Basejumper.com - archive

I just found a way to save thousands of dollars and dramatically improve my quality of life!

For years, stupid me, I have been a responsible jumper, knowing my limits and not pushing in this sport too much.
For years, stupid me again, I would pay $239 (!!!!!) EVERY MONTH for a health insurance that covers BASE jumping (regardless of my many preexisting conditions, medications that I take and seasonal allergies that I have). It could’ve been half of that, if I would’ve gone with a plan that didn’t cover BASE.
For years, stupid me once again, I would pay an annual fee of $112.94 for a SPOT w/insurance (just in case I ever need a heli rescue, since SPOT subscription covers that). What a WASTE of fucking money!!!!
For that amount of saved $$$$, every one of those years I could’ve had a new rig or annual BASE trip and most importantly I wouldn’t have had to pack my rig every fucking single time (you are talking about HOURS AND HOURS of saved time).

All I had to do, was to always jump unpacked, regardless of the technicality of the jump or the winds, and if I would ever get hurt (highly unlikely) I would just put some sad pictures up on the Internet, have a friend set up a donation page for me and have all my friends (and their friends) chip in for my hospital and rescue bills (I would make sure to promote the donation page myself as much as I can). I wouldn’t even feel bad about doing it, since everyone can afford a $5 donation (price of a cup of coffee, for god’s sake). Luckily, I have 1500 ‘friends’!! And after all of that money is collected, I could always just talk to the hospital’s billing department and have my hospital debt significantly reduces (they do that if you don’t have insurance) or set up payment plans (often no-interest for 2 years), charge my credit card (thank god we live in a country where those exist) or if worst came to worst - file for bankruptcy (sucks – but I should’ve planned ahead when I chose BASE jumping/kayaking/climbing/surfing over reading on the couch). On the good note – with all that saved money, here goes another brand-new wingsuit for moi! Ha-ha, suckers! Guilt over that? Noooo way. People can’t possibly expect me to not buy life essentials like that, just because they helped me out. I mean, seriously!

The only really weak part of my new plan is that if I happen to break my back on a jump and need a wheelchair for the rest of my life or will be on life support for years to come, who is gonna cover those bills? Friends and their friends would doubtfully pay for that long. I guess there are family members… Nah, I’ll stick to my responsible life, full of packing hours *big sigh* and dignity.

So the answer to the question “Should you help a friend in need?” is “Abso-fucking-lutely!”. Maybe just not through Facebook rallies and shameless “Look at this sad picture of me, feel sorry and pay NOW” self-promotion. I can guarantee, if you happen to get hurt and need help with doing your laundry, cooking a meal and paying the bills, your real friends will, without a doubt, shop for you, bring you over a home-cooked meal and figure out a way to stick a check/$5bill in an envelope and put a stamp on it. Personally, I would give 10 times more of a donation to someone who doesn’t skip on packing before a technical jump, doesn’t jump in 15mph winds and has a health insurance, because that would be the case when shit just simply happened. In the other cases – you asked for shit to happen and now don’t want to deal with the aftermath. I guess this logic makes me an ass in the eyes of all those irresponsible people, but that is OK by me. I heard of this girl who broke her back jumping (not just a toe, a wrist or a leg) and was knitting little puppets for sale in the hospital bed to help herself with her medical bills. No donation page setup, no begging – what a way to be a responsible grown up! Makes you want to give her your last penny.

Note to those who want to do some good in this world and help out. How about donating to a family that got hit with cancer out of nowhere; to those ribs-sticking-out starving (literally) kids in many third-world countries that can’t afford even a simple flu shot, let alone pain killers; to an animal shelter that rescued a dog that’s been daily tortured, beaten up and dragged around by the neck tied to a truck by a power-hungry redneck; etc. Because cancer, starvation in certain parts of the world and animal abuse are not a choice. But BASE jumping is.

Stay safe, everyone!

“Sarcasm - it helps to keep me from telling people what I really think of them.” [unknown]

I deleted my first response because I'm going to keep to the rules of no personal attacks but why can't you post this under your real profile?

"Psuedonym's - Courage for those too afraid to talk shit to some one's face." Frankie B

I actually understand this big time...

Nice post (I will post under my own name, whoever was the writer, you should post under your real name, too many these days are hiding..)

Lets see you did miss out on ATHLETE PAGES.

I dont understand why people are putting up there own pages on facebook and stating there athletes we all jump off cliffs and bridges ,but i dont see how your classed as an athlete hahahahha..

The sport is getting very vain and i do feel sorry for them.. next we will be posting pictures of nakedness to get more friends...

Base is starting to feel GAY ..

Edit to first post , in response to a private message who has taken my post the wrong way
I would like to say my post was in response to people jumping without paying insurance (for whatever reason ) and not to attack a jumper called Jill , I can see that judging by the posts from american public it has hit a touchy subject but I am guessing it is a thread many people are keen to talk about more



Good discussion

But as I said before the original poster should of said it under the real name but now I see how much attention it has raised I guess that's why he did not

No matter the pseudonym, this is so right.

I don't know how it is in the rest of the world, but in France and in LB, insurances are really cheap (far from what you are saying) and I saw so many people refusing to pay it, considering Base Jumping is freedom and stuff.

I am so tired to see posts in Facebook or so to support someone's researches, or some hospitality fees. It is too easy to say "Fuck you all, I don't want to pay for the others paying my insurances, I know what I am doing" and them come begging to the big "Base family" when you are counting your broken bones in a foreign hospital that will not let you go out without your credit card...

I would always take insurances or take my responsabilities for my acts.

Sinan I.

you say that like it's a bad thing

Who hasnt seen my penis?

And spot fucking on.

And im a jew so i wlnt pay someones hospital bills.

The big decision now is cock implant or boob implant...

This is a great post. You should take responsibility for it though (sort of the point, right?).

Charity is a tricky thing. If you only give people what they deserve (which is rarely easy to determine), then you're not being charitable. You're simply an instrument of justice. But giving people what they don't deserve only works in the long term if the recipient actually realizes that they just got something that they didn't deserve. Otherwise a sense of entitlement builds. And entitlement breeds irresponsibility. And facilitating irresponsibility is cruel.

People make mistakes. Sometimes people don't make mistakes and bad things happen anyways. In those times, I hope that I'm first in line to help people even when they don't necessarily "deserve" my help. But as you're handing that person the proverbial fish, it's truly cruel to not simultaneously show them how they can fish for themselves the next time. They may hate you for telling them the truth, but truth is often very hard medicine.

Now everyone can continue talking about gay penises or whatever. I don't have any particular expertise on that.

Having health insurance is the difference between paying thousands of dollars vs. tens of thousands of dollars. I had a wall strike/femur break some years ago and the only difference between my retarded jump and the person you're bitching about is that I was 1) packed, 2) insured and 3) I didn't work a shitty job with shitty pay. The end result was the same. A massive bill to pay.

Having insurance doesn't mean you won't be on the hook to pay substantial costs that your plan won't cover. That's how our health care system works. FB happens to be a quick way to reach a large audience; if someone chooses to set up a donation site for their broken buddy, so what?

And yeah, BASE is totally GAY

Or the difference between thousands of dollars and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Which is a very large difference, if you stop to think about it.

Thousands of dollars the average person can deal with. Insurance brings something that most people can't handle at all down to a range where most people can sort things out. That's huge.

totally agree!

health insurance in the USA is a scam. it has never helped me. ever. i've been injured with it and without it. cost me less in the long run to not have it.

if you are a healthy (and without a large family) it's useless. IMO

overseas travel insurance on the other hand is awesome.

...I happen to like seeing roberta jump in a bikini for..I have no idea what company

I agree that American health "insurance" (and I use the term loosely, because that's not really what we have here) is a scam.


But, I did get rather severely hurt BASE jumping in 1999, and my health insurance company paid out just under a million dollars for that event. The total cost to me was $25 (for the emergency room co-pay).

I also pay a lot of money for health insurance that covers BASE. And I pay for the SPOT insurance. And I also donated some money to help Jill. I am such a saint. I am hoping to get a Nobel Peace Prize for my selfless actions.

I understand your frustration. Hopefully she will get insurance in the future so that if she has another accident, she will be covered. We'll give her a free pass this time.

lucky!

Was this about Jill or someone else? I can tell you for a fact there werrent 15 mph winds on the jump she got hurt.

Yeah, and those 1000's of dollars that get paid to an insurance company every year are great if you are on a group insurance plan. Single payers get raped in the ass though. They will find any way possible to get out of paying and BASE or any other "extreme" sport or activity is often not covered. It may be different from state to state but I have been fucked by insurance companies enough to know that they don't exactly have your best interests in mind.

And who cares about negotiating a lower price with the hospital? Insurance companies do this every day. I am pretty sure the 10oz of titanium in my leg didn't actually cost the hospital $7,500. Do you actually think an insurance company is paying that? Oh, and by the way, I didn't have health insurance either because they jacked up my automatic withdrawal... wouldn't have mattered anyway because they wouldn't have covered my motorcycle accident, even if had I paid for the coverage every month.

The Spot insurance is legit and I have great health coverage outside of the US (through non US companies), but unless you are employed by a company which provide insurance benefits, you are fucked in the US. It sucks but it is what it is.

Any yeah, I have also helped my friends when they got hurt. I even posted a few of those horrible help messages.

Let me know who you are on Facebook and I will add you to my new nude athlete page. I realized recently that there wasn't enough male nudity in this sport so I am here to party!

Often I have thought to myself, what is missing on this jump?

The obvious answer: Matt's balls.

It's remarkable how much preparation and planning can improve luck. It's not really about insurance, but I see all kinds of people who wander their way through BASE with very little thought or preparation, and then seem surprised when "luck" isn't with them.

agreed.

I agree with TA.
The insurance scam is the only Ponzi scheme thats legal.
Frome Wiki:

take care,
space

I never post on here but this thread struck a nerve. I broke my heel and back in Moab in September. I have a crap job without a group insurance plan but because I have been skydiving and BASE jumping for many years, and have seen a lot of shit, I know that I should, and do, have my own policy. When I got hurt, I never hid the fact that I did so BASE jumping.

I am all but 100% right now after a lot of doctor visits, surgery and X-rays. According to the statements that I have received from the Moab SAR, 3 hospitals, doctor's offices, etc. my injury has cost more than $60,000. Out of pocket I have paid about $2,500. To me that seems damn good and I am glad I have been paying for my insurance for the 6 months that I have not been part of a group plan. It just makes damn good sense to me. And when I have traveled to Europe, I definitely buy insurance as well. I don't know why anyone would jump without it.

In conclusion, If I gave money to the people that I know who have gotten hurt in just the past year, I'd have to sell a rig just to pay for gas money to get to Moab!

This isnt an isolated incident, just different variables, its apart of a growing trend. People go get trainedn up at perrine, feel like they can do no wrong after x jumps and then go get themselves hurt in bfe. Yes, i like most of the people that get hurt and can luckily call most of them a friend, and thats where these situations get tricky. we cant tell someone you cant do something, which is the best part of the sport. But at least get people thinking before you jump.

Grown Up,
You are obviously right.

Also, thanks for speaking the truth and keeping BASE truthful and also entertaining. Because 99% of the posts and videos on this website are so BORING I want to shoot myself in the head. Maybe thats why I'm here so infrequently. Same LAME people all day. I wish they had a life, but they don't. So sad.

anyway, thanks for the post. Keep rockin!

Just take a cup of stfu. I dont really mean that. But you are applying your standards to all. In USA, Fat chance. In Yurp. Rockon.. In USA, I would have died before they helped me. Or worked the rest of my life just to breathe . Or maybe they be cool and give the spinal surgery for free. Or your insurance covers it. Ahhhh, What about rehabilitation. 100k? I am having probs from an injury from when I was 12. I know now that it was a compression fracture in the lumbar region. Why did I not know it before? Could not afford it while step daddy was beating the fuck out of me. I won on the step daddy thingy. Nuff.
I agree with a lot of your post. But just because you can swim, it dont mean that all can.
Shall we give up our dream?
Take care,
space

Okay kids. No need for personal attacks here, but it is a valid point. I don't follow forums much but I can't keep quiet here. I'm coming at this from both sides just offering my experience to the melting pot. I consider Jill one of my closest friends and love the girl dearly, it makes me angry that someone would make a fake profile to attack/insult her. It's kicking someone while they are down and cowardly to hide behind an online alias. But yes, I do strongly believe any person BASE jumping without health insurance is downright irresponsible. I have said this many times to Jill and any one else's face that I know that doesn't have insurance. Did I still donate? Yes. Am I going to support a friend/sister/BASE family member in need? Yes.

Did she make a mistake or poor judgement call on the particular jump? Probably... Okay, have you ever made a questionable judgement call on a jump. The answer is yes... because YOU ARE A BASE JUMPER in the first place. But do what you can to protect yourself and think ahead and take responsibility. Health insurance is accessible and there are plenty of US plans that cover BASE jumping.

I had a very big and costly accident last year too, non base related but skiing related and I am still dealing with unpaid medical bills. I have health insurance. 10 grand is recoverable. 100 grand is not. That's the difference between insured and uninsured. Get a catastrophic plan for an affordable rate if you are unemployed/self employed/whatever. Be responsible.

I consider you all my family- that's what is so cool about BASE jumping. We are all nutcases and this brings us all together. Let's not divide ourselves by saying hurtful things to one another.

Cry less jump more. WTF Does it matter if a bunch of friends want to take care of their injured mate...

I don't carry insurance b/c American insurance is shit. I'd rather owe and give the big middle finger to the shit medical system we have. The situation doesn't effect you... so you crying in forums is pathetic.

Go jump. or don't... but stop posting on this site.

Way to go hero. Stick it to the man.

I don't think poor judgement had anything to do with it. It was an overhung cliff, shed done tardovers many times, there was 0 wind. 3/4 people did fine on the jump doing the same thing. Sometimes shit happens. Plenty more super sketchy things happened in Moab over that same week which involved much poorer decisions. As a guy who has been jumping longer than I've been alive pointed out to me after he was injured, "you buy the ticket, you take the ride".

If doing unpacked jumps, jumps without insurance, jumps in questionable weather or jumps we aren't necessarily qualified for makes you a dead beat then most of us are guilty I'm sure.

If you tried to get insurance and were denied would you stop jumping? I would not. Seems I read this may have been the case here.

While there is something to be said for lying in the bed that you've made, it is nice to have friends when your down.

There is a reason it's called live and learn and not die and learn.

Please tell me where you get health insurance with pre-existing conditions that covers base jumping for just $239/ month. That is really cheap.

It is highly irresponsible to base jump without health insurance.

Good thing jill has good and generous friends.

I'm sorry you think that tard overs off even the most overhung cliffs in Moab aren't a bad idea, and that something is safe because other people have gotten away with it. As much as I like Jill, unfortunately this is not her first really bad decision in BASE that she was fortunate enough to survive. I don't blame someone hiding behind an anonymous post, because no matter how true something is, for many the truth hurts and there is a segment of the current jumping population that can get pretty shitty and attack people that just want to see a little bit of common sense in this sport. JK and a recent jumping partner of hers are responsible for more hospital visits in Moab than 3 people I know who, cumulatively have around 2 to 3000 jumps and 50yrs jumping in Moab, and zero hospital visits. I would just like to see people rethink the consequences of their actions, and I hope Jill either quits BASE or takes a different approach so that we can enjoy having her around for years to come.

Sounds like a lot of hating from a coward to me...

This is so ridiculous I don't even know where to start, but whatever, here we go:
Regardless what you choose to do with your life, not having health insurance is more risky then having health insurance. Everybody knows that. So fucking what? If somebody crashed their bike and didn't have health insurance, would you rub it in their faces that your "smart enough" to have health insurance and so "sucks to be you?" You could do this to anybody who has had health crisis and wasn't insured. If you want to force everybody to have health insurance then jump on the Obamagon (but based on your insensitivity I suspect you voted for the other guy).
There's a lot more on the line when you make a jump then just money. If you think your safe from needing help just cause you have health insurance, think again. All the health insurance in the world won't protect your family from the hardships associated with a major injury.
I'd say the most important thing here is that with or without donations, Jill is still in a tough spot. Why do you care if her friends (and yes, they are real friends) throw her some cash to help out?
You must be really proud kicking people while they're down. I don't know of much that's more commendable then that.
p.s. quadruple gainers are irresponsible but that doesn't mean your friends shouldn't be there for you
___________

Hey Brenden, long time no see! Since when did you start posting on this god dang?
Why not stick to hand-held straight airs? Cause it's kinda boring. By the way, you should probably hang up your wingsuit, that seems to be the sketchiest shit out there

So, from the gistofit, You are implying that the US healthcare sys sux. . Why take it out on an individual?
Do you really think that someone would purposely injure themselves. i do like you the issue you raise. But I was the same in USA.
Sometimes, one is going pursue their dreams.
If you have never done this then blablebla.
take care,
space

Very rarely do I find my hands shaking as I type. Yes, you have pushed my buttons. Yes, I am reacting without doing much filtering. But if I ever find out who you are, I hope we meet one day so I can voice MY opinion to your face.

People are entitled to their choices. I have been seriously injured speedflying while insured. The heinous fallout from the insurance company led me to independently choose NOT to pay for any follow-on health insurance (in the US). In my experience, it's a scam for the average low income citizen. I have now been uninsured for the last 3 years and take 100% responsibility for my actions. It makes me more aware of everything I do, and I make my go/no-go decisions with considerably more thought. But I still LIVE and play hard, and I respect the mindset of those who are in the same position.

Making a donation to Jill right now... in your "name".

And just to rub it in... here's the link to donate: http://www.youcaring.com/...UMT1KBip3LU.facebook



Tom A... I'll buy you beer for the edit next time I'm up your way :)

I agree with both the original post and this one. More in terms of how many accidents Jill has had but still she serves as a "role model" being sponsored by Five Ten. Personally I respect and admire jumpers who are safe, value their lives and serve as positive examples and I know quite a few of those who jump daily without close calls. I'm just disappointed that so many people are eager to send money when it's likely that she will continue to jump recklessly and add to the bad name BASE already seems to have both in the world and in this case, Moab. I'd rather see money put towards more worthwhile causes. And yes, I'm hiding behind an anonymous name because otherwise, I'd be attacked for my opinion.

Ah, no big deal, what we face at the exit point
is way more real than any shit any of us clever
monkeys type here

I met/hung/jumped with Jill and my right leg
sports a matching zipper as hers from also
having a titatium rod inserted in my femur...

That shit hurts and is stupid fucking expensive!
Mine was from a motorcycle, I had insurance,
the church that hit me had insurance, it still
fucking sucks to have a broken femur!!

Yes, the medical industry in the USA sucks!
I'd still rather get care here than Vietnam.

I think Jill is strong enough to handle this
unfortunate injury and also strong enough
to handle people online mentiong that she
was in fact pushing it. I held her lines at
the Perrine for a jump where she had to
do a back flip over her unpacked canopy.

Sure, it was fucking awesome to watch but
way more cool to be so close to her while
she went through the mental prep for the
do-or-die aerial. More techinical than any
jump I have tried yet, but so impressive
and in this game, nothing is free, we pay
the price. It sucked Jill got hurt, I sent
her a small donation and did not even
think to ask about her insurance status.

I don't think tard overs are a bad idea in general if you understand them, set them up properly, and know their limitations. I have done probably 100+ from every type of object. Do I recommend them to people? No. Do I think they can be a very safe unpacked jump, absolutely. I prefer them to rollovers and tards for a combination of heading performance and distance gained from an object. And after taking care of Jill for the last 3 weeks and appreciating what an awesome spirit she is, you guys that have a problem with her can go ahead and fuck right off. Merry Christmas everyone!

If only we could trade the entitlement, ego, and judgement that's in BASE for supportiveness, selflessness and consideration.

I like jumping with/watching Jill. It's rare that you find a girl who surpasses most guys when it comes to talent in action sports. Therefore, I can justify helping a friend who had something shitty happen to her.

It's funny how "safety orientated" everyone is. It's BASE jumping, whatever happened to sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Everyone should be shotgunning beers before they jump, doing a redneck yell, and shooting off guns. Although, I think lighting off bombs in Mineral may be a bad idea, I would hate to lose Mary's and Monkey lips

*disclaimer* While sex, drugs, and rock and roll can be extremely stimulating, I do believe there is a time and a place for making conservative decisions. There's also a time and a place to wild out. The beauty of BASE is it's up to you to judge where that fine line is. Then if you mess up, someone will just create an anonymous internet post to have their meaningless opinion posted on an internet forum.

Big gulps huh?

welp see ya later

*edit to add a statement this thread inspired me to come up with:

"BASE jumpers are cool until there is more than one in a room."

Mitch Potter - April, 1865

Sorry for this late reply. I didn’t abandon the thread, I’m just on the road, crossing some states this week.

Some of you got the point, some missed it. Some of the things I’ve said might’ve been harsh, so I’ll try better this time.

I did not say “Every jumper must get insurance, jump responsibly, etc”. If you think insurance is a scam – don’t get/have it, you want to jump sketchy stuff – go ahead, windy or not – who cares. It’s your life. That’s why we are in this unregulated sport, so we can do whatever the fuck we want. We make our bed. The point was - when shit happens you will have to sleep in that bed. It would be a lot cushier if you prepped yourself with health and SPOT insurance, counting on friends should be the last thing you do.
It’s awesome when friends help you out. I’ve donated $$ myself on numerous occasions, I’ve carried people out after stupid decisions, I’ve given first aid to a jumper who’s name I didn’t even know, I’ve driven injured to the grocery store and have ran errands for them. Not a single regret on my end. I will continue doing what I can till the day I die. In anticipation of the smartasses question “Did you ask for their insurance before you helped?’ the answer is “No” I couldn’t have cared less. It’s not my place to tell you what to do, it’s for you to think about your actions and the consequences.
Wouldn’t it be better though, in case you are hurt, to know that you’ve done everything you possibly could to cushion your fall (pun intended)? Did Dan have a SPOT or a PLB with him when he crashed? I’ve donated to his search fund without a single regret, it was a matter of life or death, SAR refused to continue the search till they received more money. But it's not about that. If maybe he would’ve had A SPOT with him he wouldn’t have had to spend 4 days in the freezing temps risking his life. Super stoked you are still with us, dude! Once again, not my place to tell anyone what to do. I’m just hoping we can learn a lesson from every incident that happens in this sport.
BTW, to all of Dan's friends - nothing personal against him. Love the guy! Don't go and start yelling and shaking. Friends of Jill got you covered.Which wasn't about Jill either.That's why there were no names in the original post. It wasn't about just one person, but a combination of many different people and incidents. It wasn't about picking on a certain individual. I created that imaginary person to make a stronger point.

The original post was not about one single case, just prompted by a recent one.
This past year, the FB and some other sites have been flooded with the donation pages. Not just BASE, there are climbing, surfing, skiing, swimming (!!!) accidents. It seems like it was becoming a norm to have others bail you out. Not just by their friends, since they would ask all of their FB friends (which at this point the injured person doesn’t even know) to help out. Even then, it was just fine by me, the givers felt good about helping out, the receivers were humble and grateful.
However, very recently this donation biz started slightly evolving. It became such a norm, that hours after the incidents, the injured were asking for direction on how to set up the donation pages and were posting the links to it themselves. Those are the things that got to me the most. Once again, this is not just about Jill (so all of the offended friends of Jill – take a chill pill), it’s a combination of 4 different people’s posts. Sounds like she is a great person, friends helped her out, great for her, I'm sure she is super grateful, it’s water under the bridge.


That just sums it up perfectly, except it wasn't just about Jill (for the hundredth time). It’s about the future. Let’s learn from other people’s mistakes. Don’t believe in insurance scams? Create your own. Every month simply put a certain $$ amount in a coffee jar under your bed. It will be better than nothing if a bad day should come. Let’s be prepared as much as we truly can under our own circumstances and our friends will undoubtfully cover the rest.
On the dark note, think about what kind of bills you might be leaving to your relatives if you are in a coma or, godfor-fucking-bid, die. Even if the health/ life insurance is a scam, it might still reduce that huge rescue/ heli ride/ hospital/ life support/ funeral bill by anywhere from 5% to 80%. It may not be worth it to you paying those scam premiums every month, but even a 5% write-off of a potential $500 000 bill would significantly help those you might be leaving behind. Once again, a hypothetical scenario. Scary thoughts, but it’s part of being a grown up. I’ve seen family members of 2 BASE jumpers deal with the loss of their sons/brothers. The grief they were going through can’t even be described in words, now imagine their state when the bills hit. Yes, I donated $$ without being asked for it. Also, I got a life insurance shortly after that.

Now I’m going to go into a whole paragraph I was hoping not to go in (but should’ve) in the first post.
The original post was hypothetical, no signature, no names mentioned (because, once again, it wasn’t about just one person or one incident). I’ve tried to eliminate things, mentioning of which would take us to discussing a cost of snow shoveling in Egypt, while dealing with the issue of the dildo manufacturing in Ontario. Didn’t want to turn this thread into a bitchfest of “I know you and the objects YOU jump”, "Remember that time at the antenna?",“I’ve seen you jump in questionable winds”, “Next time I see you I’ll fucking spit in your face and cut off your dick”, etc and we start drifting away from the actual thread. "thecount" just proved my point with his reply to Brendan's comment. I’ve seen it dozen times when people start picking on one completely irrelevant to the thread word taken out of a 30 sentence context. Sometimes it’s entertaining, sometimes it’s downright boring.
If I was giving an advice on gear, body position or objects, then yes, you would absolutely want to know who it came from, so you can make your call on whether to listen/trust that person or not. Everything I said in the original post was just one person’s non-technical opinion (actually, 5 different people’s opinions). Knowing who said it doesn’t contribute to the topic in any way. If you have something to say that doesn’t relay to the actual thread, like “Shame on you!” & “Fuck you!”, send me a PM. Even better, to those who I know from this thread - next time I see you in the real world, I’ll bring up this post to your face and you can spit in mine, if you feel the need, and we can argue over this till we’re blue in the forementioned faces. Just don’t want to clutter this forum with irrelevant pointless bickering.

Newsflash: BASE Jumping is reckless and dangerous. Jumping off an object that is several hundred feet in the air desperately hoping for a piece of nylon to save your life - is insane.

But we all do it. We're all guilty.

A 'responsible jumper' is probably the best, most succint, oxymoron of all time.

I love when the morality police come to town.

Yawn...off I go.

I love reading this thread, I have recently gotten back to jumping my base rig, and hopefully here soon back to some base objects, but the self entitlement this forum sees, from people who i am sure who have been a part of or directly the subject of bad decisions and gotten away with it, is humorous, sometimes it could have been a bad decision, sometimes shit just goes wrong, but we all do it for the same reason, some have more knowledge/time/experience/luck. stop hating people who had good intentions, hate on the ones who boast about their accident in hopes to be cool. this is not one of those situations.

there have been many variations of one of my favorite life lesson phrases:

Carl Jung said "Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."

What we see in others is quite often what we see in ourselves. And what irritates us in people is may be what we don’t like in ourselves. What you judge in someone you are actually judging in yourself.

Therefore what you notice and what irritates you in others can teach you important things about yourself. Things you may not be aware of. In a way people can be like a mirror for you. A mirror that can help you to learn more about yourself, what you fear and how you may be fooling yourself.


* i copied this from a website so i wouldn't have to type all these thoughts with my half a good hand

Without knowing exactly how severe or complicated your fracture was, my knee jerk reaction is to say that a big part of the problem is that a rescue and "broken heel" can bring cumulative charges of $60,000.

I think it mostly all comes back to the general consensus that the U.S. health care industry is f'ed up in big ways.

Thanks for sharing.

If you didn't want to clutter the forums with irrelevent, pointless bickering, maybe you shouldn't have laid the sarcasm on so thick with your initial post. Kinda sets the tone, don't it?

Toilet boobs!

I knew this thread was going to kick up some reactionary responses, probably one of the more entertaining that's come along recently, BJ.com was getting super stale ( No, I am not "Grown_Up" ). The bottom line isn't so much about the problems with health care, and insurance in the USA, the problem is that every incident in Moab that gets attention is one more black mark against BASE no matter how little difference you think it makes. If you burn sites Like Moab, or the Swiss Valley you are going to run out of playgrounds, and if you can't see this you really are Fucking ignorant,....
There are many people that live in Moab because their passion for BASE or climbing took them there and they fell in Love with one of the most amazing places on the planet. The BASE jumpers that visit and don't respect this fragile balance are spitting in the faces of the residents and need to start showing some respect. If you burn Moab, you are destroying the lives of people that have moved there for BASE. If you don't live there and are a visiting jumper show some respect.
Now,.. a person whose name has been associated more with this thread than any other is JK. She moved to Moab with probably the most ignorant and worst offender of all ( RS.....right Jill?)
If you don't live in Moab, or you are contemplating moving there because it is by far and away the only BASE friendly location in the USA, ( OK if you move to the Perrine you are going to get so bored that you will perfect your" tard overs" for kicks) Then take into consideration before you jump that anything that gives BASE jumpers a negative image directly affects people that ( unlike you), have committed their lives to Moab.
Jill, I am so happy that you are allright,..
If you don't live in Moab....Don't SHIT there ( because the folks that live there and care about the place don't....
I moved to Europe for the free Health care, and legal big walls, LOL. StealthyB.

+1

I don't see how it was irrelevant for me to reply to StealthyB's post. You suggested that unpacked jumps on "technical" sites are irresponsible in your original post, and StealthyB seconded your claim.
I know him to jump wingsuit which is more dangerous (aka "irresponsible") than not jumping wingsuit. So why not leave the wingsuit at home, that's the responsible thing to do.

If the safest play is what your after just straight air hand-held. or better yet, how about static line???
On second thought, don't jump. That's what my mom suggests and she's pretty responsible.

Don't say that everything you do is cool, but everything you don't is irresponsible. Thats what skydivers do and you know how I feel about them.

p.s. I think it's ironic that you posted about not derailing threads on a thread about health insurance

Sorry to derail everyone's hate grenade tossing fest, but a serious question:

Like JT asked, where do you get your insurance? Is it available to individuals?

A couple other Americans briefly mentioned favorable domestic insurance policies as well. Would anyone be willing to share what companies and policies those are?

My limited research hasn't given me much to work with other than the ubiquitous Spot, which I think everyone knows only covers SAR.

I've just cleaned up this thread.

It's impressive how many people are able to discuss this in a civil, adult fashion. Thanks for that.

I'm also curious where Tom got his insurance.

I look at helping out others, even others I don't know, as a tithe to a church.

The insurance I had for the accident in 1999 was Western Health Advantage.

At present I have a catastrophic ($5000 deductible) policy from Blue Cross of Idaho. I keep $5000 in a savings account at all times (and never touch it) to pay the deductible in the event of a catastrophic injury.

My present policy covers BASE (and more or less everything else). I haven't had a Western Health policy for more than 10 years. I'd suggest that if someone wants to inquire if they will cover BASE, Hjumper33 is the right person to ask, because the last I knew he was working for UC Davis, which is a part owner of WHA (I had WHA when I was an employee at UC Davis).

How about we all just admit that we are all f**king idiots for BASE jumping in the first place before this thread continues any further? Jumping without insurance just puts you closer to the bottom of the idiot pile, but it's really all a spectrum of stupidity that we are all on. At the end of the day, it's just money we're talking about here so lets not get our panties in a bunch. We make fun and judge and yell at people who BASE jump and risk their entire 'financial' futures and forget the big picture-- you could die on EVERY jump and not have a future to finance. So how stupid is jumping without insurance? Yeah, thats pretty f**king stupid to risk being in debt for the rest of your life when a simple monthly payment could have prevented that-- but isn't it amazing to have a rest of your life ahead of you in the first place? And if your friends want to help you out financially then good for them, that is their choice not ours.

From personal experience, I had a total of about $150k in bills from a complicated rescue, 3 weeks at a Swiss hospital, transport back to the USA, and ongoing costs from when I was bedridden for months afterwards that was all covered except for a single $500 copay. They covered everything. You just can't beat that. Get insurance if you jump-- without it, you move a little closer to the bottom of the idiot pile than you would be with insurance.

Get better soon Jill. And get some insurance for next time. Trust me, it's worth it.

I admit I'm a idiot

this place is for civil adult conversation!?!?! holy shit, i've been doing it wrong for years!!!!

you have been doing it wrong since you were born but thats another story
maybe see you at the az boogie if im invited

BEFORE YOU START READING: To those who don’t believe in health insurance or just simply don’t give a crap, STOP READING NOW and save yourself 5 min.
I have a Blue Cross Blue Shield. It's an individual plan. A $5000 deductible brought the monthly premiums down to $239, and it also covers me if I’m traveling outside of the good old U.S. of A. It would’ve been a higher monthly premium with a lower deductible though. In my case, I feel I have insurance for more serious shit than a regular doctor visit, so anything less than $5000 a year, I can handle. I do have some so called ‘pre-existing conditions’ but it’s nothing major.
I’m sure every state is different, but I know many jumpers in different states that have BCBS, so it’s worth checking them out. I also know many jumpers with other insurance companies, so sounds like there are some options out there.
When I was researching the BCBS policy, I read their fine print and it didn’t mention anything parachute related. So I contacted one of their agents and asked her:
1- Is any parachute activity (such as skydiving, paragliding or BASE jumping) covered by the plan I want to get?
2- Is any parachute activity (such as skydiving, paragliding or BASE jumping) mentioned in any way in the exclusions?
3 - If I get injured (short or long term) while participating in any parachute activity (such as ….) will I be covered?
4 - Just for good measure, I also asked if a helicopter ride to a hospital would be covered.
I’d rather sound like a moron, than fall through a loophole. Her answer was 1- yes, it’s covered, 2 - it’s not mentioned anywhere in the exclusions, 3- I would be covered and the same deductible, out-of-pocket, co-pay,etc, applies as with any other injury or medical emergency and 4 - “a helicopter transport would be covered only if it was determined “necessary” by medical staff”. The last one sounded like a gray area, but I didn’t worry about it much, since I have a SPOT insurance. Everything she said was matter-of-factly and she didn’t act like ‘you are one of THOSE people?!?’.
I personally feel having those answers in writing would help me take a potential issue further legally, if needed (in case I missed something in the fine print or the agent didn’t know what she was doing).
I know a health insurance has been discussed many times on this forum and some people think it’s better to not ask the insurance company if they cover BASE and just make up a ‘falling of a ladder‘ story, but I personally would rather know for sure what I'm paying for, before I start parting with some cash. Would be a waste of money 5 years down the road, if SAR shows up while I’m laying unconscious at a base of a cliff, with a piece of nylon attached to my shoulders, with no ladder in sight and….. Sorry, no more sarcasm, I learned my lesson. And if I am conscious and there is nobody around, aside from my jumping buddies, then yes, "I fell down while hiking"

I also have BCBS so this post makes me feel better, I've been wanting to call and ask but not throw up any red flags...

Also my 2k maximum out of pocket expenses for 230$ a month seems not so bad either, although sometimes I really wish I had access to that 3 grand a year I'm spending on insurance... it's better to have it and not need it than the other way around I guess.

Fanya, BCBS exclusions and policies differ from state to state so you still need to confirm that your policy in your state covers parachuting related activities. Don't assume or you may get screwed. It happened to a good friend of mine.

Some high deductible insurance plans are also HSA eligible so you can use or tax money for the out of pocket stuff.

Thanks, I'll look into it

For BASE, you should also check if it covers something that happens while doing something illegal. I know that's one that's pretty popular. How often can you definitely say you weren't trespassing on a BASE jump in the US? The one I read didn't specify felony or anything...just illegal activity.

mostly all of mine are legal but I live in the state with the most legal jumps

Something to keep in mind if you think insurance is going to pay off when you end up broken. Most policies don't pay if criminal activity is involved such as trespassing.
Many big group policies don't cover incidents outside your home country.

Just a few things to consider when you are out being sneaky or traveling the world.

And life insurance, Do you really think anyone has that or that it might pay when your good ya go.

You can get a rider for life insurance that covers BASE. It's quite expensive, but available from AIG, among others.

Or if you got your policy before you started jumping, then you're fine. I got mine before I started and I've asked the specific question if they would still pay out and they have to under my policy

A 'Term' policy usually just pays if you die.

'Whole Life' policy not only pays if you die,
in a way they allow, but can be used as a/n
savings/investment vehicle.

Edited: completely changed to explain the
difference in types since 570 has my entire
original post right below this one

Life insurance, for some, makes sense(and cents) if you use it to your advantage and treat it as an investment. My life insurance policy makes a pretty decent return with virtually zero risk and grows tax free.

guess who just bought a brand new BASE rig after acquiring over 100,000 dollars in medical bills. wonder how that was paid for

What dog do you have in this fight bro? Are you sore because she wouldn't give it up to you?

"but I didn’t worry about it much, since I have a SPOT insurance"

2014: The LLyod's of London/GEOS SAR/SPOT policy now has an exclusion of: "- Accidents arising from sky diving or sky surfing" http://www.geosalliance.com/sar/SAR-tsandcs.html

You can get into semantics on the wording but their intent is clear.

she ordered and paid for that rig before she was injured, i know this because i remember having a conversation with her in the park before the series of carnage that occurred last fall, but since its quite apparent you like to call someone out pretty much by name, how about you call your self out, whats your name?
And since you think insurance covers here's one for you, i'm a "disabled vet" who is supposed to be covered for all medical issues, i'm over 50% service connected disability which means the US gov is on the hook for 100% of my medical expenses, hurt myself about a month before she did, I crawled out of the canyon with help from her and other jumpers, went to the ER after phoning the closest VA hospital and asking what i was supposed to do, did what they said and went to the closest ER because it was a trauma, the VA denied my claim, i'm still in the process of fighting to prove that since the closest federal facility is two hours away that my trauma was justifiably treated in the moab ER, meanwhile i'm getting calls from collection agencies.
No matter what system you think you have in place to cover yourself in the event of an accident, you don't know whats gonna go down until you use it, there's no golden ticket to responsible base jumping, and i've actually read my spot policy which says pretty much it won't cover you if your incident in any sport or activity was in any way preventable, what do you really expect for 12 dollars a year,
quit trolling forums, quit judging other people, and go jump off stuff