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As a first rig is it a bad idea? are they that much harder to pack?

thanks!

R.

If you are a good packer they really don't make much difference.
If you are sloppy and inexperienced, they will complicate it a bit, but not too terrible.

you can always add them to your container later.

Hi!

I was thinking the same thing about 4 months ago and I choosed bottomless corners to my rig...

In my opinion it is not harder to pack. Only you have to remember close that corners and that's it :)

If you planning to do terminal jumps some day with tracking suit...bottomless corners might be good idea?

FM

So i know this is the beginners forum,

Are you talking about dynamic corners,

If so then as said above, If you can pack then it wont be an issue,

Really as your closing your rig you grab one corner and feed it inside making sure it is facing inwards the right way and you dont excessively move your pack job too much... then do the same with other side..

I guess if your not use to them it may be tricky but if you are beginning then you would be practising your packing until you know it off by heart and then it wont be an issue will it

Yeah for terminal and wingsuit bottomless corners are the shit If packing is hard or difficult - pack more! You'll get the hang of it, no worries

will you start off jumping a bunch of terminal objects?

if not, it appears like you want a "fashion statement" more than a feature.

please focus on the path in front of you, not where you hope to be. people skipping ahead like that frequently get into a rush, and make mistakes.

personally, I think the most dangerous aspect of BASE is a lack of Emotional Control. people rush to jump beyond their skill set, get it on video, and show it to the world! the resulting carnage is rarely cool.

I just ordered a new rig with dynamic corners. It's not my first rig but I'm still new. I have no plans whatsoever to wingsuit anything. What I do plan is having this rig for a very long time and who knows what I'll be doing 2 years from now. If you were buying a new car, would you prefer it with or without cup holders...

I don't consider it a fashion statement. It's your rig. Customize it however you want.

They obviously started making dynamic corners for a reason. And it makes sense from a technical standpoint. But I'm curious, is there any footage or does anybody have any stories where they are certain that they had opening problems or poor heading performance due to the pack job bumping or having to climb the BOC panel on deployment during a tracking or WS jump?

I think some fashion statement gear purchases are emerging, for sure. Bottomless corners are probably not the worst of these, as they probably help (marginally) during severe head-low openings. But they are by-and-large unnecessary for people who aren't moving all that fast horizontally during opening, and they will (marginally) complicate the packing process for the newest of jumpers. Where I do see the fashion statement problem emerging with more danger is with new jumpers (especially in the U.S.) buying light, super-light, and through-loop technology for a first rig.

A first rig should be the SUV. It should be simple, rugged, and reliable without question. If you can afford to travel to Europe frequently for some serious horizontal fun, then you can afford some Euro-specific gear.

I have landed in muddy fields, in dusty desert washes, and amongst thorn bushes. Last Bridge Day, during the awesome turbulence, I put her down in knee-deep water. During a recent urban adventure, I twice stepped on my canopy while running toward the getaway car. All of this is not the best way to treat lightweight or super-lightweight canopies. And pounding out the slider-down jumps on these less-beefy canopies isn't the best approach either, I reckon.

Add to that, the cost/complexity of some of the new containers and required canopies may not be the best thing for new jumpers.

Some of this I think is harmless. Some of it I think is ego over reason...

If you value being alive, then match your gear to what you're doing right now.

Mi dos centavos.

~ Chris

I was wondering if anybody was gonna mention head low deployments. They aren't just for wingsuit pilots. Not sure how much they help but they sure won't hurt to have them if you go head low on deployment. I don't think they are a fashion statement and is it really that much harder to pack? Perhaps a little awkward at first but you should get used to that pretty quick. Just my 2 1/2 cents...

well said.

when people say they hope to need a feature in a few years they ignore:

- the temptation in the closet
- gear advances, rendering their purchase outdated
- accidents and incidents might render their shiny rig unairworthy before they can do that wingsuiting
- many end up with different rigs for different jumps
- newbies may get the sizing wrong, they may gain weight over the next 2 years, their jumping style develops, they find jumping is not for them, etc. and they end up rethinking their first rig
- gear manufacturers have been known to add features based on customer demand, and NOT because they heartily endorse each new feature

anyone thinking they can predict their needs 2 years out, with almost no experience, risks appearing frightenly arrogant.

the wealthy can afford vanity objects. no issue. I just hope no one buying all the frills lacks insurance!

I don't hope to need any feature in the future or think I can predict anything. Totally understand what you're saying with regard to a "jumping ahead" mentality. But (for me) I don't consider a feature like dynamic corners as jumping ahead.. maybe because I don't care about wingsuiting or jumping terminal walls. Or maybe because I'm a stupid newbie.

Should a new skydiver not buy a freefly friendly rig because their next XX# of jumps will most likely be belly? Why disregard a feature that could possibly help you should you find yourself head low.. but will serve no other purpose on an otherwise uneventful jump? I hope you don't think I'm asking to be arrogant. I'm asking because I'm new and curious.

you ask "why not?"
I ask "why?"

they developed dynamic corners because of the airflow peculiar to wingsuiting.

while I don't keep track of statistics and incidents as well as some, I still have never heard of any situation where "normal" corners would have been beneficial any other time.

if someone is head low at pull time, they have screwed up. plus, other things will likely be happening. they could be on their side, tumbling, etc. it is incredibly unlikely that they will be stable, head low, at pull time.

without stability, the dynamic corners lose most of their advantage.

some old timers prefer velcro rigs on tightish ladders. they want to be able to hear the pack job accidentally opening. it HAS happened. (I've had my pins pop while still on an object.) if/when that happens to you, do you want dynamic corners that will let your parachute just drop out? unlikely, sure. I still think it is more likely than being stable, but head low at pull time...

welcome to BASE. you get to make your own call. (you also should have zero problem finding someone who disagrees with me...)

Emememmy, it's not arrogant at all. And this dialogue is healthy for newer members of the sport (me being one of them). We learn more when we make ourselves open and vulnerable to review/criticism. So kudos for chiming in.

Overall I think the cost/benefit/risk analysis on bottomless corners does not arrive unequivocally at any conclusion; it's personal. But one should make an informed decision.

The larger theme is that people are beginning to buy gear with a fashion focus. At best they're wasting money. At worst they're going to overjump a lightweight line set and get their awesome Euro-rig all bloodied up at the bottom of some 325-foot freestander in rural middle America.

Like Pooh said, "Think, think, think..." I hope everyone will, because the risk management in this sport begins early...and choosing gear is in the early stages of that risk management.

~ Chris

Edited to add: I own two rigs. I ordered them both new. Neither of them has bottomless corners. I don't regret this at all.

It is the beginners forum, apex base still calls it bottomless corners. Good luck on getting your new gear!

I think you need to lay off man, your taking this a little too seriously.

Open corners are not a big deal. It's not that hard to pack with them. They don't pose any danger by adding complication. And they don't effect normal deployment...

+1


He is gonna get em anyway hahahah

Just make sure you get 3 go pros.

one go pro 3d (because you never know)
One go pro 2
and the normal go pro

and a huge attachment for the front of helmet hanging 8 feet in front hahah

Its all fun..

Get the dynamic corners (or as apex say bottomless corners)

Listen to your mentor and dont fuck up!!!!

So what has he lost?


Fuck me there's some drama going on here! The guy's asking about dynamic corners, not whether it's cool to do a wingsuit rodeo of an underhung 300ft cliff for his first base.


Dude, it's fifty or sixty bucks. If he can't afford that, how would he afford flipping it for a new rig in 12 months time?

Perspective.

thanks for proving my point!


the OP asked if these corners were a bad idea. sorry, if I pointed out negatives. call me a killjoy!

it will let the OP make a more informed decision.

choosing standard corners might open up other possibilities, such as used, immediately available equipment. he has options.

While implying that he was an overly fashion conscious, self control lacking, arrogant rich kid.

Like the third guy in a year that asks something more in depth than 'hey lol just saw jeb on utube how can I do that rad base shit without learning pussy skydiving first haha noob lol j/k' and you're jumping over him about dynamic corners. Jeez.


Yeah, 'cos everyone knows you can never find dynamic cornered rigs second hand...

thank you all for posting! It has been very interesting (and entertaining) to read.

I was asking because I have an eye on a second hand rig that is exactly what I'm looking for but has dynamic corners. So I'm not an overly fashion conscious, self control lacking, arrogant rich kid.

I also plan on jumping terminal objects so if I decide to buy new I think I'll give it a try.Anyways used gear seem to keep its value?!

thanks again,

R.

yeah, providing cons.
providing a conservative view.
attempting to keep people safe.
(with stories to illuminate the comments.)

yeah, how stupid of me!

as I said previously, just call me a buzzkill.

More like inane ranting. And baseless assumptions about prospective jumpers. Your first response to the OP was just jumping the gun, then you started it calling it a fashion statement? Give it a rest...

I have a relatively low number of terminal jumps but these questions represent my thinking:

Buying new or used?
Going terminal? How often?
Willing to spend $55 for something that probably won't ever help you out, but could?
Willing to accept a minimal packing inconvenience?

My current rig doesn't have dynamic corners and I am perfectly fine with that, in fact I prefer it. My next one will have dynamic corners because I will be doing more tracking jumps and I feel the pros outweigh the cons.

If it helps ... I was in the same position - a secondhand rig came up, exactly what I was looking for for my first rig but with dynamic corners so I got a couple of knowledgeable opinions, then i bought it. It did take me a while to get the hang of tucking the corners in while packing but no big deal and no other issues at all as far as I can see, but then I'm only a beginner myself !!!

PEOPLE !!!!
This is a call for reason !

Open/Bottomless corners will take under an hour to remove (pick out the stitching) and to zigzag the sidewall/bottom wall edges together. Any decent rigger should be able to do it. And guess what - non certified gear=you can do it yourself if you feel like you can handle it and are not afraid to cause your own demise (please don't forget to remove teh canopy before doing the work).

If you really want to worry about something, then spend more time making sure your tailpocket and toggle velcro is replaced on regular basis. Some of the shit I get here is just waaaaay past the need for replacement.

Same with me when I started. But then, since I was packing and repacking over and over anyway to get the hang of everything else, it really didn't make any difference.

From my personal experience dynamic corners don't add ANY complexity to packing. You just have to push them inside before you close the loop, that's it. You'd have to be seriously retarded if that's complicated for you.

On the other hand I don't see any cons of having them. They help when tracking or in case of head down opening. The only thing that comes to my mind is that if you pull your pin accidently your canopy is more likely to fall out.

And from what i've heard the rig has to be made with dynamics corners so they work well, otherwise it may not open so nicely (but I'm not a rigger so I don't know shit in that matter).