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Both are solid objects, hence you
do not get the luxury of a tail wind.

E's are usually more remote, so perhaps
you are further from medical attention.

B's are usually illegal-ish, hence a touch
more pressure, plus the landing areas
are often tight and filled with obstacles.

PS: I am posting this for discussion purposes
and hopefully to help some newbies with the
thoughts of more seasoned jumpers.

Interesting poll--each site is unique. Nearly all of my low cliffs have been water landings, so much of the landing risk of low cliffs became a non-issue.

A "safe" BASE site has its own set of risks, though, because complacency can creep in. After all, what can go wrong on a 400 ft. wall with a guaranteed water landing?

The answer is simple. You can get really cocky and over-delay. Or you can do things, be it multi-ways or aerials, that you are not ready for. You can get sloppy with your packing or exits. In short, you can lose some of the fear that normally drives you to pay attention to the details and have a healthy respect for the risk you are taking.

In that sense, an site that is obviously dangerous has one built-in safety factor--the fact that complacency and denial of risk are less likely.

Walt

Drowning.

#111

Are you calling 400ft low?

I didn't call it anything, but if you want me to categorize it, I'd say it is at the lower end of the medium height range.

When jumping rounds into water, 400 ft. into a guaranteed water landing feels really comfortable. Enough height so you can deal with deployment issues and not so much height that there is a lot of opportunity for screwing up under canopy.

That was the point--that really laid-back comfortable jumps have their own risk profile that includes a strong tendency to cause complacency.

What are your thoughts?

Walt

to echo Walt, the most difficult jump is the one taken for granted and thus under prepared.

also, which ever one is the last letter required to achieve BASE.

wwarped typed:

which ever one is the last letter required to achieve BASE

I'lll bite, please explain why...
Usually is it the B or the E since
most people start on A's or S's.

Perhaps it's just that decision making gets flawed as someone tries to close out their BASE qualification.

It's just like summit fever to mountaineers. The closer you are to the summit, the greater the tendency to make bad decisions, because I'm almost there....

This is, after all, a human pursuit, and we are emotional beings...

~ Chris

That danger is easily mitigated by never applying for a number. :D


Depends highly on the country or even region where you live in. Most likely around Idaho or even around US most people start off S´s but then again in Norway (or even in Europe in broader sense) lot of people start off E´s. For me for example the last missing letter was actually S since I never was that interested in the whole number thing and therefore was not really interested in traveling to an S to get it done. (Also a big contributing factor was that the country I was living at that time really did not have any proper S´s so I really would have needed to travel for it. And I was much more interested in spending my travel budget on other more interesting things, like terminal E´s for example.)

I agree.



I agree also. That same complacency may or may not kill you, however, it may kill someone else. Wether it be the big walls in Norway, or the little Wanda's in the the U.S. People see the "locals" who have jumped an object a hundred times and see the "routine" and mimic that. I am surprised there aren't more deaths at the Perrine because of this.

You could come jump an object that I have jumped a hundred times and prepare and execute completely different than I, and you could be a better BASE jumper than I.

Like you said, each object has its own risk profile. That is true to an extent. I believe the jumper has the risk profile.

What do you think?

i think you're spot on.

a low building in high winds with a bunch of power lines with guys on the ground shooting at you with shotguns

Most dangerous jump is anything that is new and unfamiliar. If you always jump sub 400' slider off and find yourself on a terminal cliff, or slider up 800 footer, etc. On the other side of that coin is that the most dangerous jump is anything that is overly familiar. Hell... It's ALL dangerous!!!

How about the last letter required to achieve legal BASE?

what do you think?
what if a B is only legal for an event, a movie, etc. it is not the friendliest object. the winds are wrong. the jumper who set it up still lacks his B, and this is his chance.

lack of emotional control and discipline really does not care if an object is legal or not.

Very true!

All good points fellas.

I definitely can relate to the last idea.
Most of my jumps are low and when I
am exiting from above a 1,000 feet on
an antenna I have to really mentally
prepare by telling myself a few times
"you must take a H e a l t h y delay"

In my expiriance, low B pca's are no biggy, but low E are scarry as hell.

this cliff. you're looking at so much rad shit to pop your mind that things like exit, body position and proper pull times get very difficult.

How in the world did you get the Lloyd Bridges from Airplane avatar? Basejumper.com would not approve the same avatar for me over the last several years.

Thats not low.

that's not Lloyd Bridges, that's me at a halloween party. good job right?!

and Jools, that's a low cliff if you're a Norwegian!! and just look at the landing hazards, fuck cars and boulders, try weaving your way through a sea of thong bikinis and yachts under canopy. that's some sketchy shite right there!!

High enough for us to do 5 ways off. ;-)

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150295059984850

I used to assume that legal Bs were the hardest, but I think I got mine without even knowing it at the time. It was not the typical urban B, but it met the regularly used definitions. Public land, and I never trespassed or broke any posted rules.

For me, a legal A has been the hardest to get as it is the last one I don't have. I'm not lucky enough to be friends with any landowners, but I'd pay a lot of beer to meet a friendly one!

A low cliff with wild mountain goats on a red necks property with a cactus and boulder ridden LZ that is directly behind the owners outhouse.

well Green,


Lets say Both are 350 feet and both jumped in ideal weather conditions and have good landing areas.


Ask yourself this: Which would you rather do a Gainer off?


1. a corner the Building OR 2. the Low cliff

alot of low cliffs have steep Talus' littered with boulders etc. you have to deal with as well (like in MOAB) if you have a 180 , line twist or both or....

The corner of a perfect B has 270 degrees
of forgiveness for off-headings while most
E's have 180 degrees or less forgiveness.

Slider-up A's usually have (3) 120 degree
sectors but the right winds and some luck
can over come total and absolute failure.

The only flippy-do's I have are off of the
1,000' KL Tower, 876' NRGB, 486' Perrine
so I am not a good person to ask about
doing back-flips from 350 feet...

You should ask Ian and those crazies

Not a joke but in my opinion,

cliffs are the most technical and most dangerous type of objects to do of 'em all.

my first jump was with the most experienced cliff jumper in the world at the time, JD Walker (BASE 37), a weirdo known as Kenn Noble, and my mentor Steve Morrell (BASE 174).

it's kind of like rock climbing mixed with cliff weather. essentially, we are bad-mitten feathers next to an exceptionally dangerous environment.

the thing that i noticed that was significant regarding the possibility of a cliff strike: how smooth is that wall? a textured wall will pull you apart. in the old days, a wall strike meant death by such a scenario.

460 typed:in the old days, a wall strike meant death

What sir has changed?

Vents, Pads, Practices?

FYI - I have only 3 E's.

Far better parachute equipment.