Basejumper.com - archive

Isn't ty-8 tape good enough aesthetically? The relax had mini risers at first, but fortunately they abandoned the practice. It's only a prototype rig (by jojo wings), but seriously, why play russian roulette while playing russian roulette? Let the manufacturer bashing frenzy begin

http://www.youtube.com/...LnmYNKo-8SoKkV1cfFRX

(at 1:20)

are you sure its ty17?
the jojo wings rigs that ive seen (thats not many) are made of webbings that are used in the paragliding industry. (most likely because its actually a paragliding manufacturer...)

they aren't T17 webbing, just similar width. The weave is completely different.

I know UP uses Kevlar reinforced webbing, this could be something similar

Even if they are made of some new kind of stronger multi-layer material, they will most likely still compromise strength.

But if they are just as strong as ty-8, then awesome!
We could start making whole harnesses with integrated risers out of narrow, lightweight webbing. I'm actually surprised this hasn't been adopted yet from the climbing industry.

why would you want a harness like a g-string?

Have you ever seen lightweight climbing harnesses? They are just as comfortable as regular ones. Yes, the back of the legstraps will be the same width as usual, but everything else can be like 70% lighter

I have been thinking of building a continuous harness out of Type 17 for a long time now. It will easily be strong enough. Not sure it will be good for the "sloppy with their gear" masses though. That being said I don't think I like the idea of Type 17 3-ring risers though.

Wouldn't a reverse 3 ring riser made of type 17 be the same strength as a sewn in/continuous type 17 riser? Obviously one with a grommet punched through it would be weaker. And I believe Dean Potter's free solo rig is made of Type 17, I don't think it has leg pads either. On that note, is there any friction adapter out there thats strong enough for a leg loop, but would accept type 17? I'd love to build myself a type 17 harness but wouldn't want sewn leg loops.

some interesting discussion on dz.com regarding risers

http://www.dropzone.com/...;;page=unread#unread

Nothing is as strong as continuous risers.

Continuous risers are also more failure proof. The white loop at the base of the 3 ring assembly is the most fragile component of our life support system. Eliminating it can make good sense for some jumpers and situations.

I agree, I love having integrated risers
no 3 rings to ever check, or worry about
accidentally disconnecting or breaking,
simple and strong... reserve style.

Tom A. typed:
Continuous risers are also more failure proof. The white loop at the base of the 3 ring assembly is the most fragile component of our life support system. Eliminating it can make good sense for some jumpers and situations.

Other than the obvious - W A T E R
I want to hear stories where the cutaway
system on a BASE rig saved the day, please.

I know the white loop is more than strong enough for its application, but like you said its fragile. So on something that sees a lot more wear and tear than a sky rig (especially the base gear that has standard forward facing 3 rings. Why not use a stronger more durable line? Like a sleeved spectra or something?

I once cut away a cop in tow after landing from a slider up building. Does that count?

how about the stories of an Urban jump where the parachute drapes over a lamp post? the ability to cutaway could enhance the getaway time without sacrificing gear.

Yep.

When I pull the cutaway handle on a rig, 99% of the time it's just for convenience in swapping canopies around between different containers.

The other 1% of the time is either:

1) Water landing in fast moving water (I don't cut away at the bridge, for example, unless it's a cold time of year).

2) Cop in tow. I've had to cut away from gear to make a getaway a couple times. Once was more or less the situation that wwarped is describing, with the canopy caught in a tree and police cars coming towards us with lights and sirens.

3) Accident recovery. I've cut away a canopy several times after an accident, usually to make it easier to extricate an injured jumper.


I wouldn't want my only BASE rig to have continuous risers, but assuming that you're looking at a rig that will only be used in situations where you won't need to cutaway (or, in the case of injury, you are willing to accept some gear damage), there are definitely some advantages.

I almost drowned once. I cutaway within seconds of landing in the river and it was still a near thing. If I hadn't cut away I would have been done no two ways about it. I will never forget the look of my mates faces as they watched me being swept away down river. Lost a lot of nights of sleep over that one.
That being said I still love the comfort/security of wearing a continuous harness.

No stories about saves, but some friends and I were doing water jumps from a 400 ft. cliff and we found that one of the rigs had an impossibly hard pull on the cutaway handle.

We attributed the hard pull to the combination of soft cutaway housings and water.

Ever since then I think of soft housings as being a bad idea.

Walt

I had a conversation with a well-known BASE gear manufacturer years ago. We were talking about gear trends.

The standard for BASE (and skydiving) bridles at the time was 1 in. square weave. He told me that he had been getting a bunch of requests for bridles to be made out of a smaller, weaker material.

We both thought the trend was really stupid but his view was tempered by this little gem:

"You can either be right or you can stay in business."

I will never forget that. Gear manufacturers do not dictate gear trends--they respond to market demands, even demands they do not agree with. They will not knowingly produce lethal gear but they may take gear in a direction they don't think is best because that is what their customers are demanding.

That is something for jumpers to keep in mind.

Walt

I secure my 3 ring with a self designed system on jumps that do not require an immediate cutaway. The good thing is that there is no chance of unintentional cutaway, and in case you do need to execute one, the system can be removed by using only 2 fingers in 20 seconds for each riser.

Wow! This thread has been hijacked pretty badly
Anywhore,
1. Smaller does not necessarily mean weaker, I have a few draws made of 0.5" Dyneema (Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene is currently the strongest type of polymer on Earth) rated at 30 Kn (6700 pounds). That tape can be bought for 5$/m here, probably less in north America. Seriously, we live in the (last time I checked) 21st century! Why use materials that have been around for a 100 years? Being conservative is usually probably kinda good, but to THAT extend?

2. Making a reconfigurable rig (L-bars on some jumps and 3rings on others) is easy once you get RW6 rings!

Little Pressure is need to Hold the 3-Ring closed on Opening Shock . In a hanging Harness & dropped . you can hold the 3-rings closed with just pressure of your 2 pinky fingers holding the Loops in the drop . I think the pressure needed to keep closed in opening shock is less than 5Lb.s on each Loop .

The Riser Loop in the 3-ring release system does not even come close the wear & tear on every jump done . Compared to the Loop in LRT/loop-ring-Toggle system . On the Toggle system on the same set of Risers .
That Loop on the LRT is beat to shit 100 times worse on every Jump, Is open to the abuse of jump & re-packing after every Canopy opening Plus Loop is under possible 'Higher' structural strain on Heavy body weight of larger jumpers .
...............

& in Looking under the webbing cover sewn over/on top the Loop in the LRT & 3-ring system . All that is holding the 550 type 2A in the 3-ring loop down . & same 550 Loop in LRT from blowing . Is One Bartack with each of them . & in it's design the Covers serves purpose on ' helping ' preserving Bar-tack integrity .

So basically . All that is really saving your life on every jump from a spinning Canopy death to the ground from 'Catastrophic Riser Failure' attributed from Opening Shock .
Is the smallest thing of thread patterns sewn . ( 4 Bar-Tacks ) . w/ 2 of them on each of your Risers .
Quote : suggested proper construction/schematics of Riser Construction/Relative Workshop . 3-Ring Release System .
It's a . 8" type 2A 550 lb. Sheathed folded in half .
with ( One, 5/8" in length Bartack ) . & sewn with a ( minimum of ) 42 stitches , per Inch .
.

I have even seen risers where the loop is held in place by no more than the zig zag stitch that held the "cover/wrap" in place ie. no bartack underneath.

Jumped the trolls a lot last summer Had a jump where I landed down by the river as usual, nice and soft. My pc however found its way into a small stream (3ft wide, 2ft deep.) that ran from the river, kind of around the landing on one side. It pulled my canopy in and filled to cells with water and within seconds, it dragged me in. I got it out without using my cutaway but it was a fucking battle!! Had this been in the actual river 20meters away my cutaway would have saved my life. I would stand no chance. Never getting a rig without cutaway (many fjords and rivers in Norway as you all know) and in my eyes it's reckless jumping without it where water landings are a possible outcome... I always use these as well[/image]