Basejumper.com - archive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EITgBMc1Svg

Maybe this has been posted and discussed before, but anyways - your thoughts on the cause for these hesitations?

They were using 48 pc's going stowed. I have been taught that this alone can cause some hesitation due to the big pc size when its stowed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EITgBMc1Svg

made it a clicky

classic way to scare the crap out of the 2nd student. f@#%, ha !!

I think I would have been like, "I'm fucking going handheld."

+ 1

No doubt... Holy crap...

In my opinion, the things that contribute to PC hesitations like this are:

1) Large PC's (bigger than 42 especially), because they need more air and time to inflate.

2) Stowed PC's, because they have to unfold from a tighter bundle.

3) Low airspeed (less than 1 second delay).

4) Apex vent on PC, which allows initial airflow to escape without "popping" the PC open.

Combine all four of these and I think you're just begging for a hesitation. This seems like a really poor choice of gear/technique/delay.

Is the subtitling accurate? They are blaming it on the PC being too small?


Personally, I recommend never going stowed with anything larger than a 42.

Why bother if you are doing a go and throw anyway? And if you are taking a longer delay, why do you need a bigger PC?

The is also the temperature factor. They have ZP pilot chutes and if they did not restow them on exit, they can easily "freeze up".

I have had a p/c hesitation on one jump very similar to these two cats. 42" vented p/c, light winds and pitch right off the step. I was in free fall for three seconds before anything happened. Not a real big deal from 400' but had I been at 300' I would have been in the basement.

I have since gone to the super mushroom p/c packing method.

If you are doing <1 second delay's, it is recommended to use a bigger pc and go handheld.

If you "pitched off the step" with a stowed 42-I am not surprised it towed for a bit.

Am I missing something?

Freezing temperatures. Stowed. Low airspeed.

And do people really roll their PC when they stow it in low air speed?

I'm scarred of PC hesitations so I would've repacked it at the top when it's that cold.

I've had a few PC hesitations, each was scary.
Most of the causes have been well addressed.
The only addition I have is about holding a PC
in sweaty hand for a long time...

Before Fledgling asks WTF, I was going last
after putting off some newbies, but since I
was standing on the edge wanted to be 100%
ready just in case. Easy solution, of course,
just re-fluff your PC right before you exit.

Russians.

That explains everything.

I would never doubt that you get sweaty palms when you jump

Was gonna ask if that is the same tower that the guy towed his PC all the way in from.

Freezing temps, stowing large PC's, short delays, not refluffing at the exit point. As much as this scares you all, I can say this is most likely NOT the reason. Living here in Canada, just like Russia, we jump in freezing conditions probably 5 months a yr. Also in this area 90% of our jumps are done just like this one. Stowed 46", short delays, in freezing temps, and I NEVER repack my PC on the object. Didn't matter if it was packed that day, or a month ago! I'd like to know if these guys packed their PC's the same way, which is usually the case with local crews. They learn a method and usually everyone does it the same, or similar.

Thanks to all for such attention :)

First PC is vented 46 (I writed on video comment that it was 48, but I checked later), the second one is vented 48. We jump a lot of low stuff (85-100m) and 46/48 stowed is totally normal here. I ve been teached to jump in this way and all of people I jump with using the same technique.

I saw one PC hesitation a one year before that and it was because of PC was packed a month (!!!) before jump and it was winter. In that topic starter video all PCs were packed one hour before the jump at home. I was jumping third with vented 48 stowed and had no problem at all. True is that Im using a brand new PC.

We had a lot of arguing about what happened and my opinion it is because of quality of PCs - the first 46 PC was not getting good air on freezing confitions. I tryed it at summer and winter - difference was just amazing: when you are holding a PC in hand in summer it was trying to get bigger with air, holding the same PC in hand in winter - it is stays the same size. Hard to explane, but hope it is undestanding. And about the second 48 PC - it was just old.

I repeat, we are experienced with a low stuff objects. And it is totally OK to jump 46/48 PC´s stowed. The half of the wolrd is jumping the same way, so please do not tell that is is so wrong to do. At the end each one is choosing his own way. ;)

If you're pitching off the step, why not go handheld? Or, if you're at 400 feet, you have no pressing need to be open high and you want to go stowed, why not take a delay? In other words, why take the one option that's most likely to cause an unwanted hesitation?

Because It's cold\too lazy\You can push stronger going stowed.

Cause it's scaaaryy

It's not the same tower. Not even the same country. And not even Russians Though the language spoken in the video is russian.

Vented 46" and 48"? Didn't even know they offered that option. And stowed/vented 48", wow man! Glad you guys are all good.

Close enough

Half the World is jumping stowed, 48" vented PCs?.. I'm always the last to know...

I am starting to think that how quickly the p/c inflates at low air speeds has more to do with how it is packed rather than the size, venting etc..

Is it just me or should this object be named black death? Seems like nothing goes right there....Oh well, at least its in russia...they can live through anything.

I'm not saying you are wrong or right, but it seems from this comment that you are unwilling to hear the other side and consider ideas that are different from what you believe. Being unable to consider and accept constructive criticism is not going to help you in this sport. I certainly do not have all the answers and have made many mistakes, including one that I am still healing from, but I am willing to learn and know that I sometimes need to be told that I am being stupid.

I know and see how other people jump and always ready to learn something new if it´s reasonable, so please do not make conclusions on me. Only thing that Im saying that it is ok to jump 46/48 stowed. There is no critical difference beetween holding pc in hand (if it is not a mushroom) or pc being stowed. It is not somekind my personal crazy idea and truly majority of people on this side of ocean jumping this way (as i saw on comment people from Canada aswell). So be safe.

jesus sweet christ, what about holding a PC in a hairy palm for a long time? ive been a chronic masturbator since i was 14, am i going to die?

Now you are just jumping into conclusions based on what? What makes you think that nothing goes right there? I am not personally on that video but I have jumped this "A" going handheld and it's a friendly little "A"

PS: The object on the video of "double hesitation" is not in Russia. But I'm not that surprised that for half the world "it's all the same". Though different people and different cultures.

Blue Skies

Hmmmm. I will point out that you made a conclusion on us. It is ok for you to jump a 46/48 stowed by your own words. (Maybe in a right to left crosswind while doing a flippydo . It may not be ok for others to jump it stowed. Personally, i dont do slider off/down stowed. I dont want to complicate PC deployment with extra steps at low altitudes.
But I dont impose my limits on others. I only try to educate them as to the risks and how to proceed in a well thought out manner. As for the jump video posted, I see absolutely no benefit in going stowed on that jump. Quite the opposite. But thats just me.
Take care, and ask yourself why jumpers on the otherside of the ocean shy away from going stowed with big PCs. I really dont think that one person woke up and decided it would be cool to make up crap about going stowed with big PCs.
space

Everyone is going to make their own decisions, and decide what risks are acceptable for them. That's part of both life and BASE jumping. There's nothing wrong with that. You can be as aggressive as you want, and take whatever risks you are comfortable with. As long as you understand the risks you take, there's nothing wrong with that.

You're lucky to be alive, and here is why:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXBhD1iGcQQ
-10 celcuis, PC packed at home.

Now do you think that would have inflated in time?

Here is another frozen PC found here: http://flyingfree.narod.ru/winter08-09.html at 8:32

Sergey Viter almost got taken out by a pilot chute in hibernation, and can be seen 8:44 and from his reverse view at 8:56

RIP Sergey (not from this phenomena)

It has nothing to do with luck.
From -2C to -40C.....I've jumped in all of them. Rough guess about 500 jumps below freezing. When jumping during the winter, in cold temps, it's pretty simple. Don't pack anything in warm temperatures if it's still wet from the last jump. Or keep your gear in the colder temps while packing, and until you jump again, so it doesn't melt then freeze again once it goes back into those freezing temps.

Educating yourself is better than listening to the fear mongering.

ZP can freeze up despite all those steps. It's a property of this fabric. Is it realy that hard to restow your PC on exit?

Depends on the object. Some objects it would be next to impossible to do, and the danger of trying to repack, would be way more than if you didn't. The point I made, is that it's not necessary. Telling me I'm lucky that it didn't happen to me is just not true. If you want to repack your PC on the exit to make you feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside, then go ahead. However, lets stick to the facts. If you keep your stuff dry,....it won't freeze. If you pack a wet PC and take it into freezing temps, the possibility of it freezing in that shape, and having a delay or even total malfunction increases.

Why doesn't someone just pack a nice new dry PC in a BOC pouch...then put it in a freezer (-60 or -70C just to be sure)...then pull it out and do all this on video? If it's a property of the material then you shouldn't need a large sample size to prove one way or the other. Maybe change how long you leave it in the freezer (ex 1 day and then 1 week).

how about moisture in the air...nylon is hygroscopic? Could be sufficient maybe?

In that case, i'd recommend using a F-111(LP 0-3) PC, it tends to freeeze up a lot less(next to never).

I ment no offense by saying "lucky", but if something never happened to you personally during your jumps, it doesn't mean it's not possible.
Stay safe

Exacly That, and the fact that ZP "remembers" it's shape when left for some time(say, a week), is probably what lead to what we saw in the viedo.

+1

yeah man... Sergey was my first thought about this... i wish i had a copy of his PC video. just packing it and immediately pulling it back out of the boc and it was a brick. scary stuff.

It might depend on the relative humidity.

Which means that in a higher humidity location (or day) it might matter, and in a lower humidity condition it might not.

Did I miss something? Who built these PC's? Surely there is a difference in design and material. I have seen other videos from Russian jumpers and I am not too impressed with PC performances on those vids.