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I heard some guys say that a pc with an external handle has greater chance of entangling with the bridle to create a knotted off pc. I was just wondering if there was any evidence to support this theory. Has anyone seen a pc entanglement with a pc that lacked an external handle. I've seen one pc entanglement with an external handle. The guy was fortunate that he pulled highish and that the knotted pc created enough drag a couple seconds after he pitched.

im missing the "saw or had a pc entanglement, but handle didnt have anything to do with it", so i have to go the last option...

I have good photos of a PC with no handle clearly entangled in it's bridle. The photos are not mine, and I do not have permission to publish them, but if you want I can send you some reduced quality copies to look at.

It doesn't make since to me that an external pc would make much of a difference if any either, but the guys that I talked to were convinced, so I was curious to get some more opinions on the matter. Their logic was that an external handle is one more thing that could snag if the pc passes through a loop in the bridle on its way to extension.

Somehow related:

https://www.youtube.com/...d&v=tTIjZbvxSJg#

Good food for thought.
skyjumps;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axCeYlY_6io
BASE;
http://base-book.com/...one-of-many-pc-ideas

I've had a bridle knot itself around a tandem drogue while skydiving once. I blamed it on a weak throw that caused the drogue to linger behind me for just a short moment too long giving time for the bridle to wrap around the drogue and choke it off.
I have been jumping a Adrenalin BASE 42" PC with a plastic handle around Moab for the last few months both handheld and stowed. I feel like a weak throw will cause an entanglement before a PVC handle ever will.

I would agree with that, bc it gives the bridle the opportunity to form loops behind the jumper that the pc can pass through and potentially get choked off. This seems more likely in terminal or close to terminal type scenarios. I would love to hear from someone who thinks that external handles do make a difference. I don't wish to prove anyone right or wrong, just would appreciate the opportunity to learn others perspectives and reasoning.

I think with a good throw the zp keeps its shape the all the bridal extends from inside

At least at slow speeds

i have had a knot in my bridle twice on WS base jumps with a vampire 3. it was a 36" with external handle. never happened in any other WS in 300 jumps. not sure why and didnt have any rear mounted cameras. it was with BOC. both times the canopy extracted normally. i found it while packing.

I've seen one involving a Toxic of all things.

What makes you think that its more likely at higher airspeeds?

Because there isn't much of a burble for it to dance around in at low speeds. Why would you ask that?

With a strong throw, the PC should be out of the burble anyway.

At low airspeeds, the weak toss doesn't get any "help" from the airflow to pull it away from the jumper.

I'v also noticed that quite a few people have the habit of throwing down toward the earth, which I think is more likely to result in an entanglement at low airpseed than high airspeed, because the PC can progress further below the bridle when there isn't much airflow pushing it back up the other way.

The same line of reasoning applies for a PC that is spun during the pitch. At low airspeed the PC is more likely to progress forward into the bridle that has accidentally been pushed in front of it. At high airspeed the PC is more likely to get pulled up and away from the bridle.

I saw this a while back and have
since modified my technique...
spent a while looking at video
and practice throwing on the
ground, a few times even in
front of my large shop fan...
but more for laughs than
any purpose of science

Was it a blue and red toxic? That's the one I have photos of. It was a very low airspeed deployment.

Must be the same one. 300ft hand held or so the story goes.

 

It should also be noted that PVC handles that are attached by a singular tape in the same fashion as a hackey handle present the same dangers as a hackey handle. Haven't seen one of those outside of skydiving though.

Are you talking about BFL #119?
Because if you are, than go ahead and publish, they have already been posted in several places. Good learning material.

It's a different one. I also have the photos from #119 (and two others), and use them when I teach.

I have personally had a bridal knot during deployment.

WS - V4
BASE pouch
Standard 9' bridal
38" vented, INTERNAL handle

I fell this experience could have been attributed to a lazy pitch... never again

Has anyone on a terminal jump seen this happen with a PC that has no handle. Still appropriately sized but with a 'soft hat' like some of the manufacturers are willing to build?

yes, a strong pitch is kind of a good idea in that environment.


yes.
i dont think the handle makes that big of a difference. all the pics and vids i've seen the bridle was hitched around the PC material, not the handle.

Was wondering if you could somehow make a pocket for the bridle, while it's layered inside the PC and stowed in BOC.
Anyone ever heard about anything like that?

What about that PC in arm pouch, any news on it? Seemed like a really good idea to me. Makes it possible to stage the deployment of the PC/bridle too. I'm not a wingsuiter though. I would love to hear more about it.

Well, I don't BASE, but I seem to have had an 'issue' with one of those pvc pipes back in 2010 while skydiving.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49M8hD472_I

single point or double point attachment?

Single point.

 

> Bridle technique like in this video (Tracksuit):
https://vimeo.com/26274995

1. is the force to extract pc in case of a horseshoe higher or lower with this technique?

2. what if the bridle in boc bunches up somehow and resists extraction,, pc will just fall on your back?

I would suspect a premature container opening with the canopy coming out of the container is going to cause significant issues on a base jump regardless of bridle folding technique. I would have to guess that since it's never been tested, no body knows. You will have to take a wild ass guess yourself.

By looking at it, since the bridle is outside the PC completely, it should strip out fairly easy. But who's to say? Pack it up that way then pull on the bridle and see what happens.

Then, open the container and do the same thing as if a deployed mess of a canopy is pulling on the bridle.

Be prepared to find that handle on the flapping flap and deploy the PC clearing the horsehoe. If you're not dead, and the canopy is not malfunctioned in a big way, then you won the battle this time.

----

How is the bridle going to bunch up? If you pack it neatly, place it in neatly, then it should stay there until you pull, yes? Don't pack it like shit and it should be ok.

As a BASE jumper, what do you think?

i'm asking these q's because the traditional method of folding bridle inside pc has been tested what? 50 million times? it works except in several cases per year most of which are linked to weak toss.. so don't do dat weak toss! and horseshoes in base afaik all pulled pc out by themselves, no?

this new method? who knows,, it has been tested what? 100 times? several 100 times? not anywhere near several million of "tests" of traditional method

just trying to foresee potential issues,, not saying that they are actually there but who knows.....

Studied some film from a rear mounted "Go-Pro" concerning PC deployment and body position; the PC hesitates and can do some interesting acrobatics in the burble behind a wingsuit if an "arched" deployment is attempted. This could easily induce a knot around the PC/handle. Unlucky but hey "shit happens."
Keep a clean airflow over the rear of the suit/Rig and the PC pulls to line stretch without delay.