Basejumper.com - archive

Hi, first post here, but have been lurking for a while. Great resource here! Not ready to start BASE yet, keen but patient, possibly early next year. Looking into buying my first skydiving rig, and thought i'd plan ahead a bit.

Really like the idea of getting some good experience on a canopy before taking it to a FJC. There is some good info on this topic here on basejumper.com (eg, http://www.basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2950476), but still unsure about size. Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere and i missed it.

Wing loading for a BASE canopy has been suggested to be in the range 0.65 to 0.75 (http://www.basejumper.com/Articles/Gear/BASE_Canopies_681.html). For me that would be a 240 to 280. Looking at the FLiK UltraLite, it is meant to pack 28% smaller (http://apexbase.com/product.php?product_id=127), so the pack size would then be roughly equivalent to a 170 to 200. That would be fine for a skydiving canopy for me right now, but what size canopy would this container be too large for? Would like to keep the container for a few years at least (or is that not really likely?). I know people tend to buy a container that only just barely fits their canopy to allow them to downsize more.

The BaseR is another option, but it seems like an expensive choice to have a skydiving rig, a BASE rig, and an extra BaseR harness/container and reserve. Even if i saved the money and got an F-111 rather than UltraLite canopy it doesn't really add up, unless trying get a skydiving container that can fit a BASE canopy is going to compromise the skydiving too much.

Is there anything else in choosing a skydiving container i should take into account?

Thanks.

You probably will not be able to use your regular skydiving rig for jumping your BASE canopy. If you can rent a student rig from the DZ for a day or a weekend, that might be your best choice.

Walt

eh i dunno i'd be curious. i can get a 150 9 cell zp canopy into a mirage MT (designed for 120 9 cell zp canopy max). Given that base canopies are f111 and 7 cell (both of which makes them pack smaller) and the possibility for freepacking the base canopy into the main tray (thus deducting the size of the deployment bag), I think you could fit a base canopy into a lot of skydiving containers, especially one designed for a low jump number student (ie 170-210 range).

I bet if you could fit a 190 in a container you could fit a 240 base canopy into the container if you freepacked it. Then you might not want to take it to terminal so maybe you should also save up for a zp skydiving canopy to switch out when you dont want to practice your base canopy control skills.

just my thoughts I have been planning on doing exactly what you are thinking to do when I get closer to wanting to jump off the bridge in twin falls.

FWIW, my container is made for 170 (although I pack Spectre 190 in it). Well, I freepacked Trango 285 (equivalent of 300) in it with no problem at all. It's a tight fit, but it fits and works well (tracking, wingsuit - no need to babysit it at subterminal).

This may be a beginners forum, but I doubt the purpose is for beginners to give advice to beginners :(

Topic has been discussed multiple times, and some field data was given :
http://www.basejumper.com/...rum.cgi?post=2917895
http://www.basejumper.com/...rum.cgi?post=2526710

and lastly, although the F111 does make the canopy pack smaller, the beefy reinforcements along with the thick dacron lines do add to the pack volume.

But you have a tailpocket and thicker lines instead, so it all ads up to +-0.

My normal FLiK 266 packs slightly larger than a Lightning 160, I would guess it is equivalent to a ~190 normal 9 cell

EDIT: Oops, I'm a slow typer I guess

I have easily packed a Feather 280 into a Vector sized for a 170. Have to lengthen the closing loop to pack it in the D-bag, but free packed it fits with standard length closing loop. It's not pretty, but it works.

but why bother searching?
isn't it easier just ignoring all the previous posts, and post the question anew? isn't it easier to get others to do the work for you?

why show any respect by actually seeing if the information is already out there?

Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated. That's good to hear that there's unlikely to be any issues fitting a BASE canopy, but if there is, Walt's suggestion of just renting a student rig and swapping it in there sounds good.

Scubadivemaster also made a really good point in one of those threads, once i've managed to packed it in there, make sure the pressure on the pin isn't too much for the pc to pull it!

I'd rather have a main container not opening in the skydiving environment than an open container inside the air plane or my container opening before bridle stretch.

I'd rather not have any of those scenarios happening, but I don't think you know just how tight a loop can be. All depending on the PC of course. YMMV.

Yeh, your right, the reverse situation is pretty fucked up too, and being able to actually close the container without adjusting the closing loop if it is that tight seems a bit unlikely. One of my first pack jobs, accidentally made the roll a fair bit thinner than the width of the d bag, to the point where it ended up putting lot of pressure on the pin. Was a pita to even pull the closing loop through enough to get the pin in. Despite the crappy pack job and resulting pressure on the pin, the opening was still fine. I'm still a noob, that should have been kinda obvious.

Here's a tip from the old days. When checking pin tension, check it when you have your rig on and your leg and chest straps properly tightened. You will find that there is a lot of difference between pin tension with the rig off and the rig on.

Walt

I havent heard of this ever happening.
I challenge anyone to create it.
take care,
space

clicky #23

It said speculation. #23.
Also IIRC, it was a ParaInnovators PC that didnt have a PDA.
The challenge still stands (on a table top simu).

There were some issues in skydiving equipment with aluminum curved pins that were losing the curve.
take care,
space

plus the OP wants to skydive with it.

- no one ever recommends a loose closing pin on a dz.
- the snatch force of the pc will be greater.
- there will be a reserve available.
- odds are, more experienced jumpers at the dz will be watching and offering advice.

Imagine this coming up after all this time.

The thread he mentions was one where I watched my wife do a hop and pop on a skydiving rig built for a 190 with a 240 base canopy wedged in. Even with the closing loop lengthened, she towed the fully inflated skydiving pilot chute well into terminal and for long enough that I thought she was going to burn in if she didn't get her reserve out. She dropped into a bit of a sit and it opened. Hard.

But, to your point, it DID eventually open. Still if it had been a hop and pop from 2 grand, it would have been a different story, so I think that it is worth considering PC selection and closing pin tension carefully when marrying equipment not designed to be used together.

1. You're getting ahead of yourself. Start skydiving with a used rig including a main loaded to a pound per square foot and container which fits it well so you can jump two smaller sizes when appropriate. Enjoy doing that and see where you end up.

Note the key word "used." With a fair price tag you won't loose more than $1/jump each on main and container when you sell it. With a good price you'll break even or make money on the deal.

If you're in the military and can find a 50% off discount for service members it might make sense to buy new. Otherwise you'll come out ahead buying used.

2. Different situations call for different gear so you can get at least two skydiving rigs. This needn't be expensive - I paid $700 for a used Javelin J7 including a Raven III reserve for making classic accuracy jumps out of airplanes with BASE parachutes.

Borrowing such a rig is also an option. Classic accuracy and demo jumpers often have big rigs for big parachutes that sink nicely into tight areas.


Assuming you have at least an average case of testosterone poisoning you'll also want to jump into more interesting landing areas (which are small and where landing out means tree, cliff face, or white water river). Classic accuracy approaches not finishing with a drop onto a tuffet are the most reliable way to get into such areas and you'll want to practice in a relaxed environment with a soft spot to crash land into (the pea gravel) if you don't get it quite right.

Getting a bit ahead of myself yes, but PPPPPPP (prior preparation and planning prevents piss poor performance). While i should reach the bare minimum number of jumps for a fjc later this year, think i'll want to leave it longer than that. Will see when i get to that point.

Haha, like the way you put the testosterone poisoning. Landing accuracy is definitely the thing i need to work on most. Then maybe forum search skills, and body position when throwing. Have a tendency to dip my right shoulder, and that's led to about 1/4-1/3 openings 45 degrees off to the right, but at least that's been good practice for getting on the risers quickly to fix it.

enjoy skydiving.

ignore BASE, for now.

fixating on what might happen in the future will rob you of the present. this robs many of the moment and they progress slower. your skydiving instructors and mentors might think that you dismiss their advice as you blindly pursue YOUR agenda.

focus on the next step, not next years!

i dunno about that, i showed up at the dropzone never having jumped (in 2001) and proudly proclaimed I was here to learn how to fly a parachute so that I could start base jumping. Well the dzo happened to be a base jumper and he took fondly to me and personally taught me to skydive and after about a hundred jumps he took me off a 300' freestander. So it worked for me (although I wasn't 'fixated' - your words - I was just stoked!).

well, it may have worked for you, but not every dz is BASE friendly. plus, I can give you plenty of stories of students not focusing on the lesson at hand. it caused them to repeat levels and struggle to advance.

how many students have you taught?

yeah I did realize that base was not entirely accepted before I had exposure to the skydiving culture. Each dropzone is different. The north carolina dropzones I've been to have all been fairly friendly to base (although I can think of one exception).

I do not think any dropzone wouldn't allow a skydiver to jump a base canopy given that it was rigged correctly. I hope not at least that would be an awkward situation!

the biggest question is when?

both the dz/dzo/instructor/s&ta/coach and the jumper must agree.

some who post here might be willing to buy a large rig, toss in a BASE canopy, and start AFF - not good.

I have seen jumpers with a C license have trouble landing their parachute. experimenting by them might be frowned on by management.

I feel it is best to start with humility. if you succeed, then grow more aggressive. (starting too aggressively generally burns bridges.)

step one, ensure mastery of basic skills.

as always, different people will have different experiences.

I've watched jumpers with xx,xxx skydives not making a 50' long landing area because full-flight skydiving approaches aren't always the best idea.


That sums it up.

A big problem here is that people lack the experience to differentiate between things people don't do because they're scary but given enough cojones and training you'll probably get away with and things that technically aren't the best idea but have better alternatives.