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I dont have much experience flying BASE parachutes (only two VERY short rides from 300' and 450' hehe). I am contemplating making some base jumps again someday. Are BASE canopies much like accuracy canopies that they can be safely 'sunk in' without depressurizing (ie kept in deep brakes for long period of time without the violent 'stall' effects).

I do intend to experiment quite a bit with the stall point of any canopy I am flying and definitely the base canopy I eventually fly...but I just want to hear it from any of you about whether or not practicing accuracy (a few jumps per week) on a base canopy would be a worthwhile activity to *help* prepare for base jumping again.

I had a three-part plan for getting back into jumping:
1) practice accuracy with a base canopy
2) get my rigger certification and get lots of experience packing reserves (which is something I want to do apart from BASE anyway)
3) take a fjc and then find a mentor at home that I trust and get along with

One other question: if I get an old BASE canopy, such as a dagger or mojo or something (I have seen these canopies for sale for not that much money) and practice on these, then eventually end up buying a new canopy to jump with would my accuracy practice on the old canopy help translate quickly to the new canopy (with putting some jumps out of a plane on the new base canopy before base jumping it).

Yes

Good Plan

Good Luck

Hopppy New Year

Yes. You're probably better off to get a Mojo than a Dagger for that, as it will maintain pressurization better in deep brake approaches.

Minus the tuffet, don't you practice accuracy on every jump? I mean, I know some just make aimless turns until they land, but whether you are swooping a Xaos or sinking a sharpshooter you should still be trying to land where you want to land.

For BASE accuracy practice, it's not a bad idea to try for a fairly random approach and then do the entire set up and accuracy from quite low (by skydiving standards).

You'd need the DZO to be on-board with the plan, but starting your set up at 500 feet and then shooting your accuracy crosswind (both of which will be really bad for the pattern if you are doing it when other jumpers are landing) would be much better practice than simply landing on a spot on every jump.

It would probably be impossible to do that sort of practice on every load at the DZ, though. You'd either want to dump really high (so everyone else had landed by the time you were setting up) or get a low pass just for yourself to stay out of traffic.

Or just land away from the herd since almost every DZ I know of has a student area apart from their main LZ.

And since my comment is being disputed I might as well add my $0.02 to the OP. In my opinion, wasting your money on a crappy BASE canopy for skyjumping makes smelling farts on a plane less worth it. If you're going to get a BASE canopy, get what you are wanting to jump, and jump the shit out of it on objects that have good height and easy LZs. That way you can dial it in. Hell, even take it out of a plane a few times. But skyjumping a BASE canopy is (in my opinion) the lamest 2500 ft canopy ride you will ever take.

And Tom, if he's jumping a BASE canopy out of an airplane I doubt he has to worry about not being the last one down.

I wasn't trying to start an argument. Just trying to point out ways he could make his airplane practice more worthwhile.


He lists his location as North Carolina. There are a lot of old school accuracy jumpers in that area, because of the military presence (and a resulting emphasis on classic accuracy). It's possible he's on a load with a bunch of accuracy guys and his BASE (or BASE-like) canopy won't be flying very far out of their pattern.

I agree with you! I just think skydiving a BASE canopy is painfully boring. I do think its a good way to get used to a f111 7 cell, but in that case just buy what you actually want since they all fly a little different anyway. I don't know, I'm cheap, broke, and hard-headed.

My opinion... use a canopy you want to skydive with and jump a lot. Sink it in even on your smaller canopy. You can let it fly high enough to get a good landing out of it.

When you get time or the 7 cell boring canopy, do some jumps on it to figure out the stall point and sink it in true accuracy style. Do not use a real accuracy canopy. They do not fly like a BASE canopy.

while there is nothing inherently wrong with your plan, I always wonder why?

eventually, skydiving a BASE canopy can feel like a penalty.

why not just skydive with your normal rig and do canopy drills with it? when you get good, you will have developed transferable skills!

think in terms of cars...
can you transition seamlessly between a compact car and a giant SUV? wet road? snowy road? do you need to buy a different vehicle to feel confident?

I've watched professional skydivers with over 10,000 jumps from planes run out of landing area and end up with their parachutes in trees because the skills don't transfer that well. With over a thousand jumps and consistently landing a 105 where ever I wanted I did the same thing. Having witnessed plenty of other guys at varying experience do the same thing I'm forced to conclude that flying BASE approaches like in a skydiving environment fails too often.


Classic accuracy with a BASE canopy is like playing 8 ball. It's rewarding in its own way but not exciting.


Car and motorcycle is a better analogy. Using a motorcycle like a car works a lot of the time. There are situations where there's no equivalent and driving experience doesn't help, like when you put 600+ pounds of bike and luggage on its center stand at the gas station. There are situations where things work differently - too much braking turning in a car usually means under steer and going straight while a handful of front brake on a bike leads to a low-side crash.

The equipment and situations are very different.

Modern skydiving canopies flatten out with a bit of brakes and keep about the same glide ratio until just short of their stall point. BASE and accuracy canopies get steeper from somewhat flatter than 2:1 to less than 1:1 at approach speeds which produce a pleasant flare and can be controlled in a straight-down sink.

You really want to learn to exploit that instinctively before you need to.

Skydiving is done at dropzones in wide open areas with relatively predictable winds (you can get some change dropping into a slight depression). Fun BASE jumps can happen in interesting places like the confluence of three canyons with radically varying winds along the way.

The skydiving approach of flying a pattern based on known objects, some planned adjustments, and tweaks rounding off corners and flattening or steepening things doesn't translate well to the BASE environment.

Missing the best few thousand square feet of your skydiving landing area might mean loosing the swoop-and-chug competition but is otherwise irrelevant. Missing that on a BASE jump might mean your best choice is a 10x10x10' boulder with a flat top where you need to run up stream and haul in the canopy before your pilot chute lands in the river (while exciting that's not the sort of excitement you want to seek out), tree landing, or getting up and personal with a cliff wall.

It's much more important to get things right in interesting BASE landing areas that don't even meet the USPA's 5000 square foot minimum recomendation for pro-rating holders doing demos.

Becoming proficient at braked approaches under a BASE canopy will make your life a lot more pleasant where the situation makes planning for it a good idea or things get screwy (the idiot you jump with has a wall strike, you're paying more attention to him in the landing area than getting to the ground on your own, and need to sink before running out of space).

thanks for the post drew! that puts it a good way that justifies my idea.

i think I will take something from a previous poster also and save up money for a new base canopy that I will eventually base jump such as a flik or a blackjack (those two come to mind as appealing looking with the newer technology of vents).

If I skydive a base canopy 30-40 or 50 or so times will it really wear it down any appreciable amount??? How many jumps out of a plane would I have to put on a base canopy before it would start getting iffy whether I was wearing it down too much to be useful to have a good long life in the base environment (assuming decent clean landings from the plane)?

I think you miss several points.

did those problematic canopy pilots practice any canopy drills? non-standard approaches? off-field landings? accurately fly while surrounded by dozens of other canopies? milk a canopy to recover from a bad spot? jump a variety of parachutes (borrowed, demo'd, etc.)

if they primarily do hop-n-pops to practice radical swoops into an empty traffic pattern, they are NOT really developing transferable skills and everything you say is correct.

modern skydiving parachutes are not nearly as forgiving as a BASE canopy. thus using the most forgiving parachute in the most forgiving environment may NOT lead to the best skill development. flying a skydiving parachute in a less-than-forgiving manner can provide a significant education.

it can also be done with a single rig that can be used on ANY skydive. specialized gear can limit the kinds of jumps in which one participates. if a jumper starts missing out on "cool" loads, they will grow discouraged.

"professional skydivers" frequently fail to do much more than get down as fast as possible. it is good for business, but not skill development.

If you really put 50 practices skydives on a base canopy I will be really amazed. You should be able to figure it out in like 1-2.

Total life of a canopy depends on a ton of factors, but a number that is thrown around a lot is 500 jumps.

ps,

a lot of your correct criticisms revolves around the issues of skill development in a dz environment. those conditions will exist no matter what one chooses to fly. the only way to learn is to get out of the comfort zone of those dz routines. the parachute is a secondary factor.

why would you be amazed? Do you really find practicing accuracy to be that boring or am I missing something?

Because that shows a serious commitment, which is very uncommon from the standpoint of the sad reality of today. Just the other day some dude I barely know from the DZ sent me a FB message saying "I decided I want to start BASE jumping. I need you to teach me." - That's the much more common approach to BASE in today's world. And it's sad.

So if someone does a few dozen plane jumps with their BASE canopy as a main, it's a great skill building tool.

I have a new friend that's doing that to me now

Chances are I'll actually teach him when he's ready but who knows. He's already contacted someone all the way in Florida If he puts in the time and effort that matches his current motivation level, I think he'll do ok.

Yeah I know you're reading this.

well maybe he shows up at the dropzone with a base canopy to practice with because of my thread