Basejumper.com - archive

So after month sof letters I finally got a publishing company to take on this project. And 2 local companies in Moab to stock the book on their shelves. I'm sending letters early next week to Over the Edge and Moab BASE adventures as well.

The first ever MOAB BASE guide book.

I'm looking for individuals to come forward now and help in the preservation of MOAB BASE jumping and the history of the sport.

The book will inculde a history of the sport, history of Moab and BASE jumping in Moab. The major players and stories of survival. (Maggots incident at Mary's Gash as an example

As well at a complete guide book I'm going to start going out and maping out the exits as well as approaches.

My plan is to spray paint dots and hang florescent tape from trees. (I've seen this done in National Parks) So I seriously doubt this is an issue on BLM land.

At the exit I was going to paint arrows with exit heights (350 fet +/-) instead of delay times. I think a height # is safer than delay time. This also gives the jumper the location of the exit vs. guess work

I'm looking for people to assist with the project. Once initial costs are covered (paint, travel time and publishing costs, ect...) I can't efford to pay someone for helping with the book.

Any help would be appreciated.

This is a joke right? You seriously considering spray painting the rocks? BASE isn't a do it yourself sport, if you can't find someone to show you, there's a reason.

:-(


Edit to add, I'm not against the book either... Go for it, but leave the land alone.

The book part sounds like a good idea.

The painting rocks with dots and numbers part sounds like terrible idea.

Kerkko
BASE1184

You do realise that the april fools day went already for this year? If you are serious with this, I also hope that your budget covers the tar and feathers which I hope you will be covered with by some locals after spray painting some of the first dots on the rock. Make a book and make a good one but leave the nature as it is. Leave no trace!

Part of the allure of Moab to me is that you have to know the exits, trails. If it was painted on the ground it would kill much of what makes Moab, Moab.

Great idea for the book.
Terrible idea on painting... If you can't find an exit and figure out a safe delay on your own, you have no place jumping there...

Hike the Key Hole route in Rocky Mtn Ntl Park and you will see yellow and orange Bulls Eyes marking the path to follow.

The Ecosystem in Moab is more friable than some tundra above 11k. At least people won't be wondering around aimlessly trying to find an exit like back in a neighborhood with an overhung 240 foot exit. Or stomp'n on soil around Mill Creek.

http://qkme.me/3u8t3a

Yeah and it's ugly and distracting. The popular hiking trail behind my house some dipshit sprayed little blue lines to mark the trail... Just looks like graffiti to me and graffiti has no place in the wilderness. Bothers me every time.

So, you want to make a book that anyone can buy off the shelves, showing the exact approaches and exit points in MOAB? Thus making it very easy and accessable to people who have no connections in the community (to be taken there by someone experienced), who are unprepared, underexperienced, and unequipped to be there in the first place?

Not only does that circumvent (read: slap in the face) the hard work that past jumpers have put in to opening those exits, it is asking for higher traffic, higher publicity/attention and a higher probability of an incident.

And, on top of all that, you want to spray paint the trails and the rocks?!?

This is a horrible idea that could be truly destructive to one of the best legal areas in the US.

Write your address in the book so we know where to ship the tar to ahead of time... we're going to need a lot.

You're an idiot.

Can't help thinking that this is an attempt to stir up some defiant responses on Basejumper.com???
There are almost an infinite number of BASE exits in the Moab area, so many that some newer jumpers are claiming to open exits that were jumped long before they ever heard of the area.
So how about Mary's incident at Mary's Gash?
A guide book makes some sense, but a huge undertaking, permanently marking exits would "PAINT" BASEjumping in a bad light in the community.
Regards, B.

Have you heard of self reliance and leave no trace?

So what if it's marked somewhere else? That does not make it ok. Think this through, how is making exits (some of the most beautiful places in the country) in Moab look like construction sites a good idea? You should listen to the the people on here, you might learn something...

Will you be asking permission from BLM to spray paint and hang fluorescent tape?

Or will you just assume it's Ok, and risk burning the somewhat good relationship that the Moab Local BASE jumpers have worked hard to build through assisting SAR in rescues, and rescues done without the help of SAR.

What ever happened to leave no trace?

Many exit points have Cairns along the way and at the exit point, and for some exits, there is a well worn trail.

I find it ironic that the "preservation of Moab BASE jumping" will include spray painting trail markers, exit heights, and arrows. Personally, that's the last thing I want to see in Moab. I agree with most comments left so far. Write what ever you want in a book, but leave the land alone.

I don't see my climbing friends spray painting fluorescent colored climbing routes, heights, and arrows on the face of El Cap or Half Dome.

Frankie....

thats cause there's a stellar trail to the exits on 1/2 dome and Mr. Capitan.

I'm not talking about BASE exits in Yosemite. I'm talking about climbing routes up the face.

Regardless, are you going to ask permission from BLM to paint and mark trails for BASE jumping?

Your book is the dumbest thing I've heard in awhile. Plus, stories of survival with Maggot as an example? He was hung up on a cliff and rescued via rope. Big deal.

My first reaction to your spraypainting and trailmarking idea was similar to everybody else's here. i.e. what a horrible, offensive thing to do.

You made a point that has some merit, about how the ecosystem is delicate. On one hand, there could be some big benefit to helping minimize the environmental impact of jumpers. On the other hand, I am convinced that spraypaint or hanger markers are not acceptable ways to do this.

I'm not going to call you terrible things for presenting an idea that I think is pretty flawed, to make an understatement. And I think it is good of you to try to do something to address the "gaper trails" that base jumpers unwittingly (or wittingly) make.

There are other ways to help consolidate foot traffic, besides defacing the environment we are trying to preserve. I think making cairns could be a great idea, for the following reasons:

1) cairns are an established ethic, consistent with other trail markings in that greater region, and in desert environments in general.
2) it is non-permanent
3) it is non-defacing and blends in
4) it is non-polluting
5) identifies the path well
6) similar to #1, a great many moab jumps are already marked in this manner
7) rocks are free

There are undoubtedly a number of people who would oppose any sort of human marking of a trail. I appreciate what they are seeking. But I see the other side of it too, because there is a downside to people trampling anywhere they want off trail too.

In some places it is really regrettable, how cryptobiotic soil has been trampled and vegetation disturbed. I think we are lucky that BASE is a small community or it would be a lot worse, and our community would take heat for it. What is also at least as regrettable to me, is graffiti you see in high-traffic areas (i.e. near the moonflower canyon petroglyphs), so lets not make any in the backcountry too.

As for marking exit points, there can be non-defacing ways to do this too. You know military-style dogtags? They are cheap and easy to stamp. You could stamp exit information into one, and attach it to a cairn perhaps. I'm not saying this isn't without controversy too. If you felt absolutely compelled to do this, I doubt people would tolerate anything more invasive than this.

Please don't spraypaint.

Wow! for once some reasonably polite responses to a politely placed request for input,.... are we all finally growing up? on basewhatever.com? no major personal attacks (except from that asshole,.... CLOUDTRAMP .... yeah, we did share an exit point this morning,...incredible!!!!)
I think B1361 has his a heart in the right place,...let's not lose track of the fact that Moab is a gem and a priceless resource in the BASE jumping world, especially in the USA ( not to be confused with the "land of the free").
In my humble opinion BASE 1361's intentions are naive, but well meaning,...
Moab is Moab, as the folks in Yosemite have learned, it might be better to accept the way things are than to try to change them,..
Regards, B.

i can’t wait to read the first incident report.-- Mountain biker plummets to death after following marked trail- nice

DO NOT SPRAY PAINT MOAB.
EVER. why turn base into disney?

Most entertaining thread in awhile.

There's a reason YOSEMITE has marked and mapped trails.

Many tourists visit Yosemite with their families and have no outdoor experience.

And yet these tourists still manage to go off the beaten trail and get in high rivers or loose rocks and still die. Despite all the warning and trails and PARK RANGERS.

Do you want to make the trail of easy deaths of unsuspecting people?
(exaggeration but it WOULD happen, soon or later!)

edit: spel

Hey! I resemble that remark!

Part of the beauty of BASE jumping is the major role of self-responsibility. Before you ever make your first jump, you should know not to blindly trust anyone. It's good to get into the habit of assessing things as if you were alone (I still need to work on it a bit). As a real BASE jumper, you should be able to walk up confidently to any object and not need to ask what delay to take or how you should set up for something. Obviously while you are learning that is a valid thing to do, however, if you have lots of jumps you should know how to trust yourself to open an object. Second opinions are great as well, but you should not always be relying on the information of other people for YOUR safety.

Hell, the adventure of finding an exit and scouting it out is half of the fun of BASE jumping. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have seen a lot of really cool things. I also may have a couple of broken ankles based on if I would have jumped under first impressions.

There are already so many people in Moab who are probably under-prepared to jump cliffs, why would we want to make it any easier for people to have cliff strikes? Find a local and jump with them or pay a guide like Mario.

+1

Some of the best decisions ever have come from not knowing and assessing for oneself. Guides take away from that, whether in person or on paper.

However well-intended, I think the original poster is trying to solve a "problem" that 1.) isn't as big as he thinks and 2.) is a good "problem" that shouldn't be negated by a guidebook or--worse--spraypaint and trail markers.

Now if y aheard more about the project ya might not be so upset?

And Frankie you just might earn a "honorable mention" in the book for your comment.....

You're right, there are no markings on El Cap nor 1/2 dome. I do have some friends who are gonna take a small pace up SOD and your onto something.

They were asking if they should spray paint each hook placement? or make a continious line of paint across the "Hook or Book" pitch.

I told them dots. (Not like ya can see it w/o the use of Ansel Evans telescope) Ya can't. Some of the major trade route on El Cap probably should have some markings on the hooking pitches (Coral Sea, Reticent Wall, ect...) While the more obscure routes like SG, BUBS ect... left alone.

Back to trail maintance. Soil in Moab and the desert is fragile. Very fragile. Wandering off is bad. Paint is good.

The arrows at the exit will not be that large. There is a company in town making a stencil right now that's 4inx36in. The "dots" would be about 10". Tape approx 2 feet.

Grading of exits would include hike time in / out.

XXXXXXX Bottom would be a Grade I. Due to distance from town, lack of services but also due to the easy approach.

XXXXstone would be a grade II since you have to hike uphill

Spring XXXXXX would be a Grade III along with XXXXXX nest.

All towers would be a Grade IV. and XXX Canyon (certain exits)

Each page would be in color (so you can identify the color of the paint vs the rock) Like the previous photos from above.

It's a huge undertaking. Paint is like $10.00 USD +. You want the good bright/reflective paint that will last 17 lifetimes it's not cheap. I'm out at least 200$ right now. And I was gonna only sell the book for 10$ with only a 1% profit margin.


Considering you stomp on the soil you kill 1,000+ years of growth whats a little paint?

So what you're saying is, you're going to do it anyway no matter what anyone else thinks or says because you've already paid for the paint?

 

Without making any judgement about the pros/cons of such a guidebook, what about providing exit-point GPS coordinates rather than physical marking?
Tim

What if I give "Cactus Mary" an honorable mention?
After all her canopy skills proved to be 1st class don't ya think?

BASE 1361,

With all due respect, these are monumentally bad ideas.

PLEASE reconsider before it's too late.

BASE 858
Frequent Moab jumper since 2002

Reminds me of a joke I heard about turning a profit...

A married couple both lost their jobs at the broom factory, and were having a hard time finding new jobs. Unfortunately, their mounting credit card debt required some immediate income. The wife suggested that she could whore herself out, but her husband was a little less than thrilled about the prospect. But financial necessities got the best of her, and she went behind her husband's back to go whoring. She came back one night with a huge wad of cash, and fessed up to her hubby. He was upset, but asked how much she made.
"$200.10," she said.
"Who paid ten cents?" he asked.
"Everybody."

now that was one world class bitch.

so what i was also thinking, (as long as its real low key and not visible from afar).. i think it would be a good idea to also paint some of the climbing routes to the tops of some exits, so some of us less experienced climbers know which routes are correct. you could even color code the different routes as far as grade goes. castleXXX, dragons XXXX, toy XXX, etc. people mark trees in the forest for gas lines and markers, what is such a big deal with moab?

Natural Beauty is more fragile than dirt in the desert. The amount of damage you can do with one can of paint is staggering. Think twice before you burn all your bridges west of kansas.
You realize that at a profit of $0.10 per book you{ll have to sell 2000 books just to brake even with your paint? Your base number is 1361. Do the math
If youre so eager to write a base guide to moab, why don{t you just write the damn thing and give it to friends who can give it to their friends and so on. That way, youll have more readers, fewer incidents, more money, and a little dignity.
BTW, good luck painting up the area without having to answer to the locals.

Are we talk'n about broom's or BASE jump'n.

Wrong forum

www.stickbrooms.com?

I think what we're talking about is that literally no one who has replied wants this to happen and I can guarantee that when the locals catch wind of this they will not be pleased. Please slow your roll before you close an already threatened area.

Paint is highly toxic

Also, you may also want to look into and consider how to remove paint from skin and how much paint remover is going to cost because I can see some locals spraying you with your paint if you follow through with this.

Seriously man. This is a joke right? Spray paint dots on climbing routes so people know where to hook? Are you really this retarded? Keep you paint and your "project" to yourself. Are you really such a stubborn fool as to not listen to what everybody is telling you?

If you think paint is expensive just wait until you receive the inevitable fine/jail time from the BLM.

Besides having a lousy plan that no one wants, we don't even know who BASE 1361 is. How will you write a BASE guide book and be a BASE hero without a name to back it up?

Perhaps you should read all the posts above. No one agrees with your plan.

If you're worried about jumpers damaging the soil, tell them to stay on worn trails. Pretty simple.

If you're worried that jumpers can't find exit points, there is a good reason for that. They need to bring a mentor or trusted friend who knows the area better than they do.

The current system works fine. Don't fix what isn't broke.

I can help with some personal information regarding the history of the sport. Somehow there appears to be some confusion in this regard that I hope I can clarify.

im thinking its a test to see who the gullible ones are?

Remember that 1361 is a near-local (can get to Moab in an afternoon easily) who was willing to consider a ban on BASE in Moab if it would protect the environment from mineral extraction and mechanized vehicles. He made that argument pretty clearly in the old "Moab Monument" discussion.

I'm pretty sure what he's doing here is trying to make a point about that other discussion.

I'm also pretty sure that more or less everyone is missing his point.

It would probably be more productive to discuss his underlying point (that accommodating BASE jumping isn't worth modification of wilderness area) rather than to go off on his obviously rhetorical overstatement.

Can you set up a drink station as well. Keep forgetting to bring water.

Looks like myself and a lot of the other locals will have a lot of paint cleanup to do. BASE jumpers already leave too much trash out here in Moab during their holidays. I've spent a lot of time cleaning out at Mineral Bottom. There's still a motorcycle on the talus out there from another misguided project. I don't support this guidebook in the slightest.

This HAS to be a joke? Has to be? The OP just hasn't called it out yet. But..............in the off chance it isnt wow

The guide book idea, ehh, its a norm in most outdoor activities. I guess base is/has become so mainstream a guide book is needed. But painting a trail? I use climbing, canyoneering, and hiking guide books to some very remote and not-so-remote places. NONE of them use paint to mark out a route. Things like GPS coor., landmarks, elev. changes, rock carins, etc sure seem to do the trick. Is it that you think base jumpers are so dumb they need a painted path to find a location???

Since it's been stated you are 'somewhat' of a local, I assume you have ran this by some of the locals? J and M are chill folks, what do they think?

We have around 20 locals who actually live here, finding the way to an exit is as easy as packing at the park and introducing yourself, or stop in at over the edge and someone will give you a phone number of a local who will be happy to show you the way, if I have to see paint all over the place when I'm hiking to an exit I'm going to be quite disappointed, if I see beta spray painted on the exit itself I am gonna be really saddened that this sport is coddling jumpers who can't do a rock drop or carry a laser or better yet seek out a local like they should, the book as far as recording history is an interesting idea but a guide book would remove a lot of the fun of meeting other jumpers and the exits they know, again please do not start marking this place up, if you really wanna help out donate some replacement ropes for replacement on some of the hikes,

Gatorade or water

I may have a short memory of his posts in that thread, but regardless of what his true intentions are, he is either going to piss people off with spray paint, or piss them off by trolling them. And my prediction is he will probably not be successful in either avenue.

hello, mr. BASE1361. you seem to have your priorities skewed.

why would you include “paint” as an initial cost? Are you a graffiti artist or a writer?

given the typos in your initial posts, you’re obviously not a writer. yet… you want to write a guidebook for BASE jumpers seeking to add MOAB sites to their potential objects. how much credibility have you generated for your cause?

i think not much.

first and foremost, if you feel that you have the capacity to write a book that is to be taken seriously by anyone, spellcheck and dictionary.com are your friends. i can also recommend the “little brown handbook” to help you with grammatical issues.

this might sound a bit nitpicky, but think about it...how accurate will your final product be?

i would not stake my life on it.

write your book first, you can always paint the desert later.

teresa

btw... efford isn’t a word.

stupid BASE 1361 with these ludicrous ideas. youve upset the locals, youve upset the base boards, but most of all- youve really upset mary

I wasn't the one with wanting a hydration station.

And the internet is kinda like this

So, if I understood your cryptic PM correctly, you are just yankin everybody's chain. I admit you got me real good, probably better than anyone else in a while.

If you weren't just trolling to get people riled up, tell us... is there a deeper point you are trying to make because maybe it's worth spelling out.
Thanks!

Edit: spelling

This was pretty good but I think my previous favorite still stands.

http://www.iceclimbingforums.com/...ndex.php/t-4621.html

If you're a base jumper and you can't find anything better to do than "troll" people on an internet forum, I really, really pity you.

This thread has AIDS.