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Hi, I'm new at BASE and I would like to know which of the following is the correct way to close the tailgate:

1: two laps with rubber band cut in half
2: two laps but with black rubber band
3: two laps with rubber band
4 th two rounds of rubber band but with the rubber attached to the tailgate

What is the correct way to close it?

Please help me and Merry Christmas !!!

Im new too, but here is my 2 cents

dont use black rubber bands. especially if your rig will potentially be stored somewhere hot...they can melt and lock shit up

I use a small rubber band cut in half. then two wraps above the knot. I think like the far right picture, but with the rubberband cut in half.


oh... and like I was told: fill out your profile

"above the knot" is important phrase

The following things can contribute to tailgate hangups:

1) Using the wrong rubber band. The correct rubber band is the "small band cut in half" or, actually, a 1 1/4" x 3/16" rubber band. This size can be ordered from the manufacturer directly, so there is no need to sit around with scissors cutting up a bunch of rubber bands to make them the right width.

2) Tying the rubber band to the tailgate and placing the wraps inboard of the knot. When the wraps slide across the knot, they can hang up, causing the tailgate to stay closed.

3) Placing the tailgate too low on the C line. The tailgate should be placed as high as possible on the C line without catching tail fabric. Ideal placement is right at the very top of the control lines.


The following can contribute to tailgate failure (i.e. the opening does not have the tailgate constraint, and occurs in a tail first fashion).

1) Worn out rubber bands. If you tie the rubber band onto the tailgate, you will eventually wear it out and it will break. If you are lucky, it will break during it's last opening. If you are unlucky, it will break during the climb, the hike, or while being thrown into the trunk of the car to drive to the object. If that happens you will get to have an untailgated (tail first inflation) opening.

For this reason, I do not recommend tying the rubber band to the tailgate--I prefer to use a new rubber band for every jump, minimizing the chance that a worn rubber band will fail prematurely and give an untailgated opening.


Of the four methods you have shown, I would choose the first. Given a wider selection, I might wrap the rubber band another time (three "laps" as you say).

If you are worried that you will run out of rubber bands, feel free to send me a PM and I will mail you a bunch of them.

If you are even more worried, call up the manufacturer and order yourself a couple pounds of rubber bands cut to the proper width (3/16") for BASE. They are not listed on their standard catalog, but the price is the same as the skydiving width (3/8") listed here. I order about 20 pounds of rubber bands at a time, but most jumpers probably won't need a supply that large.

what are the dangers of using a 3/8" opposed to the 3/16"

I have used a 3/8" on several jumps but with 1 less wrap then the 3/16 and could not detect any difference.

3/16" has a lower breaking strength. In the event that the tailgate rubber band somehow becomes entangled, it will take more force for the 3/8" band to break, and therefore make a hangup more likely.

When we select a rubber band for a parachuting purpose, we aren't just selecting a minimum strength--we are also selecting a maximum strength. Parachute deployments are very complex systems, and they can fail in very unforeseen ways because of the amount of chaos involved when we--basically--take a tent and toss it out a car window, expecting it to set itself up properly. One of the reasons we use rubber bands is that they will act as a fail safe in the event that some part of the system malfunctions (in this case, if the rubber band somehow hangs up on the tailgate). Using a stronger rubber band (like the black ones that hopefully no one is using anymore) can lead to a hangup simply because they are too strong. The same reasoning (although to a lesser extent, as they are weaker than the black ones) applies to the 3/8" bands.

Also, the stronger and more durable a rubber band you use, the more likely you are to be tempted to leave it on for "just one more jump." That makes it more likely to have it fail prematurely (in the pack tray before deployment), leaving you with an untailgated deployment.

I've also used a woman's hair tie, masking tape, and several strands of elastic from my sock. :)

If you're using masking tape you're best off to remove the tailgate and put the tape directly around the bundle of lines.

I once had a friend rig a static line with a used condom. I wonder if there's a way to work one of those into a tailgate system?

Ew. Hope it was his.

Just to change the subject since it was drifting anyway...I once heard a "DZ rigger" say he reduced pin friction by lubing the closing loops with KY jelly (this really happened back when I was looking into switching from dacron to spectra).

soup dont you have anything better to do on xmas than type?

GO HUCK OR FLY SOMETHING!!!!!!!

haha, 6th day of Hanukkah tonight. :) Had two amazing speedflights with the Schrundy last night, but today the weather sucks so I'm trollin. :)

i hear ya. my gear is sittin in the closet staring at me. everyones gone here so im sittin at the crash pad, getting liquored up

ill see you in early march when i get back from VA

I always thought that black rubber bands were universally frowned upon due to their higher breaking strain.

And ensure that it is positioned in the same location and stays that way. If it slides down the brake lines then the force they exert on the tape gate decreases, possibly to the point of a hang up.

You should also make sure the tape is clean, dry and unwrinkled. Dirt, moisture and wrinkling can change the breaking strength quite dramatically. It's easy to see this for yourself by just playing around with some tape at home for a few minutes.

"Universally" is a tricky concept.

I think that most jumpers, including manufacturers who used to recommend the black rubber bands, have now decided that they are a bad idea.

There will always be jumpers who, out of habit, laziness, or just stubbornness, refuse to adopt standard safety techniques. I've also met jumpers who use older technology as a sort of badge of manhood, because it makes them more "hard core" to do things in a manner that is less safe.

There are also some jumpers making less than mainstream gear and rigging choices as the result of thoughtful, reasoned decision making. They've just made a different assessment than the majority.

It is not the color, per se,
but rather the thickness
of an elastic band that
makes it a poor choice.

At one gear shop I saw
a bag of 8ish thick pink
bands for sale at $50
but they came with a
free reserve repack.

Close, but I believe that the black bands were bad due to the type of rubber not its thickness.

True...ish... an elastic band
that is too thick will kill you
now while an elastic band
that melts will kill you later.

Thin, Tan Bands from Keener
have yet to kill any one ever.

PS: Hopppy New Year Fledgling

Actually it is just plain correct Straight out the box the black rubber bands have a significantly higher breaking strain than keener type rubber bands of the same size.
Not sure if they actually ever caused a tailgate hang up but several documented cases of bridle hang ups on Prisms equipped with a multi that was stowed using black bands exist. I believe it was those bridle hang ups that led to the conclusion that black bands were no good for use with tail gates.
I'm sure Tom A could add more specific info as it was a bit before my time.

And a Happy New Year to you too.

There was an extremely well documented case of tailgate hang up on a black rubber band in Canada, about 10 years ago. The jumper impacted with the canopy still bow tied in the tailgate, but fortunately it was a jump in Canada, during the winter, so the snowbank he hit more or less saved him from injury.

They shot a bunch of video in the landing area when they tried to clear the tailgate, and posted it all up on-line.

AWESOME!

What are you doing in the closet? I thought you came out of the closet YEARS ago?

Tom, question here. What do you think would happen if someone put three wraps of clear scotch tape around the lines for a tape gate? The reason I am asking is I saw this done once on a pack job I was checking out for someone. I took it off and used blue tape. I would think it would just roll up into a doughnut and not release. For some reason I think I have heard this before?!?! What do you think?

dont you have a video clip of someone at the Perrine who has a hang up due to black bands? spirals out of control and it finally releases low and he lands on the beach?

I thought that the documented case ( on video ) of the Black rubber band hang-up . Was on a PC assist on deployment also ? .
So it was about the slowest deployment speed a Jumper can possibly Do . & especially if you 'Over wrap' the in-board in a manor that totally locks the In-board C-D Lines & Break-lines together .

I had a tailgate lock on my first jump – December 13th 2003, D-Bag deployment, jumping from a dam at about 1800 m. So not only a slow deployment but also not much pressure in the cells.

I pumped the toggles and counter steered the turns- only thing I could think of, because I had never heard of that kind of malfunction.
The tailgate opened about 30m above ground.

While packing for the jump my mentor showed me the “new” and “longer lasting” black rubber bands. He asked me to break one and I barely managed it.

I still have a bag of black rubber bands that came with my first rig sitting around, even after 8 years they haven’t deteriorated.
I haven’t used them since and would strongly advice against using them.

Actually, yes, I do. He cleared the tailgate hangup and landed in the lower landing area, downwind, on risers. He wasn't using a black rubber band, though. He was using a full size (not cut in half, and longer--like the kind you would use as a locking stow under the tail pocket) rubber band.

Yes, the case in Canada was a PCA. Lower airspeed definitely contributes to tailgate hangup, because less airspeed means less force to blow open the tailgate.

I have some video somewhere of a case where it happened in Belgium on a free fall. In that case, the tailgate was also placed very low on the line, so there was less pressure on the tailgate because of the deflection of the control lines.

I think it would be more likely to hang up than masking tape, but I also think it would work most of the time.

I've used scotch tape (called "cello tape" by the guy who showed me, on account of his poor command of proper English) as a tailgate replacement before, but it has been a long time since I've done it.

I think the proper name is cellophane tape. Its kind of like saying Kleenex for a tissue. Scotch tape is a name brand cellophane tape.

In proper English, we say "scotch tape" instead of "cello tape", "coke" instead of "pop" and "bathroom" instead of "toilet." Most importantly, we always say "dude" and never "mate."

As soon as all the troops get home from Iraq, we're going to redeploy them to countries speaking improper English and begin re-educating the populace there.

At the same time, we will abolish the archaic and inefficient metric system and replace it with a proper system of measure. We will also make sure that all steering wheels are moved to the proper side of the vehicle and that all traffic moves on the correct (right) side of the road.

And while I'm thinking about it, what's up with all those 'u's that have snuck into the end of "-or" words. I noticed that they've even misspelled the name of the Sydney Harbor Bridge on the official website.

or kinda like saying POME in reference to a brit, petrol for gasoline, seppo for a yank, root for a good shag, handy for a handjob, etc.

I guess its my day to argue.

Scotch tape is a slang.

Scotch tape is a BRAND. There are hundreds of Scotch tapes and only one is cellophane tape..

Hand me a Kleenex for the wine!or whine :)

Clearly you do not understand the importance of these linguistic issues in guaranteeing the future peace and security of the Western World (by which I mean the United States and it's various minions).

We will be dispatching a crack team of peacekeeping puppets to your location shortly, to begin your re-education.

Good I need someone to talk to

There's a fantastic article in the December 17th issue of The Economist on euphemisms. The author goes on at length about the myriad British euphemisms that exist, but eventually concludes that Americans have more euphemisms, because we're too soft-hearted to say things plainly.

EUPHEMISMS: Making Murder Respectable

This little tangent sounded relevant to Tom's tangent...

Let me get you a side of frenchcries with that burger and call u a whaaaaambulance while you sip on all that hate-o-rade!!!!!

On your Post you are saying ( 2 Wraps ) with a rubber band .
I think you mean 1-1/2 actually . If you have ( Half-Hitched/tied ) the rubber band to one side of the Tail-gate .
One wrap is not really a wrap & it does not count for anything . because one-wrap does not restrain anything . When you lop over the tail-gate with a wrap & then twist & go over again . That is 1-1/2 Wraps .

& the Correct answer is :
A black rubber band cut in Half & 1-1/2 wraps .
With also your Tail-gate permanently tacked to it's inboard Line so as to never loose it .
.

Any chance that could interfere with your slider (on slider up jumps)?

Not if you use a hot glue gun to keep the slider above the tailgate.

No . a permanently attached Tail-gate does not interfere with anything . & it has about as much chance as interfering with a Slider as your all the other permanently attached Lines that surround it in a Pack-job, along with Canopy fabric & Air-flow from opening sequences to canopy pressurization .

And when you learn & do BASE jump by actually doing it . It's So much easier to Smell around here on the BASE.com what is being Shoveled as Fact .
.

What manufacturer sells 3/16 rubber? I can't find any anywhere

Keener Rubber has them. They aren't on the web site so you have to call on the phone to place an order.

http://www.keenerrubber.com