Basejumper.com - archive

with the recent press coverage in London and Hawaii, I figured I'd create another totally unscientific poll to see what the current consensus is.

obviously, the Red Bull folks make a living generating good publicity. they will be in favor of publicity.

others will remember El Cap getting closed and think no publicity is better.

this has been discussed before, but attitudes change.

Keep the sport in the dark, which is where it belongs - Base 515

thst's what I think, from my huuuuuge experience ;)

Lets not forget that they also like to push the bad publicity angle as well.

I voted for the keep it in the dark as that is how I prefer to conduct myself. I also understand that there will always be a more public side of the sport as well.

There is no such thing as good publicity for base jumping, if there was, what would the end goal be? A Perrine Building?
Base is a dangerous, completely un-insurable activity that is completely incompatable with the risk adverse and litigious society we live in.
The more exposure it receives, the more people will become involved, less experienced/prepared individuals, more you tube videos and people sending footage to newspapers and TV stations, less ethics, more accidents.

I can see a time when all tall objects (any thing with a legally accountable owner) will have to be designed so as to mitigate the risk of basejumpers being able to access, it sounds like the sort of thing that would be included in the CDM regulations here in the UK.

However, I believe this is an inevitable and unstoppable part of the evolution of basejumping, human nature is the driving force and no code of ethics will be able stop it.
It may end up going full circle, in that access will become so difficult that only the most committed and prepared will continue to base jump, and perhaps that would not be so bad. This could also be true for wingsuit base if the valley was to become inaccessible for the 2 week holiday wingsuit poxy pilot that doesn't have the fitness, willingness or commitment to go on long hikes.

From what I can see, the more experienced jumpers are beginning to realise this and the cash in while you can attitude is starting to spread, this could be the tipping point. I remember feeling like I had let basejumping down when I got busted jumping a well known object late at night, now I don't think I would have been as bothered.

Good publicity depence which country you are in! Norway promote mountain flying official now, and see it as an outdoor activity and sport as climbing and randonee skiing.

Norway is becoming the destination for basejumpers, and base safari tourism as you would go to any location looking at birds.

What works in Norway, might not be the same for other places. By the time we will be as any other accepted sport. Some few places will be regulated but most will be as today!

Why shouldnt buildings owners have open roof and space for base jumpers in the future? It will loose some the nerve, but it is progression as time goes.

The great thing about Norway is that the hikes, weather and logistics (kjerag excluded) mean that is it usually only experienced or committed and well prepared basejumpers going to the north.

Vere good and valid point. Thank you. We have Kjerag to master the low experienced travellers, and then they meet contacts they can join in for next round further north. There is no places to go by yourselves up north if you have not arranged "guides" or at least they are experienced enough to manage all conditions theimselves.

Paul, just out of curiosity. As you say Norway actually promotes BASE as accepted mountain sport and welcomes jumpers there, do you have any regulations coming from the authorities regarding BASE? Besides from the ban in Troll. I´m meaning about certain rules on how/when to access certain mountains, no fly zones, landing areas etc? Because we´re participating our sport in the nature and more people (jumpers) mean more "human exposure" to the nature. People make trails, take a dump on the way up, sometimes even throw trash to the mountain (shame on you!) etc... Also often the good jumps are in the national parks or in wildlife preservation areas which the government tries to keep as much in natural form as possible and limit the "human exposure" to a minimum. I´m just interested how the Norwegian authorities see the exposure BASE is putting to the nature as due to the promoting of it, it is for sure increasing every year (my guess).

My thinking about this is that if I would have a hypothetical very cool jump close to my home which I know is in a "fragile" area, meaning for example a national park, I would have more or less 2 options :
Option A) Jump it quietly alone or with good friends every now and then and keep it under the lid
Option B) Make it public, promote it everywhere and accept the fact that we are bound to get into negotiations with the authorities and have to negotiate, make rules, regulations, educate people etc after the masses have raped the place for couple of summers

Makes you wonder what you would choose? :)

You have valid points. We have great experience with climbers coming to Norway for many decades. Climbing is self regulated activity, and I believe it will stay for base as well. So far there is no regulations In Norwas as I know off, and I do not think it will be either in the near future. However Kjerag as mentioned in the previous post, will function as a buffer zone for those who do not have experience or are teamed up with buddies who can be their guide or responsible. My point is, we are no different than any other extreme skiier, paraglider or kayaker who do their thing. Norway is by today not only Kjerag and the north anymore, so there is not going to be that crowded any near future. You have to remember Norway is not the only country with legal "easy" access, so I really do not think it will change that much except from Kjerag and Romsdalen with a little rise in visitors. The season is quite short for base tourism anyway.

Making a dump on a hike? I think I can caunt my few dumps in the mountains on one hand for at least 500 hikes. Taking a dump is bad planning or bad stomack. dropping garbage is bad karma, and will not give you happy lucky wings! Every base jumper should know that, and not try to challenge their destiny.

Sorry bad spelling and grammar

If a bear (or pope) can shit in the woods
um, why should humans not shit there??

Obviously be considerate of others and
make sure you go away from the trail.

As for littering, absolutely unacceptable!

Littering is not the biggest problem in Norway where it rains off the mointains in yellow streams, and for god sake, who can hold themselves for 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 hours, which is quite normal hike for those who is not experienced big wall hikers. Did you believe Smellveggen was tough? Think again.
Many do think they are fitt, but that is until thay arrive up north.

Slim, a base legend, 7 hours hike, a hot summerday up north
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqLDEyzrdfM

I believe I have misunderstood the word littering! But for the history, I keep it like it is. Stupid Norwegian trying to write english

Here is two articles in Norwegian with video links.

http://www.visitnorway.com/...more/Wingsuit-Video/

http://www.dagbladet.no/...neringsliv/21076475/

I believe same as Switzerland or the alps in gereral do have commercial trips for extreme skiing, there is no different for Mountain flying. Why should it be? as long it is not disturbing any locals, and the locals even welcome it? The important focus is, this is not BASE jumping, but Mountain flying, and that can separate the different terms and activity from each other, if it is necessary. I know jumpers have different feelings about how base evolves. I come from a very "low key" time in period, where it was enough attention when the inner circle knew what we where, and what we did. Of course everybody knew around us, but still it was a small group thing. It made us feel special, and I do not think it will ever be anything like that again, if you are not constantly jumping illegal stuff, and being chased by security and police. That is the true base jumping today. Legal buildings, I have to admit it was to easy, and I did not feel the same. Huge public audience gave a kind of a good attention feeling but still not the same as a good bandit jump that was successful.

It could be an interesting discussion if more jumpers involved themselves in how they see the future? Norway is open, there is no limitations, and the easiest location is regulated. What next? Is it necessary to preserve anything else than try to motivate jumpers to behave and know their own personal limits? As mentioned before, nothing comes for free, especially not in Norway where the weather, hikes, high cost country and you need to know somebody. Still there is hundreds of exits around there is very little known yet. Mexico, Brazil, China, and 10 more countries is soon very attractive base jumping locations, and maybe some regulated locations as well will show up in the near future at these destinations. It is up to you to decide how the futrere will be. If jumpers do not respect LB, it will be shut down, or at the best heavily regulated.

How many base jumpers do think there is in the world, who travel today, and how do you see that will rise in the future?

first, I obviously know less about Norge than you.

Kjerag is quite special. not only can it accommodate relatively inexperienced jumpers, but it has nature access limitations. most find it far easier to follow SBK's guidelines than it is to go it on their own.

compare this to the Swiss valley, which has virtually no restrictions. every year, the Swiss suffer poor jumping that creates fear of the authorities closing the valley.

both are European, and not American. you want to promote BASE in Norway, while the Swiss locals seem to prefer slowing people down.

Noway is not European.

blame it on American geography...
(please do not hand me a globe!)

BASE have been promoted in Norway since 1980. Troll wall it self have been standing there as the highest greatest monument to achive, for jumpers all over the world, and I believe it is still a very legitim goal, even it is not the first thing newcomers ask about anymore.

I have been to LB which is very different from our destinations in Norway. Short hikes, short walls, and many jumpers who arrives who should not have been there at all in first place. The valley is short, and thight with locals living close to the landing areas. Some few BASE jumpers is small kings, owning the place, making noise, high on life being on holiday, living the life to the fullest. I can understand it can be to much. The fatalities do also count as a huge problem.

In Norway it was only Romsdalen for 14 years, then Kjerag, Voss, Eikesdalen, Litledalen, and know, we have a long part of the coastline that is jumpable, so the impact on one area over a long time, will not harm the locals that bad as in LB.

Compare to Switzerlnd we have very few accidents in the mountains overall. Base accidents overall in numbers, is not that bad, but comparing to how many basejumpers and deaths pr jumps, it is huge potential for improving. It is up to you, nobody else to improve those numbers.

Statistic: In 2011, 151 people were killed in the Swiss Alps and the Jura during sporting activities.
http://www.guidesource.com/...accident-statistics/

Mount blanc statistics
http://climbing.about.com/...adliest-mountain.htm


Is it bad Norway promote base as a tourist destination? I beleive it could ease up restricted and illegal places. Maybe you will not be tased next time you get caught doing what you love?

I do not have all answers, but I know the future is coming, and it is not laying behind us.

The bottom line is: There is no such thing as bad publicity.

It's all good, most particularly because the more people see of it, the more familiar they get with it, the less outlandish it seems, and thus the more tolerant of it people become.

Carl Boenish said every new activity goes through three phases:

1. It can't be done.
2. It's too dangerous.
3. We knew it all the time.

We have seriously arrived at the point where, cops and other party poopers notwithstanding, the average person thinks BASE generally is cool, and they admire and respect the people who do it even if they would never do it themselves.

I spend far more time with whuffos than jumpers these days and to a person they are interested, inspired and appreciative of what jumpers do -- especially the wingsuit proxy flying because it does in fact evoke those age-old dreams of human flight and they love to watch people fly as much as we like doing it.

It is because of YouTube and Vimeo and Dantheman and Red Bull and Rocky Corliss and everyone else who contributes to the mass cyberfile of BASE jumping images that we are appreciated more than ostracized, and admired more than denounced.

Certainly, we owe it to ourselves, our friends and family, our sport, and the larger community to keep the carnage to a minimum, but in my experience since making my first BASE jump with Carl 33 years ago this August, the difference in the general understanding of and appreciation for what we do is literally orders of magnitude beyond what it was like when I started -- and that is largely due to the fact that BASE has now been around for 34 years and there is are terabytes of images around for everyone to see.

Or as Thomas Paine said a couple of hundred years before Carl:

"Time makes more converts than reason."

44

This is a Great Topic and I'm glad to see a few of the old hands got interested as well. I'll ramble some thoughts on several subjects.
Starting with OLD hands, Hey Robin, the whuffos you talk to know your an old BASE jumper so of course you hear positive. There are plenty of idiots out there that for some reason, feel threatend by what we do. Matte and Paul, (434), had great insights also. Paul, you were already exposed above, and I confrmed your name in the book). By the way, Great film in China with you Jeb and Douggs. Iiro is a good friend.
Robin, I do agree with you that GOOD publicity is good for the future of BASE. Like other posts, from Paul and Matte and Marteus, this sport has changed so has electronic media and digital cameras. Those changes and TV and You Tube coverage will never let go of extreme sports for now. It's a fad that the early beginning of BASE jumping actually started. BASE was the origin of the term "Extreme Sports". Look up Vision trading cards in the 80's had a new set of "Extreme Sports Cards" that had BASE, and a buch of others as the concept grew including the first Mountain Dew Commercials. Red Bull and Go Fast was part of normal expansion of the early more clandestined jumping. The trend won't stop unless like Matt proposed that it gets so illegal only the machos will come out. Paul is also right, since Norway requires some good hikes, it will keep the less dedicated at Kjerag and not further north. (Besides, Bodil has passed away so it's not as much fun in Andelsnes.) Paul, a great old timer Norge jumper that also recognizes Norway's natural barriers to yuppies or whuffo jumpers coming to Norway and expecting it will be like a little picnic. Norway has some tough hiking, even in Kjerag. Whuffos and lazy wannabes won't like the hikes. (Hello Mark A who whined about hiking the morning after Thor Alex bounced at Kjerag in 99. Not cool the morning after his death amongst his closest friends. Made me a little ashamed to be from the US).

UP North, ita gets tougher and you need a guide. They have a great situation and the Norwegians are some of the coolest and smartest folks I've ever met. In Norway, ones word is still his bond.

PS I also loved the first days of BASE when only a handfull did it. Like little groups of cat burglers in the night all over Houston, LA, Dallas etc. All we were stealing was altitude, and for heavans sake, we gave it right back as soon as we jumped. It was a special time in the early 80's and I guess it'll never be the same. However, even the newbies today still must go through the "terror" of the first few exits. Joy and I read all their BASE applicatation letters and stories and some still oozze adrenalin. I like some of the qualifying stories when their emotions are at their highest. It reminds me of the feelings I used to get on a B or big cliff at night. It's just a human thing. They just have the advantage that there is now very well tested great BASE equipment and mentors.

About Good v BAD publicity, day burning sites which screws other BASE jumpers is bad for BASE. Also, You tube stuff that cleary gets law or stupid mistakes on film is also BAD for the sport. Normally, all good jumps, especially legal jumps, are good for the sport for the same reasons Robin listed. Carl knew the whole world was jumpable and with todays equipment, we can do demos off nearly anything. HOWEVER, if we get too many legal jumps and the sport gets too commonplace, the huge problem of inexperienced newbies getting into BASE without much or any skydiving will always be a problem. Good thing about BASE, even with good equipment, it has sort of it's own limiting factor, called Darwin.

TOO BAD, BASE can't return to a more quite underground activity, It WAS Much More Fun. Phil Smith was my best BASE buddy 82-87. Everytime we jumped, we shook hands on the landing for living, then once on a public highway, we shook again for the escape. I can't deny it, escape does add a thrill. 'Today, I like the ease of legal, but I've had both now and I'm not as young as most of you guys.
SO good publicity good, but don't screw your mates.
BAD publicity, arrests, injuries, property damage, litter, dayblazing a sensitive object, all bad.

Cliffleaper
38

Rick Harrison
38

I voted “None of the above” because I believe there is good publicity and bad publicity…

Great thread by the way! A lot of interesting perspectives being shared…

Great input and thank you for the kind words.

What I see and experience, is that there is more adventure outdoor types who gets in to the sport. Also other multisport atlhets we se as well, and I admit I like what some of them is bringing in to the sport.

I believe we can learn a lot from Snowboarding and Skydiving how they evolved as an activity and sport, since they are also quite new in historic perspective and timeframe.

The most important is how media have changed towards BASE jumping/Mountain flying in Norway. We do see a lot more respect when there is a rescue operation, or en gereral.

That's Awesome!