Basejumper.com - archive

Mick,

Honestly, if I had not been contacted within 72 hours of Rob's death by you guys, basically harassing me for details I might feel differently right now. Sure with the rise in popularity of wingsuiting in general media your website is probably going gangbusters, good for you. Too bad there really isn't anything to learn from these deaths, apart from don't wingsuit if you're afraid to die. Bravo for all you're bringing to it, not. I got a friend request from you a while ago, ignored it. I finally accepted after multiple requests. You will be the first person I un-friend from my account, and I urge anyone that is tired of your spams to follow suit. Too bad, since you are a nice guy in real life.

Ginny

First I want to state a fact of facts on ANY incident:

#1
If the FACTS are not collected within ~1 week of the incident, the chances of getting them ever drop dramatically! After 2 weeks, they become almost impossible to attain because those who know the data, have moved on with their life and dont want to talk about it.

If you look at the list, there are countless entries that have little or no information. Chances are pretty high we will never get that data now.

#2
Nobody knows the implication of the rise in fatalities better than me and patto.
Everyone here and on FB sees the rise just on the media, what you dont see is the utterly RUTHLESS media scum trying to get the data.

#2a
The people involved, and worse, the family, are hit with this media barrage even worse than me and patto. I feel this is the direct reason that getting the facts diminishes so rapidly after the incident.

#2b
In order to attempt to keep the media at bay, when we hear about an incident, we dont post the names until the family has been notified.

#2c
To keep the media more at bay, we will not release any details we gather for 2-weeks after the incident. We hope that news that is 2 weeks old is no longer useful to reporters. If we find, or any jumper can help us determine that the 2-week time should be changed, then we will do that.




next, when I do request to at least know who might be the contact person, in hopes that they will share the facts, I am always VERY polite, and I ONLY ask once.

So, I am open for you to PM me to describe the spam that you feel I am sending, because that is never my intention.

The Incidents forum is for discussion of specific BASE incidents.

I am going to move this thread to the General forum and leave a pointer in Incidents so people can find it.

In regards to what Mick has written,

I do not get involved anymore in arguments, i understand there is another argument behind all of this in regards to basejumper.com and blinc.com

Regardless of this..

Since taking over the BFL i have tried to get the most accurate information out there for fellow jumpers.
As mick has stated after the first few days, if information has not been found then it will most likely never be or made up as a rumour.. I know there is people on these forums who read the fatality list and have a picture of a friend on there and information, but dont share it ! why is that? i respect all my friends who have died and want to have them remembered, we dont run around under cover any more we are trying to have the sport out in everyones face

Ginny in regards to yourself.. i contacted you a few days after the incident i did not know mick had done the same thing , which is quite rare as i am 95 percent the person who contacts the jumpers on the load or the people left behind in order to gather the main facts to stop the rumour mill spread like wildfire on these and other forums..people when they meet me in person on an exit point have said oh your the grim reaper...We hope you dont contact us

After i wrote to you ,
i realised you had put up a statement which i then used as we both are aware it was on the internet and i know many people who dont go to blinc or basejumper would not see that statement so i posted it on the BFL ,

when an accident happens the need by the public is not my greatest concern but the need to find out why is for our sake (the jumpers) is and always will be.

look at the mushroom fatality just last year , and i could go on and on this information has saved a few others i can tell..

I Dont feel the best about the job, lets go back a few years

look at where it opened up (Nick), he was harrassed and abused and threatened..

He eventually gave it up .. why because of the nature of these and thought he did not need this..

then abbie had the job he was a busy person and although he did a great job keeping it going, somehow i dont think he was always around the community and meeting the people staying up to date with fatalities in the sport is a big part of the list..

Myself stepped up to the plate because i wanted to gather information and put down what is absolute truth...

Today i still receive harrassing emails, been abused and even threatened...

But myself being a jumper i know that for myself i want to know where and how a friend or fellow jumper died.. if for one reason it saves another then i do believe i have done something for the community without asking for anything back...

I have lost 14 people i have jumped with and known 4-5 of them quite well..But why do i continue to jump , i continue to jump because i know that death inbase jumping is a part of it..

I am surprised at people who base jump. when someone dies sure we are all saddened but really shocked i dont think so...

If any basejumper is reading this and thinks they have no chance dying in the sport then maybe ask yourself..

Do you think the 191 base fatalities woke up that morning on hollidays jumping with friends said "Todays a good day to die" I dont fucken think so....

Ginny i am not attacking you at all , this is just a thread on the base fatality list ,

I do not care if i have ruffled peoples feathers as i dont see anyone else doing there bit for the sport ,
everyone these days is take take take..

Go pro action youtube" sure i did it as well but after a while it gets boring beyound the fact..

who wants to watch another jumpers videos of them jumping off the same exit point raring over trees and missing by a few inches..

Really the sport these last few years is more about who is in a clan or group and who can get there videos out every northern hemisphere summer...

The jumping community is all about cameras these days.. i dont even watch videos anymore because there so fucking boring... but people are using the camera to post these boring videos of them just missing ledges and shit for what!! they make no money out of it..

Lately the jumpers using there cameras to promote them missing tehse ledges is killing us ...

we started out with carl boenish trying to find a way to jump off cliffs in order to survive every jump,

then we received smoke pants to fly greater(thanks atle)

then onto the wingsuiit to fly away ..

But now we are so in need to show others how hardcore we are we invent flying 2 foot from a wall continuously for a min at a time...(With 45 base jumps)

really its time the community all looked at the way we fly these days..take a step back from posting fucken boring videos of themselves flying along a few inches off the wall... and focus more on jumping with people and laughing..

we have lost many people in the last few years due to flying close to the walls..

look at the last 6 deaths (Oh gee wingsuit flying all collecting the wall in flight) except the last one opened close to the wall after flight and had line twists..

Really the list comes down to each and every jumper to be safe as they can...

If you want to push the limits then please let your loved ones know in your will that i will be calling for your information and picture to remember you by..

I and my mentor have our fatality picture already picked out,if i was to die my picture of me smiling with a ciggarette in my mouth when i smoked will be remembered with a smile, the way i want..

not having any information or a picture is a way to being forgotten..

To the community, really the cameras on your head were meant for yourselfs and friends in your area, not for people to watch and jack off too because ya flew a great line and made it..

Where did it all go wrong!!!


So if i contact you , dont be pissed or angry because you know the sport your in, its called BASEJUMPING

People die in this sport, if you get worried or frightened when i contact you then start making arrangements at starting coin collecting or stamp collecting you may get a paper cut instead..

Very good post Patto.

Patto, I am in awe of what you wrote!

Very well said.

Looks like you've been copying Nick's posts too bro. Now I'm fucking late for work

Right On.
Rick
38

I've got a lot of friends who have made it on the BFL. I appreciate the folks like Patto, Nick,(especially), who have kept their memory alive, I find the BFL to be interesting, informative, and most of all educational, I refer to it often, as a reminder of the fragile nature of life in general, I don't believe that I will end up as a BASE statistic,...I doubt that most people on the BFL felt that way either, as an active BASE WS flyer, I am curious, and concerned with the trend toward proximity flying and the very small margin of safety afforded by the pursuit, the majority of fatalities in BASE these days seem to be a result of this discipline, ( as too,the majority of fatalities in skydiving are a result of high speed canopy approaches), We should all pay attention to the trends in these sports that produce the highest incidences of accidents. Thanks for providing this invaluable information, by doing so you are undoubtably saving lives.
Regards,B.

+1

good post Patto

Well said.

Keep it up Patto.

- Grease

How about setting up an online database for people to upload a picture that they would like to be remembered by.

[..] if for one reason it saves another then i do believe i have done something for the community without asking for anything back [..]

+1

you're doing more than something for me, thanks so much for the effort you spend

I don't have a problem with the list, just the aggressive way info. is collected. Seriously.

Ginny

EDIT: stop holding back information just because you are sad. death effects us all but there is no reason that b/c of a person, or a group of peoples emotions, should the rest of the base community be negatively effected and unable to learn from the mistakes that have been made, thats the reason Patto and whoever else is working on the BFL, keep the BFL going.

Seriously? You're talking to the life partner of a jumper who went in. A little respect for that situation is definitely in order.

I've had friends go in. I never want to have to experience the death of someone even closer. I certainly don't think wanting some privacy or consideration during a time like that is "being a pussy."

I couldn't agree more. Let a little time pass and let the media vultures move on to another circle before it's made public. The info will be just as pertinent/important to other jumpers without being fodder for the press. And however well-intended getting the word out, a delay shows some sensitivity to the people and jumpers close to the deceased--for whom the deceased was far more than a lesson or a statistic.

+1

I've said it before and I will say it again now. If people refuse to learn from the information that is already available on the list then they probably deserve to be on it as well.
Seriously, you would need to be pretty creative to come up with a new/different incident that doesn't currently exist on the list in one way or another.

I was friends with the jumper in question. I'll just add to what others have said, stop being such a cunt. Have some respect for family and friends. The info about one particular incident coming out immediately after it happens isn't going to prevent shit. Jumpers will make bad decision regardless of what is written on that stupid list. Its called being human.

This community is small enough...show some class to your fellow jumper.

thats great, we are a small group, and as one of the things you should do when you hear someone wants to get into base jumping is to tell them to go read the BFL...when they see there is a pattern revolving around xyz, then it helps, it does make a difference in how long you wait, our memories are not that of a disc drive. the longer you wait the more diluted it becomes...small detail will be forgotten like if the jumper says something key before he leaves. (ie dwain, there are rumors surrounding him commiting suicide. that makes a huge difference in how the BFL is read.

Jbag. Show some fuck'n respect dude.

Read the last 4 words to your signature and take your own advice if this is how you treat fellow jumpers and loved ones left behind.

I watched my best friend die right in front of me. That was almost three years ago and I still remember every detail. The whole lost details thing is BS. It is morbid curiousity and arrogance that demands instant gratification. "I'm a jumper so I deserve to know!" Unless the fatality is specifically related to a gear failure and other are in imminent danger then it can wait a few days until those closely involved have had a chance to deal with everything. I gave a report when I was ready and I am pretty sure if I had some dipshit breathing down my neck demanding info for some website it wouldn't end well.

+10
Well said.

sorry man, love you and all, but i know you think you remember everything. Things that interfere with what you remember involves many sources. Including the environment, who you are with, what is being said, key words or seeds, etc etc.

im not gonna hammer this one, if you want i can provide different psychology books to you to read up on it. Its the reason why a detective doesnt wait a couple weeks, but does the shit job of trying to extract information from victims when it happens and not give them weeks to feel better before they tell what they think happened 2 weeks earlier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashbulb_memory just so im not talking out my ass...a link.

just saying it needs to be kept up...

fledgeling: thats it, were done learning? pack our things up. nah man, this is a short trial as it is with only 194, its a lot of FRIENDS as far as a study goes, it has a lot to be unearthed. Science, you cant explain it.

I'm not changing my sig line.

funny, use wikipedia for it is, there is a shit ton of references at the bottom for you to go through...

http://www.uic.edu/...Flashbulb_Memory.htm

http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~kihlstrm/flashbulb.htm

http://www.memorylossonline.com/...flashbulbmemory.html

http://www.intropsych.com/...lashbulb_memory.html

there, not only did i give you a new idea to think about and look into (point of wiki page) but then i gave you url's from universities like berkley and illinois.

Now go read.

What makes you think that you have the right to know every detail of every single death of a base jumper in the first place? Death is not " public domain". Even though it might satisfy your perverted need for names, numbers and details on an internet list, every dead jumper has also family and friends and the has thought maybe occurred to your mind that in the event of losing their loved one, they really do not give a shit if you get your details or not? The details of every accident will or will not be released once the time is right, it is the right of the people involved to deal with this as they please. At the end of the day it was their friend who passed on. And you sir, have really no right to demand anything from them "in the best interest of the sport". This is base jumping which is a very personal thing and each one of has the right to do as we please. If you want regulated and well defined incident reporting based on structured processes I suggest trying general aviation.

Never said to change it, just take your own advice with your last 4 words.

Firstly, half the dickheads I see in this sport anymore have no interest in learning in the first place. They are more concerned about when they will finally make a GoPro that automatically uploads to YouTube.
Secondly, I have nothing against learning from an incident. But after 200 fatalities if they still wanna go to Lauterbrunnen after 30 jumps of fly their wingsuit after 10 jumps or insist on knocking balloons from peoples hands while in freefall then the list will be of no help to them. There is already enough on the list to prevent most of the common fatalities that we are seeing repeated on a regular basis. Hence my statement that you would need to be pretty creative to come up with an incident that would be of further benefit to what is already on the list.

go fuck yourself jbag
and please tell us how it went on an incident report

I agree with Markus, every base jumping bounce should be a private affair where details are withheld as long as possible or never released at all. The friends jumping with the bouncee couldn't possibly have believed that anyone could die doing it, so you can't expect them to spend 5 minutes explaining to someone what happend. Every base jumping death is a tragedy and truly unexpected in sport with such a negligible incidient history. One could understand high risk sports like rock fishing wishing to collect information on fatalities, but there is no way it is half reasonable for a sport as safe as base jumping.

Keep bounces secret for ever and save the family the pain of ever even finding out they went in!

fuck yourself too udder (do it hard a and fast let us know how it goes on an incident report)

No fucking way man. The family and friends need time alone to appreciate me fucking myself hard and fast. Its a traumatic experience for all involved and they don't need me giving any descriptions in the weeks afterwards during this difficult period. Once they have done that, I might consider giving you a call so we can discuss. But given how super secret I am, and that no one will gain anything from watching me fuck myself hard and fast, you can go fuck yourself.

I had always accepted that if I went in, the details of what had happened and my decisions and actions that led to that would be reported on the BFL and that my family would probably see it at some point.
One of the guys I would jump with once said to me, if your ever questioning your decision to jump, consider how your fatality report would read if u go in on this jump. There were a few times I backed off or didn't jump because of that.

This is an emotional topic for many (or perhaps all) of us.

Let's try to keep it a discussion, and not fling insults at each other, please.