Basejumper.com - archive

Hey guys,
Time to renew travel insurance before the summer base season starts. Thought id start a thread to see what people use and what theyve paid as IHI no longer covers us. This stuff is usually only a couple hundred bucks, and can save your ass! If you can afford a international base trip, you can afford travel insurance.

I second the Doc.

Your mom can afford health insurance

Last year I used "Atlas Travel" and plan to use it this year also. (up to 50$ for a month) https://www.hccmis.com/...stravel/default.aspx

As far as I understand the medical is pretty much covered only the "Accidental Death & Dismemberment benefit" is excluded for BASE etc. https://www.hccmis.com/.../ReviewCoverage.aspx

Also if I remember correctly at least in Croatia you have to pay your medical first in case of an accident and they will refund it later.
Friend hurt his leg last year in Croatia (limska draga) and visited the emergency room and had to pay up front.

I took Atlas Travel HCCMIS when we visited Twin Falls for BASE jumping. They really only provided medical insurance (which did include BASE, excluding death and dismemberment) so I also bought regular travel insurance (from a different company) to cover the "normal" travel problems, e.g. missed/cancelled flights, lost luggage, etc.

i did hcc last year, was cheaper than IHI. seemed like good coverage but didnt have to use it. stinkydragon has bad breath usually, avoid him unless u are carrying tic tacs.

i used Atlas as well last fall. it was covering me for three months over my trips to Greece, Switzerland and Malaysia where you put my bones back in my skin.

i paid $75.56 for it, and they paid out close to 200k in med bills. so buy it quick before they stop covering BASE jumping!

be safe out there boys and girls!

+1

I also used HCC, paid 31.85 for 200,000 in coverage. I don't know how much my hospital bill was, but the air ambulance flight home alone was 48,800. I know another guy who used HCC and broke his tib fib on the same day I was injured. His wasn't nearly as costly, but I'm sure HCC is starting to see a pattern.

A moderator may want to remove this and some other posts from this thread, just in case the insurance agent are monitoring this forum...

HCC (atlas?) does follow this page. At leas someone of their employees posted here a while ago.

I also bought HCC. Also did not have to use it but it seemed like a good opton, reasonably priced, too.

A moderator may want to remove this and some
other posts from this thread, just in case the
insurance agent are monitoring this forum...

Actuary & Statistics are the basis for BOTH
the gambling and the insurance industries...
so I do not think big claims were a surprise.

To ensure the scheme continues working
requires as many jumpers as possible to
buy coverage and as few as possible to
actually use it.

The Insurers want to make money and
none of us Insureds want to need to use
the coverage so our interests are aligned!

HCC for me also.
They were friendly and helpful after my accident.
They were a little slow at times but came through in the end.
I didn't have to shell out for anything except physio which was refunded without any hassle.
Definitely will get HCC again.

+1 Nuke this thread.

+1 delete this thread

Just adding fuel to the fire for insurance agencies,

+1

This is why we can't have nice things.

+1
Any insurance company that has any real understanding of what they are insuring will pull cover, just like all previous companies did and will continue to do.
There are too few base jumpers let alone ones willing to pay for insurance to make this sector anything other than a black hole to burn money in.

I disagree. I'm pretty certain that the insurance companies that have covered BASE jumpers will have their own statistics already about how many claims they've had against them, the dollar value it's cost them and the income they've made from selling the policies. In other words, we're not telling them anything that they don't already know.

Like a wise man on this site once said, the trick is to have the insurance, but not need to use it.

Another quote from a famous man: "Every responsible BASE jumper should, at a minimum, carry accident and disability insurance to care for their children".

Is this site not the place to share information about the providers of insurance for BASE?

It may be that the problem with other companies halting coverage of base jumping was it is difficult to associate _revenues_ with base jumping. If I bought IHI and selected "dangerous activities" then the insurer does not know that the ONLY reason I chose them was that they covered BASE (as apposed to some other activity). Then the claims come in (which are easily categorized into BASE) and they have a mis-match in terms of revenues/liabilities.

Or it could be that insuring some of us is a sucker's bet...

Well there is approx $248,000 of insurances losses listed in this thread for a total of approx $105 dollars of revenue.

Extremely high risk activity, high potential payouts in most cases, very small market.

How ever they have done their maths, they are doing it wrong, most likely grouped the risk in with tandem skydiving or some other activity that they consider 'extreme'

I would get it while you can, like most insurance companies before, base will be specifically excluded after the net losses are calculated over a couple of years.

...and where do I get it from? I'll have a hunt on the forums, do some research...

Deleting this thread is not helpful to people like hjumper33 and other responsible jumpers.

Insurance companies have the data. You may be correct and they will probably stop covering us but until then, why not share the info?

Not necessarily... I know of at least one claim that was made as 'Fell from a height'.


Share the names of insurance companies but not the claims made against them.

Base jumping is a high risk activity. To make money on insuring jumpers the cost of insurance would need to be really high, or it will be sold at loss.

The only reason why companies are willing to insure base jumpers at affordable prices is because it's such a small impact to the big picture. But they are doing so at loss, and they don't want to do that. So when more jumpers buy their insurance, the negative impact will be more visible. So the price of the insurance would need to be higher, but then less people would buy it. Since base jumpers are a high risk minority, it's way more profitable/sane to just cut the coverage of the activity from the insurance.

What you can do is to team up with a couple of friends and run your own insurance deal. Deposit a sum to a collective savings account every month and use parts of that money when injured. Doing this together with other people gives you a better percentage from the bank too. Of course, such a deal needs to be written and a contract of how the money should be handled needs to be set up. It's more expensive, but the theory works in the long run.

Or you could just get rich and then it would't matter.

I have full comprehension of how insurance and
the underlying statistics, costs of doing business,
profit motivation, subrogation, etc. all work.

My knowledge comes from being a 40 years old
who studied it at university, in graduate school,
taught it as a professor, purchased many forms
of insurance, and used many forms of insurance.

The most educating was my motorcycle accident
where my health insurance, my bike insurance,
my short disability insurance, and the church's
liability insurance all took turns paying bills...
then of course the mediation process where
subrogation occurred.

sebcat, you definitely hit on a great idea that
I had thought of also, a BASE jumper owned
insurance company. We ALL pitch in X $$$
and build a pool of capital to cover injuries.

You are correct, rates would be higher due
to the smaller pool of insureds, however if
we had 3,000 jumpers each pay $20 per
month then we would amass $60,000
per month, and $720,000 per year.

I know $240 a year for BASE insurance is
a touch steep for some but a bargain for
others. Plus there would be no need to
lie and say we fell off the roof, bike, etc.
Nor would the jump being illegal be an
issue for us.

On the flipside, many jumpers are just
straight up cheap, do not care if they
never pay their medical, etc. so likely
be difficult to get 3,000 participants.

I on the other hand know very little about the theory and implementation of economics. I don't even have a degree in anything. Just providing reasoning for how the current situation on base jumper insurance looks and why it's a bad thing to discuss openly (i.e., more insured jumpers will cut base jumping coverage from the travel insurance. It's not the only problem of course). I replied to your post because of the color of the text, and more importantly because I read it as a counter-argument to what the guy you replied to was saying.

I think it's short sighted to rely on the current insurance system, accepting whatever company that has a good deal at the moment. So personally, I think it's a good thing to talk about this openly, because it will bring change. Positive/negative doesn't matter because when things are moving people tend to organize in order to have it their way and that's good.

I don't think the base jumper owned insurance idea scales well. What it comes down to is trust. I would gladly provide for my friends and trust them to provide for me through a deal like this. And it's more economical than donating to people when they fuck up. And if we want to we can end the agreement democratically and split the cash. After all, no one jumps forever. And maybe my regular insurance covers some of the cost, etc. But why should I finance some injured 'murican (no insult intended) that I don't know and who clearly lacked judgement (don't we all?) in the events leading up to his injury? And it's a lot of money involved. To hell with that I will say, and give my money to some anonymous investment-bank owned insurance company instead. After all, it's a lot cheaper. Then one day they will dispute my insurance claim, and I will not be able to take it to court because of lack of time and money, and then I'm in trouble.

I like these discussions, they make me think. I value basejumper.com a lot.