mis-routing of the bridle when they are so perfectly placed to spot such an error.
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Re: [sabre210] Fatality in Portugal
sabre210 wrote:
Any info on the PCA'er. Were they an experienced jumper or was it a non jumper who was told to 'hold this' and let go when the canopy opens? It's hard to believe a fellow jumper could miss such a mis-routing of the bridle when they are so perfectly placed to spot such an error.
True!
The deceased and PCA'er had been jumping regularly together and sharing that responsibility with each other, so I would say he was experienced.
Ultimately the responsibility was with the deceased.
A tragic lesson to not become too complacent in this sport, I have seen a person on the edge of a cliff with the same misrouting, and have been told of at least one other example which was barely noticed before exit.
It is not appropriate to try to find fault with the PCA'er in this incident, ( he is traumatised and this will likely remain with him for the rest of his life ), as I said, Ultimately the responsibility was with the deceased.
Regards,B.
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Re: [StealthyB] Fatality in Portugal
Was the PC in the BOC before he put the rig on or was it un-stowed?
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Re: [jools] Fatality in Portugal
I could only imagine he was packing the rig and then thought as he is packing it to just stuff the pc in the boc because the intention was on the edge to pull it out and be pca'd ike many times before and not realising it was misrouted while laying on the floor..

It was early morning good light and winds were good..

I feel sorry for them mostly for the pca'er who is now feeling the guilt of the issue..

BSBD ..

this week has been rough for many people 3 in a few days is never good for the sport ..

Frown
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Re: [MBA-PATTO] Fatality in Portugal
Very unfortunate and sad, for both the jumper and the fellow jumper assisting.

It would be useful to know what were these two jumpers' habit of checking their own gear before giving the PC to the assisting jumper, and the assisting jumper's habit to check jumper's gear before giving the jumper a go. If there was, and why on this occasion it did not happen.

Also, was there a habit of not uncovering the bridle from the PC to the first pin? This can, when gear checks are not properly done, lead to false illusion of bridle being free, even when routed around the lateral.

I do not blame the guy assisting, the decision to jump is always the jumper's. He should be sure the rig is in right order to jump before giving the PC to the assistant, and to ensure the assistant knows how to check the gear before giving the jumper a permission to go.

Vesa
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Re: [StealthyB] Fatality in Portugal
StealthyB wrote:
It is not appropriate to try to find fault with the PCA'er in this incident, ( he is traumatised and this will likely remain with him for the rest of his life ), as I said, Ultimately the responsibility was with the deceased.
Regards,B.

Seriously? The PCAer has his share of blame in this. Unless he had his eyes closed the entire time I can not understand how he did not notice the mis-routing. Of course it is the jumpers responsibility first, but if the PCAer was even trying to do his job then this would have been avoided.
I feel that people forget to respect the PCA. It is still a BASE jump and you are responsible for the guy going over the edge.
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Re: [Fledgling] Fatality in Portugal
D was a good friend of mine and we have done many jumps together.

Let me reassure everyone that this was a guy who was very experienced jumping PCA and static line. Jumping low stuff (usually sub 60 meters) was this guys thing really - his favorite exit in Kjerag was not the terminal cliffs, but the 100 m cliff next to the camping, to the amusement of all his friends.

With that said what happened saddens me deeply and I cannot understand or imagine how or why this happened, given that this jump was right up his alley, a kind of jump he has much previous experience with.

With a black rig and black bridle (which D jumped) I can see how the guy doing the PCA could have failed to spot the mis-routing, in the same way I can see how D himself missed it. I do not blame either of them, instead I just see this as one of those tragic accidents where all circumstances clash leading to a fatality.

Rest in peace.
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Re: [bjrn] Fatality in Portugal
Bjrn I remember I saw him only a few weeks back and he kept saying how he loved jumping eagles nest and I replied are you serious man:) Wink

we have this 3280ft cliff and we can track along its beautiful walls and it lets us run it all the time...

he smiled and said I don't like terminal shit I love low and dirty..

in a way he had found his love for jumpingin the same valley I am in love with just that he enjoys the small stuff and I enjoy the big stuff..

BSBD to him

be safe out there guys
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Re: [StealthyB] Fatality in Portugal
I appreciate how sensitive an issue this is, i genuinely do, and I imagine his buddy is utterly devastated by all this, so please be assured I choose my words carefully here and not without great consideration.

The ultimate responsibility always lies with the jumper. Period. I agree.

But this incident will, whether you, I or the person in question, likes it or not, stand as a cruel, harsh testament to the fact that when you agree to PCA someone, you do more than just agree to hold their pilot chute. You become a critical link in the deployment chain, just by virtue of the fact that you have chosen to become involved. And that means checking that the bridle is not mis-routed; around the harness, around a railing, around your own ankle or wrist (regardless of light conditions, regardless of wind, regardless of pressure from the jump, regardless of lack of contrast with the gear).

I feel for the buddy, i really do, and my sympathies are with him more than you can imagine. But BASE is so unforgiving, and turns so fucking cruel, so fucking quickly that you have to check, check, check, check and then check again.

For that reason alone, i have to disagree and say that finding fault (or a better way of looking at: assigning areas of responsibility) is entirely appropriate.
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Re: [sabre210] Fatality in Portugal
+1!!

If you accept to be a part of the chain,...then you MUST accept part of the responsibility!!!
Had this been a static-line jump, and he didn't have anyone check his rigging, then the fault would fall solely on the deceased. I feel horrible for everyone involved, however, the fact remains if you are going to be the one holding a PC,....you are holding someones life in your hands, and you should treat it as such.
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Re: [Fledgling] Fatality in Portugal
Fledgling, Sabre210, Lonnie,

It was the jumper's decision to hand his life over to the person he asked to assist him.
David, misrouted his own gear, HE chose the person to assist and put the burden on that individual,.. Absolutely no one to blame but the jumper.
When all is said and done, it will be written off as a stupid way to die, and, perhaps, (there will be more distractions noted, both to the jumper and the PCA'er.,.. the Kodak/Youtube influence? ) Hopefully everyone will learn something here ,which is the purpose of this forum and discussion.
It's not that difficult to miss the obvious, as hard as that is to comprehend sometimes, we've probably all done it, but with less serious consequences.
Hard to fathom, yes,.. but don't shift the blame away from the one person that actually screwed up, ( and it wasn't the PCA'er )
YOU choose to jump, YOU set up the variables that are within your control,( including the person assisting you )... No one but YOU is responsible for the outcome!!!
Regards,B.
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Re: [StealthyB] Fatality in Portugal
+1

Even it is very good practise that the PCA'er RE-checks the jumper's gear on the backside before giving a go, you must concider yourself VERY LUCKY if he/she finds a fatal error that you did not notice.

V
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Re: [vesatoro] Fatality in Portugal
I think it's the only practise that the PCA'er rechecks.

But I don't think this should have been hard to spot.
In my opinion the PCA'er opens the pinprotection, checks the pins, pulls out the bridle that is tucked in the container.
And at this point, no matter what color the bridle or the rig is it should be visible.

But then again you can't blame the PCA'er, nor the jumper for making a misstake.
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Re: [Hellis] Fatality in Portugal
Hellis wrote:
In my opinion the PCA'er opens the pinprotection, checks the pins, pulls out the bridle that is tucked in the container.

Customs vary. I use do these things myself, as I can reach and open the shoulder and pin cover flaps, feel pins and uncover and check the bridle when wearing the rig. This way I'm sure about the condition of the rig when handing the bridle and PC to PCA'er, who of course still rechecks everything. That way the practise is the same when doing a SL jump, but with a double check.

V
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Post deleted by Treejumps
 
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Re: [bjrn] Fatality in Portugal
bjrn wrote:
With a black rig and black bridle (which D jumped) I can see how the guy doing the PCA could have failed to spot the mis-routing

I was taught to check the complete bridle before jumping. I replaced my bridle with a bright red one as I have a black rig.....but this doesnt stop a complete bridle check from pin to pilot chute before every SL or PCA for me, I also take a small torch to do a visual check at the same time.

The Exit in question is no rush and if I remember well lit up at night.

Such a tradegy, my heart goes out to friends and family.
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Re: [sabre210] Fatality in Portugal
I dont agree mate.
Im pretty much like David were, and im sorry i dont get the adventures we had planned.

David were really experienced low jump guy, he were pretty much like me, w a 900fter in the back yard i rather jump the 180ft platform than climb 900ft.

Also that lead me to often do my own gear chekups and actualy i preffere doing them my self and not 2.nd look even as it would be more clever..
as already said black rig w a black bridel and a jumper who preffer things his ways(assuming here as i didnt know him that well) i easily see how this can happens.

David were both a cool guy experienced jumper and he taught me a lesson by his fatality,cuz it could might aswell had been me dying and you pcaĆ­ng me off, by the end of the day the jumper is responsible that his gear is set up correctly.
Im rather sure the PCA-guy will blame this forever i so would,but i wont call it his mistake thats for sure... he could PCA me as the next..
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Re: [Faber] Fatality in Portugal
With all due respect Stefan, the fact you and the deceased shared a similar love for low objects over high ones doesn't have any bearing on the notion of responsibility which is being discussed here.

There seems to be some misunderstanding here. I don't believe anyone has suggested that ALL the responsibility for this fatality lies with the assistant. I don't see anyone even suggesting that the bulk of the responsibility lies with the assistant, just that SOME responsibility lies with the assistant in not checking the bridle routing when it was perfectly feasible and possible to do so.

To deny that ANY responsibility falls on the PC assistants shoulders is to deny that the PC assistant is capable of altering the course of events, which you would have to be in utter denial to conclude. If you agree that the the PC assistant could have (even if you don't agree they should have) spotted the error and corrected it, then you have to agree that logically some element of responsibility lies with them.

This post isn't about recrimination. It's not about making someone feel worse than they already do. I reiterate, sincerely, my heart goes out to the guy. It's this kind of scenario that really did give me the fear when i was jumping regularly and performing PCA's for people. It was the gravity of what i was doing, and the possibility of not doing the job well that often gave me the most fear on a jump.

This is about hammering home the FACT, the indisputable FACT, that when someone hands you their Pilot chute on a low jump, they hand you responsibility too. How so? Because you now have the opportunity and power to change the course of events. If you agree that an assistant is a capable of behaving irresponsibly with a pilot chute assist (for instance throwing the pilot chute after the jumper has exited - what we termed a freefall assist - in order to scare the jumper) then you MUST agree that they are therefore capable of behaving responsibly, and if you agree with that then you agree that an assistant carries a burden of responsibility. That's not semantics. That's not some trick, that is just logical deduction.

If you insist that the PC assistant is absolutely, unequivocally without responsibility here then it follows you have to be saying that at no point could they have altered the course of events, and if you insist on that, then there are absolutely zero lessons that can be learned from this incident from a PC Assistants point of view. No lessons can be learned here for the future!

Really? Is that really where we're heading here?
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Re: [Treejumps] Fatality in Portugal
MBAPatto had asked if it was possible that the PC was stashed in the backpad pocket. That is the only way I can see it happening.
I am of the opinion that the jumper must train the PCAr how to PCA. Even dirtdive it (Same as SL) and especially be aware of the edge factor (where the PCAr drops the PC because of fear of standing on the edge).

Not doing so is poor risk assessment/management IMHO.
To put it more simply, The jumper will be dead longer than the PCAr feels bad. Easypeasy.
Take care
space
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Re: [base283] Fatality in Portugal
base283 wrote:
MBAPatto had asked if it was possible that the PC was stashed in the backpad pocket. That is the only way I can see it happening.
I am of the opinion that the jumper must train the PCAr how to PCA. Even dirtdive it (Same as SL) and especially be aware of the edge factor (where the PCAr drops the PC because of fear of standing on the edge).

Not doing so is poor risk assessment/management IMHO.
To put it more simply, The jumper will be dead longer than the PCAr feels bad. Easypeasy.
Take care
space
As someone that is also somewhat Obsessive/Compulsive, (at least regarding BASE),especially when it comes to PCA'ing or being PCA'd, this incident is baffling.
I have seen a jumper don their gear with the bridle and PC unstowed, and misroute the bridle while stepping into the harness/container.
I think all the opinions posted are valid and we are all "scratching our heads " and wondering how this could have happened, unnoticed by the jumper, the PCA'er, and the rest of the crew, this incident will definitely go down as one of the most avoidable ever.
Don't take anything for granted in this sport.
Regards, B.
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Re: [StealthyB] Fatality in Portugal
It was early morning and a "crew" more that 2?

Were they drinking the night before?
Could alcohol be a contributing factor?
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Re: [jools] Fatality in Portugal
BASE is an individual sport. You leap off the object without checking your gear properly, the responsibility is solely with you. It's a tragedy, but it can still serve as a reminder these things happen without careful gear checks on every exit point.

It would have been awesome had the PCAer caught the error, but unless he packed the pc around the lateral, he should not be catching any scrutiny. I'm sure he, and the people reading this, have learned a deep life lesson about how important things we usually skip over are.
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Re: [Mitchpee] Fatality in Portugal
Occasionally incidents occur that should serve as a reminder and evidence that not only is the act of leaving an object a serious act, but being a participant in any form is also very serious and should be treated with the same respect as if you were the jumper.

Whether its being part of the deployment sequence as with this incident, or with being the hot girl you take from the DZ to show off to, there is some responsibility on all participants, and some risk of being witness to B ones A nd S hit E verywhere. Yes BASE is solely your responsibilyy as a jumper, however if you are a secondary participant, take your part seriously, even being on the ground watching can land you quickly into a job that involves life or death with your actions (I know several groundcrew members that have saved lives because of their actions when shit got serious).

I feel for the PCAer, that's a rough gig... Take care of yourself.
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Re: [sabre210] Fatality in Portugal
what i tried to reffere to is that some people just dont like a 2.nd weiv if they example like i are used to be on their own..
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Re: [Faber] Fatality in Portugal
As someone who does not base jump and might not need this kind of knowlege in next few years, I would still like someone to show me a picture of the mistake the jumper made, if its possible ofcourse? With my limited knowledge I can not picture the fatal mistake that was made...I can take explanation/picture as a PM if someones doesnt wanna share it out in the open (thats probably better). I just want to understand and learn from what went wrong. I have very hard time picturing that error and how it could be un-noticed by the guy holding the pilot chute :/ I feel very sorry for him, I can not even imagine how he feels right now :(
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Re: [Lukasz_Se] Fatality in Portugal
http://www.watchthybridle.com/...held-and-thy-bridle/
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Re: [snhughes] Fatality in Portugal
snhughes wrote:
http://www.watchthybridle.com/...held-and-thy-bridle/

Personally, I think picture two is terrible advice. If you use velcro, attach it at the exit point (if possible) and that will give you a chance to reach back and make sure your bridle is coming straight from the bottom pin to the velcro, and to your hand. I've been able to do this with only one hand free and getting shocked by the tower, and I'm way less talented then you other folks. Just my $0.02