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Hi,

Have a question; For a sub 200´ freefall with a 48" zp pilot i have the option of useing one of two set-ups. Been trying to determine which one will be the "safest" for a 175`freefall. Pease, I am aware of the "stupidity" that goes into this so I dont need to be told. Been pretty close to this before, but at this alti, every feet counts. I have two apex DP containers. One with a Troll MDV 245 and one with a Flik 242. Both equally vented. Both packs the same. I´m about 160 pounds. My concern would be towards deployment speed and pressurization as one canopy is bigger then the other which makes the ratio for canopy/pilot cute and wingloading a little different. Not sure if it matters as I seem to be opening at the same hight with both. But It is not always easy to tell excactly. Any constructive input would be appreciated

Other than "DONT DO IT!" I dont think there is much else to say other than dont delay on the throw... Good Luck.

My lowest static line is 170 and that was a short canopy ride. Im sure you could freefall it but why not tie off?

Whats your LZ? LZ Distance from object? Terrain features in LZ? Your two wings have different flight characteristics...your LZ should play a role in your decision.

Whats the overall condition of both wings? How many Jumps on each? Water landings, holes/patches etc?

Which wing do you have more experinece with, or are more comfortable with? This should play a role in your decision.

Are you dedicated to going for toggles or risers once open?

I dont think the size difference between the two different wings would be noticable in the pressurization. I would choose the wing that Im most comfortable with, have the most experience with, and its flight characteristics fits with your LZ.

More important then which wing to jump is how your gonna exit and pitch. have you practiced this specific exit and pitch over and over again?

I would probably choose the smaller canopy just because it is lighter. I don't have much experience with those canopies, or even super low FF, but I think the PC pitch technique is going to be one of the biggest factors here.

I have a buddy who regulary FF's our static line E, his most recent one I watched was 150' to impact(250' to LZ) and he opens SLIGHTLY lower that a SL(on a Fox-xs). He has a very consistent pitch where he partially inflates the PC on exit and pitches it up so it appears to be at bridal stretch before it drop's below the exit height. Very impressive to see.

What's the landing are like?

Is their potential for object strike?

I'd probably use the Flik, but not sure without knowing more details about the jump. I'd be comfortable with either canopy--or at least as comfortable as you're likely to be on a freefall at that altitude.

Thanks for all the replies. LZ is a big grassy field about 300 feet further down from the impact point. So this is not an issue. Also, after impact the tarrain slopes downwards at a pretty steep angle. I have about the same experience on both and they are in great condition. No holes, water landings etc. Equally vented (4/7). And yes, been practicing pitch and exit. Comfortable with 200´ffs. I was experimenting with the thought of doing a running exit as this makes for a longer trajectory as to a straight vertical line. The horizontal speed also creates drag for the pc, so shouldnt this total length of traveling help with deployment? this way you already have speed right form the start. I might be wrong, but the thought did cross my mind. Any thoughts on this? :)

I have under 50 jumps so i am not providing advice but maybe the questions i ask may help you.

Isn't an equally identified size on a flik smaller than the same size on a troll? (different ways of measuring) ( i have been told by some this is true and by others it is not)

If so the flik would be significantly smaller with the difference in size and measuring.

I would imagine smaller canopy = faster pressurization.


* i could just be talking out my ass anyways but good luck.

Yes Miatoker, Trolls do run big.

As for the horizontal speed helping,
sure, image doing a jump from 200'
out of A) hovering helicopter versus
B) a fast moving King Air...

So be sure to run really fast

Anytime you can run, you should.

I'd do the running exit.

Practice the running exit and straight up pitch (to reduce PC oscillation) into a foam pit or swimming pool to make sure it's perfect before doing the jump.

Haha, maybe get some rocket skates then ;) Got my brand new 48" zp today, so when comfy i´ll go scare myself. Thanks for all imputs. Allways good with a second opinion

Just because your PC is new doesn't mean it will function properly... you may want to make a few test jumps to be sure it's not an oscillator.

and what about PC packing, which best one?

Pc packing? Are you asking about handheld technique?

yep, because i know at least 3 with minor differences but still curious which will work best.

I will most certanly not take it for a test run off a 175´E ;) But I appreciate the concern! Not attempting suicide :)

When I teach handheld, I go over 4 different PC folding/throwing methods.

Which are the 3 you know?

In this situation (low freefall), I think you're best off to hold the PC by the bridle attachment point and pre-inflate it by lofting it straight up into the air. Done properly, this should eliminate PC hesitation.

If you're not comfortable with that technique on this jump for whatever reason, my second choice would be to completely S fold the PC (mesh and ZP--nothing left out) into your hand and then throw the bundle straight up at exit.

I would not want to use the "handheld mushroom" technique (PC mushroom packed as if it were in the BOC, but held in the hand) because the hesitation rate is higher.

I don't like the mesh-only fold (where the ZP is left out of your hand) for this jump because it will be hard to deliver that bundle cleanly to bridle extension above the jumpers head, so you will be causing either some oscillation or some potential hesitation (or both).

yes and no. Smaller canopy's stall speed is greater, i.e. it needs more speed to transition from stall to normal flight i.e. it will start to fly later than a big canopy (even though big canopy will open slightly slower, it will fly faster)

So if you like landing on a stalled canopy, smaller is better, othrwise use the bigger :-)

the first one never tryed, but saw several oldschool videos with it. pretty much using like you said 'handheld mushroom' and mesh-only fold, for me it works best with mine non vented f111 48" PC.

did a couple static lines from 160 ft B and that was a short canopy ride! good luck! just thinking through it though, the smaller one will probably be extracted more quickly and get flying a bit quicker. just a thought