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Are toggles between 2 systems interchangeable, I searched in a few manuals for rigs and found on adrenalin base "
The toggles & risers work together as one system, therefore never replace one of the parts with non original manufacturing equipment". Although apex say "This toggle fits most BASE style risers and of course they are compatible with Apex BASE risers" about their big grab toggles. Is there a problem with using another manufactures toggles other than simply fitting on the Velcro ect?

I would recommend being a bit more proactive and leaving the kindergarden antics of asking your teachers if its to go to the bathroom. behind. In other words use your brain for a change.

The toggle system is so simple even a 5 year old can figure it out. You have the toggle with underside velcro (varying length, but pretty much standartised throught the industry), your toggle has a nose stub of the same somewhat varying but pretty much standartized length. The same toggle may either have a grommet for affixing it to the steering line, or it may have a more complex cutaway system.

The riser will have a piece of hook velcro for mating with the toggles pile velcro, it will have a stow system for the toggle stub - that will be made either of a piece of elastic sewn in a way where its open ended and the toggle passes through or of a piece of type3 tape folded to make a pocket with a finite end. The riser will also have an excess line stowage system which most likely will be either a sidestow style using two pieces of velcro, or a back-of-riser style using a piece of elastic.

In short, if your toggle velcro mates to the riser veclcro and the toggle stub fits in the stow pocket, i would consider the two compatible.

Seriously, not that hard....

Not that hard, true. But I emailed the same question to one of the manufacturers this week simply to make sure I didn't waste $40 and shipping only to find out the velcro wasn't the same length or the stub too wide.

This decision of compatibility is easy to make when you have all the parts in your hands, and you can make a reasoned evaluation. But if my risers are in my hands and the toggles-in-question are in a warehouse (figurative warehouse) somewhere, this becomes a more legitimate question, no?

~ Chris

I assumed it would be fine, providing they fit, but since one manufacture specifically stated to never replace one
of the parts with non original manufacturing equipment, I thought there might be an underlying reason/something I hadn't thought of other than" velcro fits, stub fits".

Iv'e used two different toggles on the same rig once, two different manufactures, two different sizes, two different colors, two different styles(1-big grab and 1-WTF) because I wanted to see which one felt better with gloves on. If it fits, it works!

I would say , yes standard toggles are, but not for WLO toggles.

I and many others have had toggle hangups with the WLO toggles fitted to the Asylum risers when jumping slider down.

Which style WLO toggles? What is different about asylum risers than other risers that causes hangups slider down? Trying to picture this. I sometimes throw my badseed WTF toggles (the ones with the yellow teflon cable cutaway) on my PPro and have not had any issues, yet.

WLO's from Apex on Asylum risers ?

what caused the hangup ?

I ain't buying this to be a problem caused by interchangeability :(

in the lawsuit happy US, what manufacturer will say any toggle will work with their risers? think of the liability exposure. some freak in their garage will create some home made toggles, not resembling anything out there, and suddenly the rig maker is at fault!

they will stand by their equipment, since it has been tested together. swap out equipment, and YOU become the test jumper. (which really applies to a lot of BASE jumping.)


grammar edit

I don't know how many slider down jumps I have on WLO toggles and Asylum risers but it's several hundred. I don't bother changing out the toggles for slider up, or down.

If you say it's happened, I believe you but I've never had issues. I am rather careful how I mate the velcro and make sure the toggle sits correctly and not to far into the locking loop but I've always made sure the velcro is mated perfectly.

How did it hang up? There has to be a reason. Stow one like you normally would Pull the line up toward the canopy to set the brake setting. What can hang up?

It was the locking loop that hung up on the area where the pin is exposed, I know it's my own error, but I had one happen after making sure the locking loop is not close to the pin, it may have shifted during packing or due to carelessness, but still worried me a bit. Also the Velcro doesn't match up as nicely if I lower it, a lot of the toggle sits below the Velcro.



The nylon cable WLO's won't have the same issues because they are a different design.

Not a serious issue, but just take not if you are using the Apex WLO and Asylum Riser combo.

Off topic rant...this is in beginner forum...and the question is legitimate, even if you know the answer. This type of response discourages people. End rant.

you know, you are right, I was probably off my PMS meds.

my apologies for being a dick. But at least I did provide a somewhat useful advice afterwards :)

discourages people?
from jumping?
or from posting?

it is obvious different people define "Beginner" differently. more and more often, people are posting questions that should go to dz.com, not bj.com. are these posters prepared enough to be a "Beginner," or are they really "wannabees?"

vid666's presentation was harsh. but he essentially questioned if the OP was ready to begin BASE with his lack of gear knowledge.

should EVERY poster be taken seriously? if not, when can they be taken seriously? I bet there is not a consistent answer to that!

honestly, what is YOUR experience?
have you changed the toggles on your skydiving rig yet?
have you considered buying some big grab (or other toggles) and installed them on your skydiving rig?

do you trust random people on the internet MORE than your personal experience?

how have you tried to help yourself?

all bow to your wisdom

what wisdom?
there ain't none there!

a casual review of the List indicates most recent fatalities result from flawed judgement. no one builds judgement by asking questions. they build judgement via experience. I would like to see the OP build his judgement. this seems like a great topic to start!

remember, BASE has no USPA generating rules to be memorized. it requires each participate to think for themselves.

Yeah. Hook it up and go for it. Don't bother asking any questions.

I think you're kind of arguing a moot point. Yeah, warped is kind of a dick, but rightfully so in my opinion.
Is this really the webpage to learn about universal toggle design? Is it not safe to assume that someone who has questions about extremely basic rigging should be directed back toward building more experience around sky gear? In all honesty, I think the beginner forum is a stupid idea on this site. I think there should just be general, technical, and a community page (plus all the site maintenance BS). And if someone comes off as being cool, or has huge breasts, they get their questions answered. And if they ask questions that are answered in your first 25 skyjumps,you get flamed and beat-up on until you start looking for rafters to attach a belt to.
It's the freakin internet. Since when did it become such serious business?

Good question. You can ignore the shit talkers, and good for you for checking manuals for answers first.

Answer: Usually yes, sometimes no.

I prefer to use Fly Your Body's system and those toggles are not interchangeable with other risers/rigs.

However, in most cases toggles are interchangeable. You mentioned Adrenalin Base and Apex. Those should interchange just fine. Both those toggles are standard sized and use the basic velcro/loop/ring setup. Apex, Asylum, Morpheus and Adrenalin all produce standard toggles that will interchange. As for fancy toggles that provide line over release feature, I can't speak to their interchangeability because I do not use them.

now you are catching on.
that's what the reserve is for!



edited to add:
jumpers SHOULD ask questions, but first, of themselves. JT knows a ton, and likes to help, but how does a newbie know that? how do they determine solid advice from crap? testing while skydiving provides clear lessons, unfiltered by a round of "telephone." (ya know, that game where a message keeps getting distorted every time it gets passed along...)