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Hi, I'm a new BASE jumper thinking of buying my first BASE rig. I want to buy a Seven and Pedigree Pro. I have a mentor, I trust he has my best interests at hand, but he has his idiosyncrasies and I can never never fully trust someone who has even a little bit of financial interest in my development. I want a rig that is versatile--I want something that I can use for 400 ft bridges and terminal cliffs. With these parameters in mind, what are my best options for pilot chutes and sliders? Keep in mind that I have enough skydives to move to BASE and I've read some of the literature (including the Great Book of BASE), but I would like a nice objective response to my question. Any advise is welcome.

I'd like to recommend a BASE canopy, a BASE container, and a mesh slider. Listen to your mentor or go take a class, dude.

Sliders are selected by the manufacturer as part of the design process. If you use something that is not the stock slider for your canopy, then you are a test jumper. If the manufacturer offers different sliders, for your application (terminal cliffs) I'd go with a small mesh slider.

You will need a 42" PC for the 400' bridges, and a small PC for the terminal cliffs, probably a 32".

Are you intending to use a tracking suit or wing suit off those terminal cliffs? If so, you may want to adjust (upward) the size of the PC, or get another for use with the wing suit.

I'd recommend:

Stock slider, small mesh if there is an option;
42" A/V PC, no handle;
32" A/V PC, external handle;
possibly also 38" A/V PC, external handle or floating handle.


I would probably not recommend a Toxic PC, since you aren't going to be jumping any really technical objects, so the extra $100 or so probably isn't worth it. Also, as a beginner, you are more likely to put a hole in the PC on landing, which means that you'd rather wait a hundred jumps or so before throwing down the cash on a Toxic.


Note that I do not consider this suggested set up suitable for solid, slider down objects (low cliffs, buildings, etc), but that for your intended use (400 ft bridges and terminal cliffs), it's going to be good.


Oh, and it's Perigee (the point in an orbit when an object is closest to the Earth--makes sense for a BASE rig), not Pedigree (lineage or descent of a person or animal or group of persons or animals).

Treating one source of information as Gospel is pretty silly. The God of Abraham did not descend onto Mount Zion and hand out the Rules of BASE on stone tablets. Which means your course, mentor, manufacturer, or internet voices do not have any hard and fast "for sure" answers.

Asking for second, third and fourth opinions as your formulate your own is always a good idea. In the end, you must fully own and be happy with your own decisions, because the potential consequences are enormous.

Simply taking your mentor/instructor/manufacturer's opinions and adopting them as your own without further consideration isn't a very good way to proceed through a totally unregulated activity with potentially catastrophic consequences.

Thanks for your answer man. I will be jumping bridges for a while before I move up to antennas, buildings, terminal and sub-terminal cliffs. So by the time I'm jumping cliffs, I'll probably be using a tracking suit. I trust my mentor, but it's always good to listen to 2nd and even 3rd opinions on this matter.

I fully agree with you. That's why I'm here hoping to get as much advice as I can from people who know far more than I do. I'm listening to my mentor, the manufacturer and the rest of the BASE community so I can make my own informed decision on this matter.

Fuck that. You're bending my point in typical internet fashion, Tom. It's a BASE canopy, not a blood transfusion. If you ask the peanut gallery here than you are going to get 10 responses with 10 different answers. If I've learned anything from this forum it is that forums are for passing along opinions and funny pictures.

To the OP, if your "mentor" has a financial interest then he is not a mentor, at best he is a coach.

but can you trust random advice from those responding on an internet forum? my experience is that many replies are likely to come from low-timers. these then elicit more mocking style responses.

never trust anyone's opinions blindly (imho - ). trust the rationale behind the opinions (when it makes sense).

Tom, for example, can always say WHY. others may disagree, but so? develop YOUR judgement so you can trust it with your life.

How big are you? What size canopy are you going to jump? Have you tried calling up Marty and asking what he recommends?

After playing around a bit, my personal preference is:
36" ZP Vented - roughly 1000' and higher
38" ZP Vented - 700 - 1000
42" ZP Vented - 300 - 800ish
46" ZP - Below 300

This seems to work well with a regular Flik 242 (4 vents), a Flik Lite 242 (3 vents) and a Trango (no vents). They aren't hard and fast rules either (I've done the 42 and 36 at 850, the 38 at terminal, etc.) but the above configuration seems to work pretty well for me.

I prefer a fine mesh slider, since at lower airspeeds the mesh shouldn't affect the drag on the slider as much, and at higher speeds it slows the opening a little better.

My $0.02 - Assuming you aren't jumping a super large canopy, start with a 42 (vented or not) and a slider (fine mesh or large mesh), and experiment from there.

!!!!

pilot chutes and sliders?

why stress?

they are relatively cheap. take a stab at it, then adjust to fit YOUR preferences.

some jumpers have 8+ pc's. others have 2. the key is to make YOU comfortable on the exit point. gear fear sucks.

think of it like beer. until you try a variety, how do you know which one YOU works best for you?

For one: I don't trust anyone blindly, that's why I'm here...to gauge a range of opinions and facts from people who know far more than I do. I see nothing wrong with that. Taking the advice of my mentor, of fellow BASE jumpers I meet, the manufacturer, and of those online with experience (I hardly believe that anyone here really wants me to kill myself).

I am 5'10 155 lbs. My mentor recommended a canopy anywhere between 245-260. I'm leaning towards a 260. Canopies and containers seem pretty straightforward, but being only a skydiver I'm truly confused pilot chutes and sliders.

you'd be surprised at the number of people with less than 20 BASE jumps that offer advice here...

you'd also might be surprised at the tongue-in-cheek "advice" that gets offered.

you're lucky. this thread has been taken seriously.

People can evaluate the quality of advice for themselves--in fact, they have to as a regular part of BASE jumping.

If the poster is a known quantity, then their advice is likely to bear more weight. When Todd posts in a thread about bottom skin inlets, that's just as much his (valid) opinion as if you walked into Apex in Perris and talked to him in person (or called him on the phone, or wrote him an email).

The quality of advice here is actually often better than the advice I've seen offered to new jumpers in person by helpful (and often equally new) jumpers. The difference is that here everyone can see what's been said, and contradict it if they want to. When a "mentor" with 20 jumps gives his advice to his student in person, there is often no one around to offer an opposing viewpoint.

Valid information can be gained from these forum discussions--if we do not let them devolve into postings of random pictures and jokes. I'd suggest that the random jokes and photos belong in the social forums and not in the Technical forum.

I do feel pretty lucky actually. I don't think anyone has come on here to mock me, or give me random advice. I may be a complete novice, buy I'm not an idiot...I didn't watch some video on Youtube and say "Hey I'm going to start BASE jumping for that next rush." I've done my homework, I've talked to some excellent BASE jumpers, I've researched the products, I've made my bones skydiving, and now I'm just looking for some extra help. I appreciate all the responses and PMs I've gotten.

If you're going to travel much I'd go with the 260ish sizes. If you're likely to do a lot off jumps of antennas with fairly open landing areas (pretty common where you live) in relatively windy conditions, the 240ish canopies might be a better choice. Since you already said you plan on traveling for terminal walls and 400' bridges (neither of which is very available in Florida), I'd guess the 260ish canopies will be a better size for you.

I'd say more like 11, not ten.

Yes.

And then you can evaluate the answers you get and decide for yourself what makes sense, looking at the reasons given by each person offering advice.

It's kind of like real life, that way.

So my whole point was that if you have a trusted mentor to guide you, take advantage of that until you 1) meet other people whose opinions you can trust. and 2) have a comfortable knowledge of the basics surrounding BASE specific gear.
Apparently thats not the complete consensus, and coming from who is disagreeing, I can respect that. But I was exactly where you are, and did exactly what you did, and now kinda wish I hadn't because it was pointless asking these not so "technical" questions. A good mentor is a freakin gift, so I hope you have a good one who can explain these things and help you choose, and not just give his/her opinions and says "this" or "that."
As you start jumping you will quickly meet alot of people, and you will quickly sort out who is quality and who is bullshit.

This thread has the pedigree that fits in the beginner forum


Dumbass internet...

I see your point OuttaBounZ but I also feel where the OP is coming from. I was taught by a guy who was the primary instructor for BR. My "course" was not through BR but I still paid this guy some $$$. So being that he worked for a major (at that time one of only just a few) BASE man. he got a lot of free gear. He was somewhat bias on that particular brand which is understandable. So I bought BR gear (not brand new) which is excellent gear and ended up switching down the road to a different man. as I gained more exp.

I do agree though, getting advise from an actual person, especially at the exit pt. is much more valuable than some silly internet forum.

Haha...I know the name, but I was a little tipsy when I made my original post,

Thank you. This is what I'm talking about. My mentor will go out his way to give me free training, but he still has to make a living himself, and he clearly has a bias towards certain equipment and methods of doing things, and that is why I'm looking for other opinions. I believe the more I learn from the experienced the better.

You don't listen to advice very well. I told you to post on the Beginners forum on this site when I replied to your post on dz.com.

Like I said, 75 skydives and with your gear knowledge, you are good to go. Just wear a GroPro.

It is worth the investment.

So, did you get what you were looking for on DZ dot com? Tell the Whole story, cart before horse.

Hi, I have 75 skydives and I recently sold my rig. My primary goal is to start BASE jumping. I realize that I'm far off from that goal, but I wanted some advice from those far more knowledgeable than myself. I've been considering buying a Seven and Pedigree Pro BASE rig hoping that I can use a chest reserve to use this rig for skydiving while I increase my skydiving experience before I start BASE jumping and save some money along the way. The BASE rig is two pin and acceptable for opening at terminal speeds. I've been advised by fellow BASE jumpers to jump my BASE rig before using it on an actual BASE jump--I feel the experience will only help me to understand my rig before actually taking the long step into BASE jumping. Could someone far more experienced than me advise me as to whether or not this is a reasonable option or not. Is there a better option for someone in my situation?


Hope you don't try to short cut too much with 75 skydives, buddy!!

You keep mentioning your mentor, who is he? Everyone in Florida knows everyone in Florida, maybe we should talk to your mentor and tell him he needs to put a short leash on you. Common since would tell you if you buy a Se7en and it doesn't have a slider to contact the manufacturer and get one. Or you could just have one made for the size canopy you have. I have two canopies and three sliders, none of which came with the canopy and they are made from three different people. I have jumped different sized and different sized mesh on the same canopy to pick which one I liked best for what I was doing. It's sounds like you don't know what the fuck you are talking about and you are trying to hard to fit in.

How about something like this:

"Hey guys, still in the learning process and have a question about sliders and pc's. What's the difference in fine mesh or large mesh and the different sizes on the pc's? Do you change them out on different objects or for different delays? I'm just trying to gain some knowledge. Or I would prefer someone to point me in the right direction to research this on my own. Thanks in advance, you guys rock!"

I'm pretty sure I never came to any of you with any sort of arrogance. I'm bright enough to recognize that I don't know anything. I'm not a BASE jumper, I'm a skydiver who knows myself well enough to know that I want to BASE jump. This is a personal decision, not a communal one--I have a hard time believing that your truly concerned about my welfare and not about your own pride. Why can't you be a teacher instead of a critic? By the time I start BASE jumping I'll probably have 150 jumps under my belt; I'll have a mentor holding my pilot chute for me while I jump off the Perrine two dozen times. So please, quit throwing your pride in my face, I get it you guys are good and have achieved something that the vast majority of people could never do--I don't need criticism I need advice.

At 75 jumps you're barely a skyjumper.

You're.

Well? Are you or aren't a BASE jumper? No your not. To be 'NEW' BASE jumper, you must have first made a BASE jump



Well there you go. If you can't trust your real living mentor, how are you going to trust someone who you have never met in person?


No you don't.

Re-read page 26. It says "Do 150-200 skydives"




Well here is your nice objective response to your question...
Forget about BASE right now. Grow up. Get a bunch of skydives. The next time around, do some for-real research. Everything you need to know is out there. Teaching someone bears a lot of responsibility. No one wants to watch their student die because he didn't put forth any effort. You don't understand what you are getting yourself into. I bet you've been online looking at how to build a box rig haven't you?


I'm not throwing my pride in your face. I have no pride. I'm throwing your ignorance in your face.

Read this.

I humbly disagree.

there is certainly enough information already posted on this site and elsewhere to answer your question for any wannabee. the technical differences of which a few spoke matter mostly to those past beginner status.

you do not appear to value what has already been said. you only value information directed toward YOU. I'd think that may qualify as arrogance. (it could also mean you lack the general knowledge to understand what has been previously posted.)

I could be wrong. many believe so.

btw...
I moved this thread from Technical to Beginner.

Fucking hell. Can't we ever just fucking answer a question without yelling at someone to grow the fuck up and go learn elsewhere? Other people read the forums, many of whom never post, and someone may just do a search years from now looking for info and hell, it may be an experienced or relatively new jumper.

So what if this particular guy's a douchebag? If every fucking post devolves into "get more skydives" and "go away" wtf is the point?

Why does anyone even bother reading this shit anymore?

+1.

When we started this place, the whole point of a beginners forum was to give people a place to ask dumb questions like "How do I get into BASE jumping" without a bunch of guys jumping down their throat for not reading everything on the internet.

Now it's become a place where the sharks swim in circles waiting to pounce on the unsuspecting new guy and tear him to pieces.

Seriously, people, do we not remember what it was like to be the new guy who didn't already know all the answers?

i remember i got shit thrown in my face and i deserved it still do but just keep jumping and get past it i guess he should just jump and them be a real base jumper

I know what it's like to be the new guy. I still am. If you really have the passion to base jump (that's what it takes), then you won't let people on an Internet forum bother you. However, you should take their advice because it's worth a lot. It may even save your life where the great book of base didn't. Be a good humble person and you will make it far in the sport. Be an arrogant asshole and you could rise to the top...or you could die and be completely forgotten.

It wasn't posted in the beginner forum to begin with, and it wasn't really a technical question. I to have asked many dumb questions on here, and most of the time after I was shit on for a few dozen posts I realized that the answers are learned in the field with people who know what the hell they are doing, not online with fuckin yahoos like myself that can't wait to post something ridiculous because they find it pathetically entertaining. Therefore I say -1.

I don't like to be serious, nor do I like responses that are truly mean. But I do have a lot of respect for those who can make me laugh with a overtly sarcastic post.

Oh, and sorry you're mad Shegget.

Come on guys, are you really going to be pissed at me because I posted on the wrong part of the forum. Like I said before, I never came here with any sort of arrogance; I came here looking for help. By the time I start jumping I'll have at least 150 jumps under my belt--I advance pretty quickly, and manufacturers take a long time to get your shit. If you're really concerned about my welfare than go ahead and post; I don't need some arrogant asshole to tell me what I should and should not be doing--you were all newbies once.

Assume I have 250 jumps, which should come up quickly--I just want some schooling, not arrogant BS because you were all new to this sport at one time.

Yeah, the mods can be pretty mean.

But honestly, there are some questions that shouldn't be answered over the internet. Remember the guy who jumped the S a couple bridges before the one he was looking for in Washington State? I think it might be the lowest survived stowed freefall to date (could be wrong). Anyway, I think there is still some fear that people will take the info they get here and apply it before they really know what they are doing. Tossing around info in the "technical" forum can be like handing someone a loaded gun without teaching them weapon safety. And its pretty easy to tell, even for a noob like me, who has legit questions and who is trying to figure out which way the bullets face.
Just my opinion.


Oh... And

Since this is in the beginner's Forum....


Large mesh/42" . Fine mesh/36" . Don't forget to pull.

No man, I thank you for not being an ass and giving me good responses, as most of you guys have done. Thanks for your patience.

I think you are right. Foren in the Inet are not insubstantial.

there already is a ton of advice on these forums regarding pc selection. besides, pc sizing tends to be trivial for newbie friendly objects.

plus, as you have stated, the slider comes with the canopy. there should be little reason to change it.

thus, the OP needs to develop that critical thinking that you mention above. by asking this question, it is obvious it is a skill he lacks.

you feel entitled to respect. yet, you have apparently done little to earn it.

by ignoring so much that already is out there, you have failed to give respect to those that have tried to assist you.

this thread is degrading into a variety of negative hijacks. thus, it will remain locked.

if people want to help the OP, PM him.
those that do not, remain silent.