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Hello all,

I've made several jumps from the 150-170 foot height, and I've made four from 141 feet.

So I guess I've really got only my own experience to rely on, but I have some questions to ask about jumps in the 115-130 foot range. The intended jump method for this object is S/L and the anchor point is solid and snag free. Winds will be 0-neg on the jump night. I am considering a jump over hard ground, but I will entertain advice pertaining to jumps over water as well.

1) could setting your brakes to SBS be helpful for getting more forward speed for landing/preventing surges of any kind (opening or toggle release)? Or could this just increase opening surge in a bad way only? All my previous jumps have been made on DBS.

2) I hear a lot that venting plays no part in the opening height debate, but that the wing may be more controllable (aka 'flying') earlier... what are some opinions on that for a jump of this height? flying earlier would be good for landing performance no doubt?

3) Am I going to certainly be looking at a rear riser flare, or is a pop-half brakes-half flare scenario more likely? (That is how my 140' jumps went)

4) What about the push? I hear people say not to push off strong, but that seems a little silly to me. I think that the pendulum is certainly present, but not so present as people make it out to be... as I read a post by Tom A. "not black and white" as people make it out to be. It would seem to me that the canopy would follow the path of the jumper outward, and not the jumper following a path under the canopy... though certainly some of both is bound to happen. Does anyone notice this phenomenon to more or less present depending on vents in the canopy or wind-specific conditions?

5) Yes, I know there are several posts already available in the forum about this topic, but I thought I might bring this one to light again, since I am looking to increase the risk by another ten feet and have been reading some very contrasting posts lately on sub-50m jumping. I have done a fair amount of research into the older posts.

6)Also this isn't so much a post about static line technique. Assume an ideal CWY that is snag free and not prone to premature breakage.

Thanks for the advice and stories,
Baron

I have made a bunch of jumps on SBS and know a lot of people who actually prefer it for low jumps for the two reasons you mentioned. Of course opening surge will be greater and needs to be accounted for in the event of off headings.

I like vents and believe they make more difference the lower you jump. Some people believe other wise. 1 thing is for certain, if vents aren't beneficial they certainly won't hurt anything. So I would be taking vents along for the ride.

Thats up to you. Might be safer just to go for risers this time around. You miss that toggle and you will be out of time fast. Another method is to leave the toggle stowed and simply grab the control line above the guide ring and pull that directly. Never done it myself but can see how it will give a more powerful flare than risers without the potential of surging in the event of poor toggle control.

Maybe also consider some extra protective equipment the first few times in case you smash into the dirt :-)

You are well below where I have gone.
Impressive, Congrats! Do you mind
telling us your weight? as well as the
size and type of canopy used most?

I second the idea of wearing armor.
I too believe vents help, especially
for larger canopies sizes, 270-330.

As for the exit, head high is primary
with the amount of push added being
teriary to a real comfortable/secure
footing based on the terrain.

SBS can be helpful if you are going to flare on risers, because they will give the canopy more speed to make that flare. Whether that's a good idea depends on whether the object can be struck (i.e. is it a bridge?) and how the landing area is (i.e. do you need the flare?).




Vents will help you get flying for a better/softer flare. I don't think you will be open any higher, but I do think that getting flight sooner will be helpful in this situation.

FWIW, this sort of low FF jump was exactly what Dwain had in mind when he originally pushed manufacturers to build him a vented canopy. All the business about object avoidance/strike recovery came later.



I think with a vented canopy you'll be able to pop the toggles to a deep point (don't let them straight up because that can surge you into the ground), and then let them up slowly until you have to flare (from part brakes).

As fledgling pointed out, you _really_ don't want to fumble and drop a toggle on this jump, so if you are willing to face the 1 in 10,000 chance of a line over on your tailgated canopy, and you are planning a toggle flare, you might consider routing the control lines through the keeper rings.

On an unvented canopy, I think you're better off to go with a riser flare.



Is the object strikeable? If it is, I'd push hard. If it's not, I'd probably drop straight down.




I think you'll get more pendulum in a head wind, and also marginally more with vents.

Ideally, this jump would be a span into a good headwind (for faster inflation and softer landing).

Assuming it's not a span, I'd prefer a vented canopy and zero wind.

Full spine protection, knee pads, etc is a definite for this jump.
I'll be jumping a vented troll 225 for this jump. 135 lbs
Greenmachine, for your interest, I'll also add my lowest FF is 212' with a 46" pc on this same system. I'd do 190 any day on the right object in the right conditions, based on my experiences. Lower and I'd be using a 48" pc... Probably down to about 175' is where I'd be too scared.
The object in question is a B over hard ground.
I planned on giving a good push since it is a solid object and the jump will be in zero wind conditions. The exit point has a nice short ledge just below the tie off point. Built for jumping I'd say!
A very head-high exit is planned.
I am fairly certain of my ability to not drop a toggle...otherwise this type of jump would be even more foolish to consider, but I can see how using the guide rings is a nice solution.

I guess what I am thinking with shallow brakes is that if the opening DOES surge more than I'd like, I can pretty much just crank the brakes down and flare from the height I will be at... Maybe. I'd like to think I'll actually be open a bit higher than that.
I'm more worried about surging into the ground on SBS than the object.
I guess I'd say I do need the flare since this is a jump over hard ground, and while the LZ is relatively easy to hit, there are a few small obstacles (folding chairs) that could be hit by chance, and some canopy control to avoid those if necessary would be nice.

One more point that is worth mentioning.
If you go for toggles make sure you pop them simultaneously.
I know, talk about stating the bloody obvious!
After being accused of causing a broken leg because the laser might be 3ft out, I reviewed the footage and the jumper quite clearly popped one toggle before the other, turning the canopy and essentially hooked himself into the ground from 108ft (maybe 111ft)
From exit to landing was 4.1 seconds on the video, I had time to open pop the toggles and get a bit of a flare, as did the 2nd guy. Guess it must have been a case of 3rd time UN -lucky for the guy off last.

CF36 - thanks and good luck.

Jools - what is your weight? wing? size?

You guys sure make my jumps seem safe

I am 6'3" and 200lbs without gear.
I have a troll 265 and a troll 285 in Gargoyle's.

I have around 25-30 sub 120ft jumps of which 5+ are sub 110ft. (all different objects).
265 is definitely a softer landing at these heights than the bigger canopy.

Always use deep brakes regardless of object type.
Always had time to get my toggles off.
Don't always stand the landing up ;)

Worth adding around the 110ft mark I pretty much pop the toggles and continue the downward motion to flare from the deep brake setting in one motion and without a pause. Above 120ft I MAY let them up slightly or just hold them at that same point for a second or 2 before finishing the flare from the deep setting point.

Laters

Julian

All good advice here fellows!
Thanks a lot. I definitely feel with careful planning that this can be done very safely.
Your sub-110 jumps make mine sound like a cake walk.

I have a grand total of 2 BASE jumps, both at BD in 2003, and this has been eluded to, and you undoubtedly consider the actual landing a lot more than I did, but one thing I WISH I had done was plan and mentally prepare for a PLF whatever happens. I didn't think about the landing at all - I did plenty of plane jumps with the canopy, and was happy that I could fly and land the canopy with over 800 sky jumps under my belt, and was totally focused on the exit and opening ONLY. Come landing time on the 2nd jump, I hit turbulence, got fuck all flare and dropped onto a rock slab, shattering my ankle.
So maybe doing a PLF is something you want to think about making a fo-sho part of your jump plan?
Either way - good luck, and let us know how it turns out!
Cheers!

'Preciate the concern. You're totally right though. PLF has saved me from certain injury more than once, and I've walked away from those incidents without even an scratch or major bruise.
Skydiving and BASE jumping.
I'm super stoked for this one. Hope it goes well... Stay tuned for video ;)
Edited to add:
I'm not a public youtuber though, so I'll pm you guys the unlisted link.

If you're going to PM the link, please PM me too? Hope it goes well .

I'd like to see the link too :)
Good luck and be safe...

Went well. Happy new year.

Good job... let's see the vid!

pm the link please, congrats

DBS of SBS?

Good deal. I'd like a link to see it also, thanks.

I recall talking to Dwain Weston about his double gainer freefalls from 194 feet. He said that the he often didn't bother popping the toggles. He would either land on rear risers or reach above the keeper ring and pull the brake lines directly, with the toggle stowed. No locking stows anywhere also.

No Primary stow or tail gate?

Do you know if he would jump SBS? My canopy in DBS wouldn't be flying fast enough to flair at all. If anything it would just increase my sink-rate and backslide me into the ground.
Or am I wrong by assuming that 110 ft isn't high enough to really start flying if left in DBS?
I probably shouldn't even be commenting on this thread because I don't see 110 ft ever fitting into my R vs R scale. But I like hearing about others experiences...for some reason.

Thats dirty low!

DBS

Edited to add "Happy New Year"

It is a happy new year! Good one!

If I can get it from my friend, I have video of a 98 foot PCA from right over the top. I was in deep brakes, opened, unstowed straight in the half brakes, and then finished the flare. FWIW I still use deep brakes for all static lines, but will start experiementing with shallows to see if I feel a difference.

I think for S/L or PCA, on taller objects, the brake settings depend on where the LZ is and what is between you and the LZ. On sub 120ish~ I think the settings depend on experience. I talked to a jumper who said he was going to pack DBS for every jump from now on. Can't figure that one out, but anyway....

Sick jump in the videos. So many things could have gone wrong on that one. Ballsy or stupid? Hum, probably both. Great job on it though.

Well done. Please let me know all the details of the canopy you used including wingloading?

Looking forward to the vid