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this is about known problems with equipment. (be it canopies, containers, or anything other than that)

i was initially planning on writing this as a follow up in another thread (the potato incident with the possible pinlock) but i might as well split it off right away.

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we had this discussion already in another thread, and i really cant understand the obscurity put on and being very quite about certain design weaknesses on major manufacturers gears.

im not endorsed by any manufacturer, i could not care less about anyones financial stake in this.

i would like to openly put up a list of known problems with old and new gear, major manufacturer or homegrown stuff.
theres plenty of used stuff changing its owner every day, and sometime some newbie goes in because of a problem that has been know for years, but no one wanted to post or openly state because he didnt want to take the heat from a major manufacturer.

the problem you want to send vid666 in an email, should be as widely know as that velcro rigs should have a flap that shrivels.

and where is the border between major manufacturer and small manufacturer, seems like badseed is small enough to discuss this openly?

if you look at all skydiving gear service bulletins in the past decades, wouldnt you think that the major manufacturers (upt, pdf, etc.) must be really making bad stuff since theres so many safety critical stuff on their gear? no!
it would be really nice if manufacturers would openly provide stuff like this themselves (also, or especially for their old stuff that is still out there) to let people know what to look out for.
but unless they are going to do this we should take matter in our own hands.

well said, +1!

Perhaps it's not the gear causing him to keep the video semi-private? Maybe the person in the video or bereaved family members don't want it widely shared? Perhaps he's trying to prevent object burning?

ASK HIM.

I do agree we should share our experiences and problems with gear, but maybe you misunderstood his intentions...

i wanted to discuss the need of open information on gear issues.

the said issue was already discussed personally with tom aswell (it was about gear flaws in general, and in a certain case reconstructing a pinlock on the ground with a packed rig. so no incident or object burning involved).

its about putting the finger on certain flaws on equipment that requires to name a manufacturer and type to make sense. which could be interpreted as damaging the reputation of a manufacturer.

generally i think it would be a good idea to have information about design flaws, etc collected somewhere.
first off because im personally interested in how and why things can go wrong, the longer im in this sport the more i realize how much more there is to learn, and everything that has been forgotten will most likely happen again.

BUT how far to go to not damage a manufacturers reputation?

the pin problem in the other thread is a good example, lets put up a list and detailed description of all those problems with all the rigs. as it is easy to see in the incident thread, its a highly emotional debate, and some people are completely freaked out that something like this is even possible. so this list could get easily misinterpreted as a shopping recommendation (the one with the least bad scenarios is the best)

so only few pinlock-scenarios can be generated with properly assembled and packed rig, thats kind of real good information to have.
what about issues that would arise due to wrong bridle routing?
or wrong assembly?

so one could acutually go there and put together 20-twisted-ways of bridle routing that lead to problems, just to damage a manufacturers reputation...

any good ideas on how to handle the whole thing?

I agree that this is super important especially when it comes to functionality of gear. Plenty of people have opinions on asthetics necesity of certain options, but true functionality with concern of safety should always be an open topic.

i wonder if this jumper had the bridle routed between the two pins or if he had the bridle going from top pin over the top flap to the canopy...............any idea? im not trying to hijack this thread, but from what i know there have been issues with pin locks in the past with the bridle routed over the top flap, correct?

 
I don't think I've ever seen any one in this community act in a less then open fashion. It's so fucking small that every one knows every one elses shit. Every one knows every one else or knows some one that knows them. Even the newest student is at most one step removed from the "manufactorers" who are just a bunch of jumpers that have been around a bit longer and bought there own sewing machine. And at the level you're talking about it's on a first name or at least epithet bassis. So no there are no secrets. No ones hideing any thing. No one could hide any thing. Have there been less then spectacular products built in the past? Ya. And every body knows about them and they're gone for the most part unless you find one in some ones closset. An example, there have been some PC built with the tape running the wrong way on the mesh. Not jumped any more. Gone. That's called learning. There's a big difference between the learning curve we've followed and a fundamentally defective product being produiced today. And if there are faults we are all looking for them and if we find them they will be gone. No one's hiding shit. And in this crowd no one tip toes around any bodies feelings. And there's no money. No body is in this for the money. Any body that can make a living in this industry could go and get a real job and make twice as much or do some thing else with half the risk. It is not about the money.

We can talk endlessly about the merits of one design over another, which I think is fun, but I don't think you'll hear any thing new.

Lee

you got me wrong, i dont mean that anyone is hiding anything, or has any bad intentions.

its about putting information together in one place.
the pc symetry thing is a good example, if youre right and this happened in the past and got fixed and will never happen again, why is it so much discussed on here, why am i teaching students about it?

no one has a fundamental flawed product out there, when i bought a prism1 some years, i had less knowledge about, base, rigging, anything. it took me quite a number of mails and some time to figure out what i have to watch out for, because there are no official bulletins, not even the manual were available on manufacturers website anymore.
and lets be honest, the search function on here sucks ass sometimes...


im pretty sure thats not true, maybe i should feel flattered because it implies that i know as much as you about base-rig design, but its just not the case.
im not only here for fun but also hope to learn something new every now and then, so please give it a try and hit me with some information that you think i didnt hear before.

That variation is only a possible problem for head down openings or for tracking and wingsuit. Not head high openings.

Still, I don't understand why anyone routes it over the top anymore. Between the pins seems like a way better method in all orientations.

I've been routing out the middle since the beginning. I even had Marty make me a bridle for my Perigee Pro without the velcro sandwich.

Just curious, why is routing between the pins better? Functional or aesthetic? Ive seen both and cant see advantages. Thanks
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Prevents the chance of any unnecessary tension on the top pin which has caused locks in the past.

I understand your grammar, but dont buy the rationale. Whether the bridle comes between the 2 side closing flaps, or is routed from the top, the loading on the top closing loop stays pretty much identical. If someone has a video or can support this with some data Id be interested. Thanks

It's not really about pin tension. It prevents the bridle from pulling against the top of the side flap. And I'm not so sure of that it has actually even occurred on a jump or is still just a theoretical possibility.

It actually has nothing to do with pin tension. It is to prevent the bridle from hanging up on the top edge of the side flap in the event that you fail to leave enough excess bridle there. Hence the Velcro sandwich you see on some rigs.
I'm not even sure if there are any documented cases of this happening or if it is just a theoretical problem for head low or tracking openings.

Agree, that was the wrong word choice. You descibed it correctly. I recall reading about a couple of incidents where this was thought to be the issue; indeed, not confirmed.

Bridle routing is container specific. For example, Apex advices against routing the bridle of their DP container though the middle. Other manufacturers now recommend it. If you are unsure of the safest way to route your bridle or are thinking for trying a new way, call the manufacturer and ask them first.