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Hi there.
It was long time that we were thinking about this mod, how to do it, how to "push" it and then, finally, after having long discussed (again) with my friend #1044 and with #1050 (#1050 is a superb ability rigger, in our group we call him "The Artist" because of his skills), taking the excuse to give to #1050 my Prism in order to get the dynamic corners modification, agreed with him, I gave #1050 the duty to implement the LLC- mod - LAST-LAST-CHANCE modification.
We started thinking about the LLC mod after all these accidents arising from a wide usage of wingsuit in the BASE environment, expecially those accidents coming from "nothing out", which means, basically, either a no pull (not found the handle?) or entanglement of bridle/PC / PC caught in the burble of wingsuit pilot.
Thinking about the above, we started thinking about <SOMETHING> that could cause the container to be opened, regardless of wether or not you threw the PC or did not find the handle or any whichever reason the container is not open and you are approaching the earth at terminal.
The LLC mod is NOT intend to substutite practice for reaching handle and PC throw, nor practice for launching the PC off the burble or whatever else.
The (possible) use of of LLC is the following:
I did all I had to do, go for the handle at the right time with the right movement, launch the PC far away off the burble, collapsing the wings, eventually moving left and right, and yet is coming out: at this stage, I am about to bounce: why not to get the container open?
I did all I had to do and I am about to bounce, if I had the chance of getting the container open (rerdless if I got the PC in the air or not), I would have a slight chance that the burble would pull the cloth of canopy out of the contrainer and finally get the complete canopy out above my had.
The possibility of getting the canopy deployed "simply" having the container open (without any PC in the air) is non-zero firstly because we have the information that #416 got (something like 10 years ago...) while flying his wingsuit using a BASE rig not yet at the "state-of-the-art", he found all of of sudden the open canopy above his head while still flyiong his wingsuit and WITHOUT having put hand to the handle.
A BASE canopy, free packed in the BASE rig, that starts deploying, is capable of getting rid of any horse shoe coming from the
PC still in the pouch.
Furthemore, from tales from #1050, who started skydiving in the 70's, #1050 skydived (for a short period) with a military container adapted to be jumped in the civilian environment (which container had (on left and right flap) heavy metallic stiffeners in the up-down direction) that was operated WITHOUT PC, it was operated ONLY releasing the rip cord which OLY caused the 4 flaps to be open: then the burble behind the skydiver's body caused the free-packed canopy to be extracted and get deployed.
So, after having long thought about LLC mod, and abover all, after having realized it, we see no danger in the mod, we see only a positive outcome in case the shit hits the fan in a very unlucky jump.
Say, it is like the AAD in the skydiving environment, you have it, you turn it on and then you forget about it: you do all you have to do, in case you get very unlucky after ahving done all the right things/manouvers/techniques, still yopu are appproaching earth at terminal, the ypour Cypres/Vigil activates your reserve.
LLC mod is thopught to have its helping feature in the same way: in my BASE wingsuit jump I do all I had to do, still if with nothing out I am approaching earth at terminal, there is no danger on pulling the release handle of LLC mod: if LLC does not work, still I will bounce as with a regular BASE rig, if LLC gets the canopy deployed, I am alive.
This is a LLC mod done on my single pin Prism rig: easily the LLC can be implemented on any other dual-pin BASE rig.
LLC mod SIMPLY works in the way that pulling the handle, the pin closing loop is released and so the 4 flaps are open.
Questions?

Some more pictures

looks good, nice work! seems logical to me.

although, that is a seriously ugly rig!

You are relying on the deploying canopy to clear the PC out of the pouch by itself (i.e. self clearing any possible horse shoe malfunction)?

Have you considered running a second piece of the yellow cable to cut away to BOC pouch, to make it easier to clear the PC (and therefore make a horse shoe malfunction less likely)?

First: I am about to die, so any small (additional) chance helps.
Second: it already happened twice to #416 that the deploying canopy extracted the PC from BOC, clearing any horse-shoe/whatever.
A POD (skydiving environment) is very unlikely that once in the air, can extract the PC from BOC.
A deploying canopy (free-packed into the container) is very likely that can extract the PC out of the BOC; yes, it's NOT a guarantee, but it happended and looks like it can happen again.

Yes, we considered that, plus considered also (advice by #283) to run yellow cable to release the 4 flaps (in such a case, the free-packed canopy would be completed exposed to air flow), but all this would require a complete re-design of BASE container.
What you see from the above picture is something that has been possible with a minimal amount of work/time; anything beyond that, requires a complete re-design of BASE rig (time/effort/money... ...it's not for nothing that nothing close to that has (yet) been seen in use on field...).

Is the bridal a part of your modification, if so what is the purpose of not using a standard bridal?

I like the simplicity

I was present for one of those incidents, and saw the rig he had that happen with.

The rig was _very_ loose. It could be closed without a pull up cord (just by hand pressure). The BOC was also quite loose on his PC.

I am not confident that his experience indicates any general ability of all BASE rigs to clear the PC out of the BOC in a near horse shoe situation.

Forget about the 5.5m dyneema cable which is my <special bridle> I use ONLY for SL jumps.
In slider off free-fall jumps and slider on terminal jumps, I ALWAYS use a standard thin webbing 9'-2.71m bridle.

I would buy a rig with that, very nice work! I'm sure it's a lot better than not getting anything out at all, I'm not worried about the horseshoe malfunction on a baserig at all. With leg-pouch PC even less.

Could it be an idea to "weakly" attach the BOC on one side, so it can rip open if snagged or horseshoed? Velcro-type force, but with stitches.

One of my concerns though, is the location of the cutaway-handle on my rig (APEX DP), which is on my right side. I'm so afraid of cutting away, or having a mal on my 3-ring so it releases. My next rig will be without 3-rings. BUT: if you place the LLC on the left side, I hope ppl don't go in because they first cutaway as a programmed reflex from skydiving!

On another note, is there an industry standard leg-strap release "seatbelt type" so I can move my cutaway to the legs rather than the 3-ring? Imagine how much better that would be for wingsuit water landings, u just unzip ws form top and release leg straps to drop out of the wingsuit AND rig right over the water! Can also be used when getting out of tree landings, so you can put a climbing harness on top of your legs first, then release the legstraps after.

I was thinking the same thing. Another thing I was wondering is exactly what scenario this is intended to resolve. It looks like an effective solution to the problem of a pilot chute in tow, but I don't know that I have ever heard of that happening on a BASE jump.

Another thing that I was wondering about is the soft cable housing. To say the least, I'm not a fan of those.

BTW, unlike the previous poster, I think that's a nice looking rig (except for the blue harness).

edited to add:
Unlike other safety add-ons, e.g., the RSL and AAD on skydiving rigs, if there is a potential downside to this modification, I don't see it. From the perspective of doing no harm, this seems to be a very clean mod.

I know this is a strange thought, but does anyone else keep having the thought about this being somewhat like a Racer skydiving rig's reserve ripcord and maybe an emergency mod with some sort of spring loaded pilot chute might be a viable option?

Walt

Very nice work. I'm pleased to see that someone has taken the time and effort building the system that was discussed here http://www.basejumper.com/...rum.cgi?post=2891750 some years ago. For wingsuiting I would maybe choose a different location for the handle. A place that would be more easily reachable with inflated wings. Maybe as low as possible on main lift webbing, with cable routing via the lateral webbing. One question, how tight closing loop tension is possible with your system without the yellow cable bending too much into the closing loop grommet? Could the cable end be constructed from the black hard plastic coating wire used for example in the spring loaded pc ripcords?

btw. I also believe that if the canopy gets any air to start deploying it, the chance it will clear the horse shoe is quite high.

V

There has been numerous fatalities with PC not inflating / working for various reasons (malfunction, bungee cord holding the pc, misrigging, knot). For example #72 Lukas Knutsson

V

The LLC is intended to resolve the situations (in wingsuit BASE jumps) where I should have the open canopy above my head but I DO NOT, which are:
1) I reached the PC handle, I grabbed, I threw in clean air but still nothing out = PC in tow
2) I tried to reach the handle but I couldn't find it/I found the handle but due to wing fabric in the way I cannot get the PC to be thrown off side
LLC is addressed to resolve the situations: <I am supposed to have an open canopy above my head, earth/ledge is very close, I tried to reach for the handle/I tried to launch the PC and I have not yet got an open canopy above my head>

Agreed with the PC not inflating properly, but I was thinking in terms of the classing skydiving PC in tow where the PC *is* inflated and the bridle is fully extended but the container will not open. Clearly, this mod will *fully* handle that situation and may not even require the handle to be pulled because it uses cutaway cable, which conceivably could be pulled through the grommet by the force of the PC.

For the scenario where there is a serious PC malfunction or hesitation, this mod looks like it might help and would not make the situation worse.

For the horseshoe scenario, when altitude is running out and there is nothing to lose, it might help and would not make the situation worse.

It does not look like it really resolves the problem of the jumper being unable to extract the pilot chute, but again, it will not make the situation worse.

Walt

So there is an assumption that there will be significant airflow over the jumpers back that will pull the canopy off of the jumpers back due to the container being open?

I am thinking in terms of emergency procedures. If a jumper is in the scenario where he pulls the LLC, should he also *ensure* airflow over his back by rolling to the side?

Walt

Yes. According to tales by #1050, at the times (+20 years ago) he jumped (deploying from box = falling vertical) a military-modified-for-civilian-jumps-rig where (while the canopy was free packed into it) you pulled the ripcord, releasing the 4 flaps (WITHOUT any PC at all (forget a spring loaded PC)) and the turbulence behind your back got the canopy out.

Yes, it would help a lot.
Scenario being: I did what I had to do (grab and pull the handle and throw PC off side or tried to grab the handle), earth is approaching in a matter of seconds, nothing is out, I pull the LLC handle, anything else (rolling to the side for example) is going to help.

Yes, I do agree IN THEORY that it is a very good idea (wingsuit speaking) to have the LLC handle very low in the main lift webbing.
Nonetheless, this is only possible in a designed-from-scratch BASE rig.
The only possibility on my Prism to put the LLC handle is exactly where you see it on pictures (unless you go for a radical modification, but it would be simpler to manufacture a completely new BASE rig), for 2 main reasons:
1) the LLC handle is on the right side simply because the closing loop on Prism is on right side flap: LLC handle on right side on main lift webbing means the shortest way to go from closing loop to handle
2) the LLC handle so "high" in the main lift webbing is the only possible position because slightly lower than present position there is the attachment of chest strap, below chest strap there is the 3-ring-release handle and so there is no other position to place LLC handle than just above chest strap attachment.

One simple answer.
The length of "special "8-shaped-closing-loop" is EXACTLY the same length of my old-conventional-knotted-closing-loop, so the (extra)tightness of closing loop is a non-issue for me.
I always pack the same canopy (Fox 245 with valves and Multi), obviously I pack slightly different from jump to jump (SL-sloder off free-fall-subterminal-terminal) but in the end the packing volume is always the same, so I get no extra tightness on closing my Prism, also with new closing system.

Yes, we do believe the same

I got one more idea cuz I'm not a big fan of the cutaway cables. What if you used a miniature hook-knife inside a plastic holder which requires a given force to release the knife. I think that could make the design smaller and also give more freedom as to where the cutaway handle needs to be. You only really need a piece of string inside a tube to go to the knife, I think.

Yes, it would be doable, but, again, would need time and effort to find such a miniature hook knife.
The siystem you see in my Prism has been done with standard equipment/accessories/components already in possession of a rigger (my friend #1050) and done in a couple of hours or work.

Why the design would be smaller?!?!?
Again: the handle position is "compulsory" there where it is now due to the presence (in the right side main lift webbing) of chest strap and of 3-ring release handle, NOT to the fact that what is going to be pulled is a yellow cable or a "string" by which you operate a miniture hook knife

Again: colud be done, but I do not see how the "string" would make the system "smaller".
Still, such a string must "slide" into a sheath/tube/whatever and CANNOT be too thin otherwise would get cauhght by sharp bending of "string" itself inside the sheath.
But what is exactly "BIG" in my present system?
If you saw me with rig donned and ready to jump, apart form the (white) LLC handle on right side of main lift webbing, you wouldn't (and couldn't) note anything strange in my rig, and also if you would open the pin closing flap, it would not so easy to notice that the closing loop is an 8-shaped closing loop, in any case NOT bigger than standard closing loop.

EDIT: Thinking about the miniature hook knife, I think it would NOT be a great idea to have a (miniature) hook knife there, with a sharp blade ready at any time to cut the closing loop... ...how would you ensure that the blade would stay "for ever" in position WITHOUT moving a bit and cutting only when operated throught the handle?
If, along successive jumps and packings and donnings rig on and whatever else movement, there is a blade very close to my closing loop, to avoid such a blade to come in contact with my cloing loop I should invent a bomb-proof system that would
keep SEPARATED (=far) from closing loop whenever not needed (=99.999% of time) and move fast indeed when required to do so.
A yellow cable hasn't got at all the danger of unwillingly cutting/releasing the closing loop: if the LLC handle is in position, the closing loop is in position, when I pull the LLC handle, the closing loop become loose and free.
I do not want to enforce the fact that our LLC system is perfect: still there can be improvements, still can be radically new way of doing it (=release the closing loop) but with radical re-designs of BASE rig.
Our LLC system is what is easily doable (and done) within a couple of hours of work with components already available in any rigger workshop.
Whenever it will hit hit the market a BASE rig which will have the capability of cutting away at the same time (by the pulling of one single handle) all the 4 closing flaps (and release the BOC as well (as long as you place the PC in container's BOC and not in the leg pouch )), I will go for it.
In the meantime, we did the above system
And I am jumping it with no side effect
Slider off jumps - slider up jumps, I do not even notice my rig has LLC system in place

sorry mate, didn't mean to be disrespectful of your work! I think I must make some pictures of my suggestions to give you a chance to understand my design proposal. I'm only coming with this because I don't like the yellow cutaway cable to be all that holds my container together :) Pics are coming up soon.

No worries, mate!!!!
I posted here to have comments and ideas, NOT to be said: "Oh, how good you are, oh, how clever you are, oh, how intelligent you are!"
The decision in the end to go for such a system (perfectable indeed) is that, AFTER YEARS spent speaking of a perfect closing-loop-release-system, or, better, 4-flaps-and-BOC-release-system, quite complicated indeed, quite "perfect", yes, but NOBODY came along with something real, still a LOT of speaches, a lot of words, a lot of ideas, but no real BASE rig with anything resembling a closing-loop-release-system, the 3 of us opted for a system that could be:
1) easily done within few hours of work
2) with components already present in the workshop of (any) rigger
3) having zero negative issues (=cannot cause danger (if well maintained/well taken care))
Again: as soon as a better system (than ours) will hit the market, I will abandone my Prism (even if I would jump it for other 12 years in the future) and go for thew new BASE rig

Very nice idea and concept!
Thanks
+1

It would be bulky and cost a bit to fabricate, but you could place an "ejection spring" under a cover on the floor of the pack tray, and run a secondary cable to release it. When you pulled the handle you would be releasing the closing loop and activating a spring loaded system to push the canopy out of the tray.

Very nice thought, indeed, the one of the spring.
Come to my my 2 random thoughts:
1) cannot be implemented on any existing "as is" rig because the covered-spring would required a lot of room in a way that the present canopy cannot go inside present container (=should be done either on a +1 size/+2 size container vs. canopy or on a new-from-scratch rig)
2) instead of having a second release cable, the release handle could release only the closing loop; though, there would be two small holes at the sides of the spring, holes from inner tray to back of jumper, passing-through holes, in order to pass a TEMPORARY packing cord to keep the spring compressed, then you pack normally, when you have closed the container, you untie this spring-compressing-cord and then don the rig on; when in case you pull the LLC handle, you get the closing loop loose and then the 4 flaps come open and then the spring is "free" to push the canopy off.

Wouldn't you have to reset the spring every time you packed, that way?

Yes
The spring-loaded-with-one-release-cable pack tray version of LLC would get indirectly that any time you throw the PC and get the container open, the spring would help to push the canopy out at ANY deployment and ANY time you pack you must reset the spring.
The spring-loaded-with-two-release-cables pack tray version of LLC would pay a slightly more complicated system (one handle that would release 2 yellow cables, 1 for releasing closing loop and 1 for releasing the spring) but would get the day-by-day packing of canopy <as-before> (you set the spring once and unless used, it remains "hidden").

Was also discussed years ago, but doomed as too complicated... Maybe the time was not right.

V

sounds like a gnarly snag hazard, especially if expected to operate on every jump.

going the direction of overcomplicated.

what ever happened to the 'swiss pouch' idea - doesnt this idea solve some of the problems listed in the original post?

Was this deemed unpractical or are people still working on this idea?

Why?

You'd fully enclose the spring inside some sort of elastic/spandex sleeve, or use an accordion type cordura setup. I'm not convinced there would be any snag hazard at all.

I'm not very convinced that any of these ideas ought to be on every BASE rig, but it's always interesting to explore them.

Nice work, thanks a lot for the detailed report! I'm following this discussion with large interest, because I just finished building a similar system. So I hope we can share some experience.

What I have at the moment is a completely selfmade two-pin-rig. It has a pin-release-option and also the BOC-release-option. Both are operated by the same handle. I'll post some photos later.


Nice idea, I tried exactely this. Unfortunately it doesn't work, because there's a vacuum between the two layers of fabric where the spring was located. So what you would need is not a spring, but some kind of airbag.

Couldn't you just build a mesh side onto the spring "pocket"?

Hi, finally had some time to draw up what I was thinking, which I think is very similar to your system but with using hook-knives installed on rails/slider to keep them in the right place.

To resolve the horseshoe-chance, I "invented" a BOC mounted on a rigid piece of fabric in one end, which is mounted with a closing loop. The idea is that the hook knife slides in its tray when pulled to cut the loop of the upper pin first, then the lower pin and BOC.

If people want a spring there too, it could be mounted in the same place as the lower pin, and be cut loose by the same closing loop as the BOC is attached to. It would have to be covered by another rigid-ish flap, but that would also keep it out of the way when packing. There would be no maintenance or winding up because it's always out of the way, only activated when cutting away BOC.

I hope this makes it easier to understand all my earlier ramblings!

sorry, this just keeps going on and on!

... but if we installed an inflatable sack under the rig, and a cartridge that could inflate it, we could eliminate the spring as the cushion would lift the fabric of the canopy out of the container. If velcro comes back to wingsuiting, we wouldn't even need the cutaway system for closing loops. This cushion would also serve as a buoyancy device when landing in water, and could save your back if landing in the stones, if it's designed the right way.
http://youtu.be/TX_YIr5CkDM

Maybe yes, but I'm not sure if a thin layer of mesh is enough to protect the spring against being a snag hazard. And you still need some kind of disc / reinforcement on top of the spring. If this is too large, it will probably create a vacuum itself. So generelly, it would take a lot of time and trying out different designs, so I skiped it for the moment.


Hm, also a good idea to think about. Maybe you could even use cypres cutters in this case. There's a lot of "cutting-loops-experience" in the skydiving world. It shows you should cut the loop as close as possible to the top to get a safe deployment. Cutting a loop at the bottom maybe won't open the container.

Question regarding the LLC:
Did you ever test the force that is needed to pull your pin-release-handle? I also tried a yellow cutaway cable first, and soon found out I got very high pull forces. Even with a hard housing and metal pins it's still a lot, and I'm still not satisfied with the required force.

My own second-chance-rig:

It was not too easy to build a two-pin rig with a pin-release-option, because normally the pins are located on the top and bottom flap.

The "reserve" handle is located on the left side. I wanted it to be there because everyone that skydives is used to have the reserve there. The position above the chest strap is chosen because I have to pull the handle quite far to open the BOC, and if I put the handle to low my arms are too short ;-).

wow! nice work Susanne!

Maybe a stupid question from a skydiver (who just lurks here): but might a simplier solution be a rig with a separate reserve compartment?

I have no idea what the container/packing/layout criteria are for a base rig, but would it be out of the question to add a reserve compartment, even a small one to take even a 100sqft piece of cloth?

I mean, this strikes me as a hail mary type of move going for a miracle save: almost immediate extraction without a pc when you think you are about to impact (because if you had more time, you'd probably try again on the PC, right?)

Psychologically, would the jumper use it in time? What are the odds that this will actually save you if it did open the container verses the inconvienence and or danger/complication of designing a rig with a separate reserve compartment?

Very nice work!
Why you have decided to do the routing of loops?
It works better?
Thanks to share;)

A two-canopy BASE rig already existed, the Sorcerer. It didn't get common use because of the bulk, the weight, the low altitude BASE jumpers usually pull... At least, that's the way I understand it.
But maybe it's time to rethink the idea with the newer technology in mind (e.g. lightweight fabrics).
Maybe you could place a mini-reserve inside of the back deflector of a wingsuit. Have a look at the CORE from S-FLY. There should be more than enough place. Of course it would require decent piloting so you end up high enough over the ground and far enough away from the wall.

while we are brain storming i think it would be cool if the cutters where pyrotecnic cypres type yes im aware our closing loops and tension are unsuitable with a cool guarded switch on the mudflap as for reserves i think rounds are the way forward. you dont cut away your mal you just deploy the round into it or lack of it so to speak like the paragliders etc much less height required. the problem with reserves in base is conventional skydiver think for the proceedure and deployment, and want of a perfectly open square and tiptoe landing, its time to compromise.

I wanted to have a two-pin-rig. With the standard loop position on the top and bottom flap, you would need two separate long housings for the release cable. This will add some extra bulk, and most likely cause quite high pull forces. So I looked for a solution to put the loops on the left side flap, and still close the container with the top and bottom flap first.

There are base reserves (round chest mounted). One was developed by the german base association, and there is the BaseR. They work, but add a lot of weight and also drag.

Adding a standard reserve container makes the system very complex. A single canopy rig eliminates a lot of potential problems.
If you have a two-canopy-rig, and think the reserve is just a little bit more reliable than the main, why not use it every time?

Thanks!
Have you any pics of how works The cable for BOC release inside The container?

The cable is in a hard housing, that runs from the release handle to the corner of the BOC. As the rig is already assembled, it will be quite hard to take good pics, but if I find the time I'll try it.

Thanks again to share your xperience!
Don't worry for The pic!

Have nice And safe jumps ;)

ok, my turn...
i still dont know why were building something like this (i think this helps only in very very occasions), but tinkering around and thinking about new stuff is fun, so here we go.

first off, lanyard to both pins. pin has to be fed through lanyard, then loop. in the pictures attached kind of a rough version of it.
more room inbetween pins on lanyard necessary, velcro housing for line/cable to handle along the edge of the flap has to be done (pic 01), i just used small parapck patches to tuck the lanyard in, could be done with verlco aswell (pic 01, arrows) pic 03 shows the pin being pulled by the lanyard.
im completely aware that this mod resticts the movement of the pin, and therefore the force necessary by the pc to pull it when force is coming from certain direction (unstable deployment,etc) but i dont think that lack of pullforce would be a problem on terminal jumps. boc cutaway is optional.

second, use a skyhook on the regular bridle (pic 05) and route the skyhook lanyard to a springloaded pc (pic 06, pink). pc should be pop-top-style one (for example one from a teardrop 1 pin), pin and cable to it can be build into the sideflap (pic 06, orange). additional to this cutting away the boc would be necessary (pic6, yellow, pic 07) while i think its enought to cutaway just the first 2 inches of the boc spandex to prevent a horseshoe and that would help keeping the pullforces low.

both are not install-and-forget, they have to be set up every packjob, also quite a lot of testing would be required. im not going to build version2, and im not planning on jumping version1 at the moment. although i like the idea of version1, because its simple, easy to build and setup, but still without testing too many variables. if im bored im gonna do pullforce tests...

take care!
ciao!
hirschi

Love yer work, and your creativity...I personally still choose the K.I.S.S. method for BASE safety. This seems to be far from that, but I'll be anxious to see how it develops!

I like the idea if any new safety features, as well as last chance effort is better than not, but is would find ground level where you activate it, so you would have to be at the lz when tithing it on, and it send to me, most nothing out impacts happen hill side, not in the la. Just a couple of my thoughts, although I am all for progressive thinking!
P.s. I missed yall.

Regarding the lanyard system. How often lately has a stuck pin been the source of a malfunction? Among the publicized, recent, gear-related incidents, it seems to be more of other factors. i.e. bridal wraps, poor pitch technique, poor PC inflation. (Not even counting no/low pulls, object strikes, other)

Those other things scare me, not my pins. I feel pretty good they will pop when they are supposed to, if my bridle is pulling the way it would need to in order to extract the canopy in time.

If the PC can't pull hard enough to pop properly functioning pins, by the time you noticed, do you have any chance of the lanyard system saving you?

If a properly inflated PC can't generate enough force to pop a stuck pin, can your hand do it? PCs pull pretty hard

(Fortunately these are testable questions)

youre right, its a good question why were thinking about a system like that because the issue is not a big killer out in the field. id say its fun to think about it and tinker around...
the whole thing (all cutaway systems in this thread) are intended for all kinds of mals, bridle pc entangelemt, pc not found with wingsuit, etc...

and maybe someone comes up with a solution that does not add complexity, works perfectly, and doesnt cost a lot, then maybe that thing is in 5 years as popular as WLOs are now.

also i have to add that i love the simplicity of baserigs in general, and actually dont want to have it like a tandem rig with cables, cutaways, and handles all over the place.

same goes for all systems in this thread... when in a wingusit and pulling 400m above the ground, youve got a good chance, tracking and pulling below 100m is gonna get tight, jumping a 70m bridge and youre fucked...


no, dont think so, 36" ZP AV, will have pullforce somewhere between 35 an 75kg, added friction on lanyard, i dont think that one can pull that, maybe with 2 hands, but i actually dont think so...

That is not true, there are at least 2 incidents involving pc-bridle wraps (knot over pc), both guys were saved by pulling the bridle in the last seconds directly with their hand.
Can somebody find the posts, I'm having a hard time doing that..

that above was about a malfunction where the PC is fine, and pulling as intended, but still not opening the rig for some reason (eg, shrivel flap snagged in somewhere and locking bridle)

besides that youre right, its not gonna be a problem to pull the pins...

One of the saves was Subadivemaster, he posted pics and a description here, http://www.basejumper.com/...post=2942758#2942758. Scary shit! Don't remember reading the other post your referring to. Anyone else got a link?

Looks like I have my memories messed up.. The second guy: bfl 169 He could have been saved if he had something like the LLC system

Great work Before anything is said..

Would a velcro'd boc not be a solution to your horse show problem, looking something similar to a line stowage on a base rig??

Either a system which completely comes off or one that comes off on one side or another..

think the idea is great, and some of the rigging is awesome, good luck with the project.

What about a laced cutaway on one side. Spectra threaded though the cutaway with a loop and a pin at the boc opening and a bungy at the other end running as far up the sidewall of the container as need to create enough tension/distance to pull the spectra trough the laces. Set it up so that when the cutaway cuts the loops it also releases the boc a moment before.

That or pack the pilot chute so that the bridle can pull the PC out of the BOC. LIke germains skydive method

Yes yes yes.....

And it goes full circle..... :-)

Not as ugly like the sofa and the floor. ;-)

Yup, it's picking up more momentum https://www.facebook.com/Wingpouch/?fref=nf

I'm really excited about the idea of a wingtip pouch + these LLC mods. If people start moving this direction with the gear, I could easily see it becoming common for WS BASE jumpers to have a separate set-up specialized for WS BASE and keeping the non-WS BASE rigs the way they are.