Basejumper.com - archive

Hello,

I have never base jumped. I have never even sky dived. However, this is not about me wanting to start either activity (though they are on my list). No, this is about something else entirely.

I was watching The Weekly Space Hangout on Google+ today. At one point, near the end, the people starting talking about NASA's Vehicle Assembly Building. This building is huge, with an external height of 525 ft. Inside is just one big room. So I asked, off the cuff, if it would be possible to base jump inside the building. While I was only joking at the time, the excitement this generated was palpable. They thought it would be unbelievably awesome if someone managed to actually base jump inside the VAB.

This got me wondering: Is it even feasible to safely jump inside this building, and is there any one willing to do so? At first I thought that I could learn how to base jump myself, and then contact NASA to see about the possibility. I was quickly disabused of the notion that I could pull off such a stunt. But an experienced jumper might be able to do so. If there is any one willing, I would happily try and convince NASA that such a stunt would be an excellent publicity stunt. Me on my own may not be able to do much, but the people conducting the Weekly Space Hangout are active members in the space community. They said that if anyone wanted to try such a stunt, they would do what they could to convince NASA to let them.

For a little background (and to convince you that I'm not entirely insane), I will post a link to the Hangout that I've been referring to. The relevant bit starts at 48:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soIPR0bkfa4&list=UUogrSQkBJn1KF0N9I4oM7eQ&index=1&feature=plcp

Fraser Cain is the editor of Universe Today, a widely regarded space news and information site. Dr. Pamela Gay has been an astronomer for many years, has worked with NASA, and is currently a leader at CosmoQuest.com, a citizen science website.

It is highly unlikely that NASA will allow this to happen. But the VAB has recently been retired, and is being prepped for commercial space activities, most notably for SpaceX. This means that NASA may be more open to the idea, especially if SpaceX or a large portion of the space community is supportive of the venture. NASA may say no, but they also may say yes. But before I start trying to convince NASA to let this happen, I figured I should make sure that it is even possible, and that there is some one, preferably with a high degree of expertise and experience, who would be willing to try.

As for me, I'm just a dude who likes space and who has a penchant for adrenaline sports. I can't base jump, nor am I a big name in the space community. I figure I can act as a go between, getting a proposal written up for NASA, and as a point of contact for you, the people over at the Space Hangout, and NASA. Or, at the very least, I can serve as the catalyst that got the ball rolling on this project. All I ask is, if this does become a reality, that I get an invite to the event.

I can be reached at: VABJumper@gmail.com

Thank you for your time

I'll bite the bullet, I will do it for you. As much as I don't think it's a good idea, I guess I'll do it. Just say when and where.

Oh. And uh... Delete your post so no one else sees it.

Well, the 'where' is easy: Kennedy Space Center. As for the when ... That all depends. The more people showing interest sooner, the quicker this could happen. Do you not think it's a good idea because the idea is inherently dangerous, or for some other reason? I ask because critical feedback is a good thing, and also because NASA really loves their risk assessments.

Cheers!

Oh yea. Absolutely. So when did you say I could jump it?

People has jumped inside much smaler buildings.
http://youtu.be/7WUctP7Rr2U

Tomorrow. I cleared it with security. Go ahead and fly down to Florida and walk right in. You should have a pretty interesting day.

If there is any one interested in having an honest conversation I would welcome your remarks.

Yes it can be done. There are a shit ton of BASE jumpers who would be willing to do it. Unfortunately, there really is no good reason for NASA to allow it.

Walt

Thank you Walt.

While I think the likelihood that they'll say yes is low, I don't think that it's impossible. NASA has done a lot over the past few years (to greater and lesser success) by way of public outreach and visibility. They've done tweet-ups, sponsored high altitude balloon flights for kids, launched forums allowing the general public to engage with actual scientists, and they have gotten a lot more savvy with the press. Consider their recent Mars Rover. They did a lot of non-traditional, at least for NASA, forms of outreach, most especially the '7 Minutes of Terror' video. Base jumping the VAB is definitely a lot crazier than anything else they've done, but it's not as outside the realm of possibility as it may have been twenty years ago. As for a reason they may say yes, well if someone did jump the VAB it would likely end up on the nightly news and splashed across at least a few newspapers. Prime time exposure is worth it's weight in gold at NASA.

The biggest hold up would be the possibility of something going wrong. But if we can convince them that the stunt can be done safely, it just might be possible to convince them to let the stunt happen. If we knock together a good, solid proposal we just might pull it off.

The biggest question anyone making that proposal to NASA will have to answer is what is in it for NASA.

I'm guessing but I think the PR value would be minimal.

I don't think there is a lot of potential for scientific advancement.

Doesn't seem like it would help their funding situation.

Sorry for sounding negative, but I think convincing NASA administrators to allow BASE jumps in their facilities will be a very tough sell. On the other hand, if someone could come up with a plausible connection with NASA's mission, e.g., developing a personal rapid-evacuation system for use on the launch pad service structures, then there might be a better chance.

Walt

You're absolutely right, NASA has to see some reason to let this happen.

There certainly wouldn't be any scientific value, nor would it directly affect their funding issues.

You definitely raise good points, and I don't think it's terribly negative. Critical feedback is a good thing.

I hadn't thought of the evac system, that's actually not bad. I know that they have a zip line for rapid escape, but that would suffer from congestion in an emergency. However, a parachute evac plan may be something that would be worth it for NASA to investigate. I'm not sure if it would be a plan that they would adopt, but they may consider looking into the idea.

As for PR, it would be little more than a stunt, with no long term impact. But if that single event were done in a way and at a time that NASA was looking to get something done in congress, that single shot might be worth it for them. I don't think staging the event during the election would do much. But if it was done shortly after the election, had the support of one of the companies taking over the VAB, and had the corollary possibility of a new evac program, it may swing the vote in favor of the stunt.

Here's what I see: Shortly after the election, SpaceX and a few other companies get together to celebrate their recent accomplishments. The VAB is currently retired, and being prepped for commercial enterprises. Those enterprises would want some spectacle in their show, and a BASE jumper in the VAB fits the bill. Right after an election is a good time to push for more funding, because officials want to be seen to be doing something, and also every one's spirits are up. Getting some positive press would come in handy at a time like that. Combine those two factors together along with a potential new evac, and NASA may well give the go ahead. It's not a strong possibility, but I think it's definitely a possibility.

Thank you for the feedback, it's actually quite helpful.

-Dan

Are you thinking in terms of having someone wearing a space suit BASE jump into some big NASA event at the VAB?

Walt

What about having Obongo jump in, point at a space vehicle, and proclaiming, "You didn't build that!!!".

On second thought, doing the extreme opposite would be a much better idea.

Have a decent human being who cares deeply about his country jumping in and thanking NASA contractors, "...for building that!!!".

Walt

That is certainly one idea, having the jumper drop in on a party. I think that would be especially powerful if it's done during some commercial companies party at the VAB, like SpaceX. Then there could be some great speech about how NASA allowed the commercial companies to thrive. That would definitely sit well with the current administration.

But that's just one possibility. There could be other reasons to celebrate, such as anniversaries or dedications. They recently celebrated the 35th anniversary of the voyager missions, and they generally like to throw a little bit of a party at times like that.

Although I doubt many, if any, of us have the time or energy to try and pioneer such an event mainly because of the unlikely nature of it, I would like to say I support any of your efforts to get such an event in motion. If you do happen to pull this off though I promise I will be the first one on the plane headed down there. Feel free to hit me up if they end up needing crash test dummies for feasibility tests (I know the eggheads love their testing... And big words like feasibility for that matter)

Cheers brov, and good luck

Hey Walt,

Earlier this year I made an offhanded remark about jumping the VAB to a NASA-employee skydiver that we both know. He reached into his pocket, pulled his key ring out, and said, "this one will get you in the door". Then he put them back in his pocket, because he is a cruel man.

Oh, I have no problem playing champion of the cause on this one! Excellent, now that I know that the jump is possible, and that there is support for it, I can start working out how to convince NASA to let it happen. Awesome.

I'm just messin with ya man. Its kinda hard to reflect my tone of voice in a sentence. I was being really excited and impatient. Its kinda like when a kid steps foot in a candy store. If you could make it so there could be a legal jump"in" or "off" of that building, I would love to jump something like that.

What if some of the NASA guys did a TANDEM BASE jump from the roof of the VAB? Huh?

I've got a feeling that a tandem BASE jump would fail a NASA risk assessment.

Has there been a fatality on a tandem base jump?

It has been jumped in the late '80s. The jumper is a friend of mine.
Take care,
space

Thanks for the clarification! There is definitely support, and the jump seems feasible. Getting NASA approval will be hard though. When I have time today (just woke up) I will start hashing out a plan to get that approval.

Stay frosty my friends!

I am in awe. That is the kind of dickheadedness that I have always aspired to, but have never been able to achieve.

Walt

Did he jump inside or outside?

I was going to make some smart-ass remark (which is what most of us do here, just an FYI) about this being a silly idea at such as public place in the United States of Lawyers.........but then..........the Super Bowl jump popped into mind.

If you're really serious about this, and if you havent already, get in touch with the folks at Apex BASE. There are two great people who are known world wide by many jumpers in the community that may be able to offer you some advise re something like this.

Good Luck

Thank you dride, I'll definitely pursue that. I just got an email from Fraser Cain, who basically said that all we need to do is pitch it to NASA. I will hop on finding out exactly who to contact for that. That may take a little while, as NASA is quite huge and complicated. But for right now, it seems that we're at the point of actually making the request. If there is anyone who would like to attach their names to the request (once I figure out who to make the request to) feel free to post here or to message me. That way, when I make the request, I can give them a list of qualified candidates for them to choose from.

Thank you all for the support and information!

Over the open doors I think. I'll ask.
take care,
space.

I don't know you, so I won't personally attack you, but that's not really a valid argument in relation to the level of safety (or conversely the level of danger) of a particular activity. Total iteration levels are still pretty low; there aren't really enough data to calculate the likelihood of minor injury, severe injury, or single/multiple death(s). The so called "conventional wisdom" of jumpers -- some of whom assume without second thought that a static line is fail-proof -- wouldn't fly in any kind of scientific assessment of risk. I'm not saying tandem BASE is inherently more dangerous than normal BASE. I'm also not saying it's more safe. I'm only saying that the data don't exist in sufficient levels to make a sound approval of safety and I'm saying that your argument lacks substance.

Sorry, forgot this:

SpaceGuy,

You're awesome. Really. I hope your project works because it would be sick.

I see a lot of my hard work/ground work and social engineering going to waste in this discussion. i wish the topic never came up because some of my dreams and aspirations are probably lost now. thanks a lot.

Sorry, My mind distorted the jump site.
It was off of Launch Complex 41 for the Titan 4 not the VAB.
Take care,
space

I called Kennedy Space Center, and it turns out everyone that I would have to talk to about this is out of the office for the weekend. So, first thing Monday morning, I will be calling back.

Well damn. I always knew this was gonna be a long shot, but I didn't expect this. Everyone I talked to was friendly and open, right up until I told them why I was calling. I was hung up on, shut down, and ignored. I never even got to make the proposal, for as soon as I said 'base jump', the person on the other end would freak out. I couldn't even get more than a sentence out without them interrupting me, hanging up the phone, or promising that they'd call me back (A pretty obvious lie). This is really disappointing. I figured I'd at least get to make the pitch before I was turned down. But instead I just got a bunch of bullshit.

I'm heading out of town this week, so I can't keep calling. Also, I don't think that I will ever get them to listen to me. If any of you want to pursue the matter further, be my guest. If there's anyone out there who knows people that work there, or have more clout then I do, you'd probably have better luck than me. As for me, I'm finished with it. Thank you guys for the support, and I wish I could at least report that I got to make the proposal. Damn you NASA people who couldn't even listen for five minutes.

-Dan

Nice try and thanks for even trying.

But to be honest, I think we all knew this was going to happen..

if you didn't piss in the pool already, try framing it as "engineers doing indoor parachute testing in a climate-controlled environment"

Yeah.

Thanks though.