Basejumper.com - archive

I think a thread listing & discussing problems
that occurred during Static Line BASE jumps
would be more entertaining and educational.

I only have 1 sl jump but I have seen a friend leave his PC on an object after his bridle snagged and ripped. Not sure but I think it snag on an eye bolt. No one realized it till after he landed. He had to climb back up to get his PC while I drank a beer.

I had a problem on a static line jump once. Every one called me a fag.

BAZING!!!

HA HA HA HA HAHA HA! Dude, that's not funny.

So far the only problem I have had was when
one of CWY's broke and remained at the exit.
My deployment was fine and luckily it was on
a remote bridge so the local just removed it
on his next visit to the object.

I have heard about a bridle breaking once but
the more common problem is PC damage, this
can be easily avoided by using a rubber band
to hold the PC by the apex.

http://youtu.be/xUi_6F9_3NM

Skip to 1 minute 5 seconds for my current
method of static lining from a chill object
where time and light are ample.

and No, I did not make or post the video.
and Yes, I have freefallen it many times.

Around 30 sl jumps with no problems. Used a dollar store ballon as a substitute once-worked pretty well, although it was from a freefallable A. Probably wouldn't have experimented with that rigging on anything lower.

Discovered some bridal burn after a night of lower PCA and sl jumps. Haven't really figured that one out yet, unless the PCAer had a a death grip on those s folds.

11 SL from 175'A awesome
1 SL from 170'B perfect
2 SL from 150'S great!

14 total SL. all perfectly executed

Probably at least 100 static line jumps from probably around 40 objects, quite of few of them being opened. No issues at all yet. I use a carry along and one piece of break cord every time. I have 3 different lengths of carry alongs depending on how big the piece of object im tying off to is. Lowest so far is a 120ft A. i recommend tying up higher than your exit if possible just to reduce the initial force, and extract the canopy faster the lower you go, also helps the bridle from blowing around. I always use a pilot chute, though I pick my most ragged out 42 in case it gets snagged, which doesnt really make any sense if you think about it.

I've taught several hundred people CWY static line. I have used 6 different techniques during this time.

The only true failure was a broken bridle on a Y shaped CWY setup (which I no longer use). I also saw some bridle wear on a direct (bridle wraps the anchor point) setup.

+1

 

How To Make a Carry-With-You Static Line:

http://www.blincmagazine.com/...With-You_Static_Line

I personally think that is not very optimal design, as when rapide link or the dacron will get stuck on the object it can easily damage or tear the bridle or maybe even damage the canopy if happens more often.

IMO static line should only be attached by break cord to the bridle so in case of some problems it will break and leave the SL behind.

What are you going to tie too? And how much time will you have to set it up?

I use 200 lbs Dacron for the part lark headed to the bridle if that happens so it will break if something goes wrong at a lesser force than will damage the bridle.

The point of a cwy is to simplify the tying off procedure and make it the same for every object. It also keeps a consistent breaking force for the static line for every object, as sometimes you are tying off to rough, sharp, or otherwise gnarly stuff that might cause your break cord to release at lower pressures.

Gauleyguide asked: What are you going to tie too?
And how much time will you have to set it up?

Good questions. Some buildings require unique
methods to connect depending on the anchor
point. I once had to make a 12 foot lead with
a loop on each end. Arrived, wrapped it around
this square roof structure, then connected my
bridle to the lead with a CWY made of dacron
to take the friction of roof edge.

I agree with hjumper33 about using a lighter line.
If I made one today I would probably use gutted
550 paracord since it is cheaper and weaker than
dacron plus I happen to have more of it on hand.

So a 12' leader, then a cwy?

Just a question, if u left leader on roof why would u not tie to leader?

Nowadays I probably would, but this was 4+
years and almost 400 BASE jumps ago when
I was busy re-inventing my own wheel solo

The roof is rather dark and the LZ is tight
so I would not want to rig everything there
since a light hurts one's night vision...

On the plus side, I replaced the 12' dacron
leash with a permanent solution that looks
like it part of the building's original design.

Vinyl covered steel cable wrapped around the
same roof structure with stainless steel links
that bolt/clamp the wire to keep it in place.


If I was making that same jump tonight I'd
put a loop of break cord on a loop/knot in
the middle of my bridle and a redundant
loop of break cord at the end of my bridle
at home, S-fold the slack inbetween and
secure that with a small rubber band, then
right before exit tie one piece of line thru
both loops of break cord & the anchor loop.

I think blue tape works better then a rubber band.YMMV

I think a small tailgate rubber band works better. You can adjust it in the field, and if you thread the bridle thru it before you put the PC on, it will never get lost and you will always have it there when you need it no matter what configuration you use.

 

I made a couple of tailgates out of it...

Is there a chain already there? What is it attached to? I'd make sure it's not going to come with you gift wrapped in F1-11.

Are you going off the corner of the B? You might want to make sure the anchor point doesn't allow the chain to slide off one side or the other. Off headings on a low, solid object might not be the funnest thing you can come up with.

How far away is the LZ and will you have to go off one of the sides? You might also want to think about making your first S/L from a more forgiving object. That way you will know how much canopy time you will have, since you have never done a S/L before I can tell you that you are going to open very quick. If your LZ is close you may find yourself hook'n it into something. If the LZ is further away then you could bring a book and read it on the way there...I'm just saying.

And how may jumps do you have?

Thanks for your concern
Alan

 

Try finding a more forgiving object with the same intended flight plan and same LZ, and even possibly the same outs as the B, and the same exit height and see what happens on it.

What is the LZ like: distance from the building, size of lz, obstacles in lz, is it soft like dirt, grass, or sand, or hard like pavement or concrete? If it is hard, do you have good protective gear and can you consistently plf well? I rather foolishly did an sl from a 175' B on the beach, when I had less than 20 jumps. The relatively low opening height scared me and caused me to clear the toggles very rapidly and a little too deep, creating a stall. I let it up just enough to let the canopy fly, but not enough to get a good flare. The landing was hard, but since I chose a forgiving deep sand lz, I walked away without issue. I've done several jumps from the same altitude since and they were all pretty easy and uneventful, because I knew what to expect. 186' versus 250' may not seem like that big of a difference, but if you look at in terms of usable canopy altitude instead of overall height, it is a huge difference. The point of this story is that the relatively low altitude could be overwhelming and or scary causing you to have a higher likelihood of making an error, or it could just be that I'm a big pussy.

I would suggest that you try a jump from about the same altitude with a more forgiving lz, if the B you are looking at has a small or hard surface lz. Ideally I would recommend water, then a soft surface, then pavement if that is what you are working with, but I realize that is not always possible and or practical. The reality is that 186' is plenty of altitude for an sl with a good lz, but lack of experience can lead to silly rookie mistakes.

Also, If you are planning on bringing a chain to create your own anchor point, there is probably no need for a CWY.

 

A CWY including a carabiner?
Huh... Never heard of that before.

You are not at all worried about the carabiner that is "high strenght" will hook on to something when it's beeing carried with you?

 

So did you know that CWY means carrying the static set up with. Ummm that means carrying the chain and your extra static line with you. Do you fail to see the problem? As BASE460 back in the day said. Sloppiness tends to slop over into other aspects of ones life.
so now I will ask you. I dont need the answer, you do. Why is the object so important to you? Priorities? I really understand that things are calling you to jump them. But you have to dance with the devil. The devil is going to try to kill you every step of the way. The devil will convince you that you know whats up. It is very clear that you dont with you not understanding the purpose of some as simple as a CWY. You are not searching hard enough for a similar object. There are peeps that will go cross country/world to help you. And all you can find is 250 A to simulate.
I am not saying that you are an idiot.
Always question your motivations is what i am begging you to do. Fear on the left shoulder, Logic on the right. let them fight it out and go with the winner but know that the devil is lurking for this exact time in your life where you feel unsure because that is his entry point..
Priorities. write it. Dont forget to add in the dynamics of the future.
I cant help you more. Sorry.
Take care,
space

So it's not a CWY then is it?
What's the purpose of the carabiner then?
You attach the carabiner to 'something' and tie breakcord to the carabiner?
Why not tie the breakcord to 'something' and skip the part that leaves the trace?

SPACE: So did you know that CWY means carrying the static set up with.

HA HA HA HA

I have never selected chain to help me static line an
object where the distance between the best/closest
anchor and the best exit point are measured in feet.
I have used dacron, paracord, and my new favorite
is this thin nylon strap, almost like thin plastic but
strong as hell, light, easy to transport.

 

 

ok, sign up.
take care haha.
space

Dont do CWY. Do it breakcord. message me. I wont hold your dance against you statement

Still curious about any negative experiences Static Lining.

I have seen a few things, heard a few things, but as of now

think/believe that when executed correctly the success rate

should be as close to 99.9% as anything a human could want.

I have used a few different methods now and prefer two bits, one at mid point on the bridle and one at the end at the attachment point.

I would be interested to hear if anyone has ever seen/had a PC break off or bridle damage because they used breakcord on the attachment point.

Seen a bridle snap of at the overhand knot tied off at the half way point, repetitive use of the same knot position, had a lot of break chord burn, and was draped against a sharp edge, jump went fine bridle broke after canopy was at line stretch, gear maintenace

I built a bridle just for SL jumps. It just has loops every foot that are bar tacked in. so just like the USA i'm knot free

Would you post a picture of your bridle?

I built myself a few static-line only bridles.

I used knots instead of sewing but works fine.

loop, pin, pin, loop, loop, loop which mates with

canopy, closing loop, closing loop, breakcord, breakcord, PC

I've got a CWY (one that TomA showed me) and it's great. I did have a minor issue on a freestanding antenna:
I setup the staticline from a knot in the middle of the bridle; I packed the rest of the bridle and PC as if going handheld and put it in between my legs; that way (as Tom showed) it is clear until you jump and then your legs widen and release it into clean space so it wont snag on the object.
But I dropped the PC just before I pushed off and I felt the exposed bridle catch on my heel. It rotated me and I opened with a 90 right. Wasn't a problem on that object, but a 90 left would have ruined my night.

Ill post a photo on Thursday when I get home.

I've seen a couple people have problems kicking and getting tangled up in the bridle. I don't care for this method at all. I prefer to hold the pc like I'm going handheld, as I leave the exit point I'll pitch it to the side like my life depends on it. I learned this method from Will Kitto.

That seems super weird to me. I'd never do that, but to each their own. I fold mine up like handheld and just toss it to the side as I jump. I would feel very uncomfortable with my bridle and PC dangling all about

I have seen someone slip off the exit point with the PC in their hand like this (during the climb over).

His animal instinct made him grab for whatever he could get, and because the PC was in his hand as he fell he broke the break cord without extracting the canopy. This put him quite a lot lower than was comfortable.

If they are tucked in between your knees or between your rig and the object they aren't dangling.

Another good trick is to use a tailgate rubber band with a single wrap (so loose) to control the bridle.

If anyone does tuck any part of the bridle or PC, you absolutely have to make sure that the bridle going from the pins to the tie off point is shorter that the bridle going from the tie off point to the PC where it is tucked in. There was a fatality because of this.

Has anyone ever passed the breakaway system THROUGH the pilot chute attachment point? Or using a second attachment with a much lower strength? The only problem I could see is it catching on the attachment point, effectively shortening your bridle by 50%.

You could also tie the pilot chute attachment point to the object using a strand of the guts of Type III nylon (550 cord). Not the full 550, just one strand of the kern. It will break from <60Lbs based on some tests I've done.

This is the reason I wanted a PC with SL tie off at apex of PC,

Controls PC,
Wind blows PC flat,
When you leave PC is oriented in correct positions (doesn't have to turn 180 degrees, less snag potential )

I read about on this forum and use a really thin office rubber band that is larks headed around the object to hold just the apex of the PC. It does everything you are looking for. I actually use the overhand knott loop, at a little over the half way point, to attach my static line to.

That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What if the rubber band closes off your pc? You tie an overhand "knott"? How can you tie a proper knot if you can't even spell the word!? It sounds like you are trying to learn to jump from the internet. You probably don't even have a mentor. Kids today?

Overhand knot halfway up the bridle for his static line.
He loops the end of a larks-headed, super thin rubber band on the apex of the pc, no knots in that.

Even if he did knot it, he said the rubber band is attached to the object. It would have to break if it went with the PC, making it impossible to close off anything.

 

I don't understand the need for the special CWY system. I've been using a set-up like the picture attached for a while and it's been working fine. I just tie two loops in the bridle. One loop actually breaks the break cord and the other just holds on to the broken cord afterwards. I have somewhere between 30 and 40 SL jumps.

Hey Huck
Just as you advised me to do the jump you took a screen grab off without a pc another jumper sadly left us for exactly that reason. Just a really simple rule that a lot of people have proved over time. When you jump a packed rig make sure there is a pilot on the other end of the bridle no matter what. If you can't handle a pilot jump D-bag or top skin assist. Now my static line system. Yeah i have a carabiner on there and that is a potential snag hazard. so it is tied on there through break cord. So if it snags i lose a 5 euro carabiner and that is something i can live with ;) And if worst comes to worst and my bridle snags it will break before the canopy does. breaking a pilot + bridle is no fun but still way way better then going in. So now have fun jumping without your pc because fuck it second chances are for pussies ha :P

Idiot,
Just for clarification I didnt advise you. I said you "had shitty technique"

So I guess PCA was out for you since there has been someone who went in on PCA?

G'day Huck,

To start off, if you hadn't deleted those facebook posts i could prove what you said. But to my best knowledge you said that you would personally do that jump without a pilot chute.
So now i have a couple of questions:

1: Please give me one really good reason why one should jump a packed rig without a pilotchute.

2: As you staticline without a pilotchute how do you make 100% sure you do not have a premature?

3: And please give me atleast one good reason why a CWY system containing a carabiner connected through breakcord is as dangerous as you say it is.

So prove to me i am an idiot and come up with some really good answers. Because i can't find any good reason to jump without a pc. i can never be 100% sure i don't get a premature. And i cannot see how anything light or firmly anchored attached through breakcord to the bridle can be dangerous.
Enlighten me Huck so i can be a better basejumper because you seem to have it all figured out and i don't.

Regards,
Wouter Wellen

The carabiner's break cord and the CWY break cord could both snap and follow you on the fall, then hit & kill a passing cat :P

my question is still why do you need a carabiner? I can make a great cwy out of just one piece of dacron and two pieces of break cord.

I think the idea behind the carabiner is to eliminate any knot tieing at the exit point, I used a "home brew" that looked and worked identical to the APEX CWY (french link, not carabiner) on a low A at night with well below freezing temps, I liked that I didnt have to tie knots with frozen fingers in the dark and it was pretty quick n easy once I had my head wrapped around how it worked. That was my only SL jump, I'll most likely keep using the system only because it worked well the first time, theirs definitely a few ways to skin this cat, pros and cons to most of the methods.

Well sure, I use a tiny 220# quick link too on my system for the same reason, but that's something tiny, not a giant carabiner.

Besides all that, if you have a snapshackle, that works really well and is even faster. I know you can actually buy them pretty cheap some places...I recycled mine from an old RSL.

http://milspecmonkey.com/...ap-shackle-mini.html
has a couple different sizes, and surely one of them is stronger than 80# break cord and could be a nice backup as the next thing to break maybe... instead of bridle.
I mean for 7 bucks, why not?

I'de be curious to know what the shear strength of the hinge pin is on the shackle and if (with repeated use) it would at some point shear off rather than snap the brake cord.

Why 5+ SL?
Would you take advice from people with 5+ skydive or 5+ jumps from the Perrine?

Options were crafted that way for statistical purposes.

15/99 or 15% have had a problem static lining

84/99 or 85% have never had a problem using
a static line, except of course being mocked

The third option: people with zero to four S/Ls
plus all of these 0 to 4 jumps went as planned,
holds the least valuable data to me personally.

While out of sheer curiosity I would listen to a
guy/gal with 0-4 jumps, I am less likely to get
new information that would change my beliefs.

edited to turn off Green

Heres a spreadsheet that relates time, distance, and speed to the force a given weight has, i think this says a lot about the benefits to tieing the brake cord half way down the bridal rather than at the end. I'll weigh my canopy when i get home and enter the weight for a 280. If I can get some weights on various canopys i can add data for the differant sizes / materials and see where the limits of 80lb brake cord are for various canopys.

https://docs.google.com/...Izw/edit?usp=sharing

I will never understand people that say tie it in the same spot no matter where that spot is. I was always told to tie it as close to the pins as a I could (within reason). Just leave yourself enough room for a safe climb over/make sure it won't pop your pins before you jump.

makes sense, a foot makes a big difference in snatch force when your around the middle of your bridal. has anyone ever had an issue due to lack of separation from the object because of having the tie off point too close?

Would the values in this table change depending on the angle of launch? I would think so. The further you push out the less you have fallen downward thus resulting in less downward velocity, at least for a short period of time.

If the jump is not extremely low then I try to jump out hard to keep tension on the system as long as possible and make the time that the lines are coming out and the system is not tensioned as short as possible. I've seen many times where someone will have a semi weak push and you can see the canopy come out of the container and fall back towards the object, sometimes even touching it. I try to have this happen as little as possible by launching hard.

I once jumped a solid object where my tie off was close to my pins, but reasonable for climbing over a rail, and I jumped from a ledge that extended maybe 15 inches from that rail. Now my packjob comes out and strikes the wall behind me, before I reach line stretch. This can't necessarily be classified as a bad thing... it squared my packjob up perfectly onheading perpendicular to the wall. I can't say this is exactly a negative effect, but it is an effect nonetheless. You run the risk of dragging your packjob against the object you leap from in just the right circumstances.

Also, before anyone suggests I did not, I did jump forward pretty good, not just step off the object.

Not the best image of it, but here is a pic of that contact moment (also I used a snapshackle here for my CWY):

Basic physics says downward motion happens independently of forward motion... So I'm not sure the force of the canopy hitting the end of the bridle will change that much.

Jumping out is important though :)

I dont think it would change all that much, you're trading vertical velocity for horizontal velocity. if you push off hard enough, you could reach bridal stretch (more horizontally) with a faster velocity than a fall, you would need to push off with a starting velocity around 5.5mph to do it. That being said, I think you pointed out the biggest contributor to variation, since vertical velocity change is constant and independent from the horizontal.

I just noticed a fair sized burn/nick in my bridle after a SL last night. It is exactly where I tied my breakcord in the apex of the overhand knot halfway along my bridle.

It looks like it was caused by the breakcord cutting/burning into the bridle prior to breaking. Has anyone experienced this? It has cut approximately 1/5th of the way through my bridle and there are some visible burn marks around the cut. Could twisted breakcord be the issue?


I use the standard Apex BASE takeaway system and have been doing quite a few SLs lately. Maybe repetition has weakened that part of the bridle...?

Probably. That and break cord tied directly to the bridle would cut into it.

The standard SRBA lanyard has a small connector link and a piece of line cord connected to the loop in the bridle. Both would have less potential to cut the bridle.