Basejumper.com - archive

Would you still jump/start to jump if you knew for sure that in 5 years time of intensive jumping you will either:

-become paraplegic
-or die

?

--

Don't know if I expressed myself correctly - would you still base jump if you knew that in 5 years time of base jumping there is a 100% chance that you will have an accident (while base jumping) in which you either be a paraplegic or die.

What I actually mean is about the risk perception. I noticed in myself that even though I may know that I can die or be seriously injured I'm not that scared and that perception won't stop me from let say base jumping.

But if I knew that there is a 100% chance that I will die/get seriously injured, then my feelings change and I even feel that it may not be worth it. The risk stays the same, but perceptions changes.

So I can easily say that "everybody dies, so better die this way" and even though it seems that I really mean it, I don't, because if I meant it, I would not feel any different knowing that I will certainly die, but I do feel differently.

So is it worth it? Would you be able to spend next 20 years in a wheelchair in exchange for 5 years of jumping? Am curious about people who really perceive everything as it really is and came to a true acceptance and peace with it.

No, I would wait 20 years so i get a grand total of 25 years

We all die somehow... why hide in fear of the inevitable..

You know, apart from this being one of the more weirder posts..

The jumpers who have been paralysed are still jumping..


and although i dont believe in god or heaven..

i think that the dead jumpers some of them my friends are still base jumping wherever they are...



Ask a stupid question get a stupid answer

Good answer and all true!

Isn't the world going to end next year anyways?

well, what exactly do you mean? if i knew for sure that in 5 years i would die (or become paraplegic), then i would just stop in 4 years and 11 months and (just to be safe) 21 days. Because then, the certainty of negative consequence on the NEXT jump would be catastrophic, and then, I would most probably refrain form jumping.

everything else is just statistics, and everyone thinks they are special and can beat the odds. (that is the principle on which Vegas operates, too).

I, too, for that matter think i can beat the odds. But I am also working VERY, VERY hard on my luck.

maybe you would like to make your question a little more specific?

blue skies,
flummi

Don't know if I expressed myself correctly - would you still base jump if you knew that in 5 years time of base jumping there is a 100% chance that you will have an accident (while base jumping) in which you either be a paraplegic or die.

What I actually mean is about the risk perception. I noticed in myself that even though I may know that I can die or be seriously injured I'm not that scared and that perception won't stop me from let say base jumping.

But if I knew that there is a 100% chance that I will die/get seriously injured, then my feelings change and I even feel that it may not be worth it. The risk stays the same, but perceptions changes.

So I can easily say that "everybody dies, so better die this way" and even though it seems that I really mean it, I don't, because if I meant it, I would not feel any different knowing that I will certainly die, but I do feel differently.

So is it worth it? Would you be able to spend next 20 years in a wheelchair in exchange for 5 years of jumping? Am curious about people who really perceive everything as it really is and came to a true acceptance and peace with it.

Would you start/still jump if you knew on your first/next jump you could die?

this is basically time travel - watch the movie Donnie Darko.

that is the risk we take every time we leave th ep, if you say NO then you should take up bowling.
or realize what kind of risk you are subjecting yourself to everytime you base jump.

There is not such a thing as a 100% Chance... The word chance always leaves a possibility, even if only 0.000001%. And I,, same as many other jumpers, live with the illusion that we are part of this 0.0000001%

A human THINKs ideas with their mind and
FEELs emotions/sensations with their body.

On average ~200 people a year die from auto
collisions with deer while ~0 people a year die
from tandem skydiving but ask any random
citizen which scares them more...

People are very worried about having hand guns
and children in the same house but the FACT is
more kids die from downing than gunshots so why
aren't more people scared of swimming pools?

Are you talking to me?

nope, just making a general statement about realizing the risks we take.

i just quoted your statement so it would be apparent as to what i was referring to.

and btw whats up with the appalacian trail base shirts? i pmd you for one a couple months ago. im still patiently waiting for a response

You did? Lemme check into that...

Say what? How do you figure the risk stays the same between a jump that can be made succesfully and one that can't?


No you're not, you're curious about how people perceive your hypothetical not real scenario.

When I started BASE jumping in the early eighties we were absolutely astounded that Phil Smith, or anybody for that matter, could survive to make a 100th jump.

Things changed.

Now I can't count on my fingers and toes all those with more than 1000!!!

There is a long, way too long, list of fatalities. Nobody on that list would have accepted that they were going to be injured as a matter of fact. They accepted that there was a chance but that they were also in some control of the odds

I get your hypothetical however. You have some anxiety about the odds as well you should. This stuff is probably among the most hedonistic pursuits known. You know how alone you feel on the edge. If you have thoughts of what your jumping could do to others and have doubts about your actions then listen to the voices and back off. I did.

jon

 A few years ago I came across a terrible car accident. There are three levels of highway where this happened, each level was considerably higher than the next. A tow truck on the top level had an accident with another car, and the tow-truck got knocked off the top level onto the second level, and finally came to rest on the first level. The tow truck landed on top of a Toyota 4-Runner (SUV) and killed a family of four instantly. They never saw it coming.

About a month ago, my Dad and my dog (pictured in my avatar) went on their typical morning walk. They were blind-sided by a truck and my dog was killed.By the grace of God, my Dad managed to survive with a broken pelvis and three broken vertebrae. He could have easily been paralyzed or killed.

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." Helen Keller

I've always been eager to have some terminal illness...not that I want to die, but the idea of having a predetermined amount of time remaining seems like a very liberating thing to me. The knowledge that you have X amount of years left to live allows you to be free of all the bullshit we do everyday just to continue living. When just living is no longer a concern then you are free to REALLY live. Hell yeah, lets jump our asses of for a couple years and then die in style!

This is and has always been true from the day you were born, you do indeed have x amount of years to live. Most of the people I know in base seem to realise this to a greater or lesser extent.
If death from base had a probability of 1 (certain) I would of course stop or just not start. I am prepared to risk death for some things but to choose death? No not for base, life it too rich.

I hope that everyone (or most people) who base jump have considered this prior to entering the sport. I sure have. I understand what could happen but I do it anyways. It's the choice I made.

The OP is doing the internet version of what
I did back in 2006 the few days before the
start of my BASE FJC.

I asked every jumper I met four questions:
1) how many SKY jumps?
2) how many BASE jumps?
3) how many injuries?
4) how many arrests?

I used that information & an assessment
of my own skills to muster the courage to
get over the railing 7 times. Then I quit.

Eventually the Siren's song was too much
and I returned to BASE with enthusiasm!

NakkedDave typed:

...eager to have some terminal illness...

I totally get what you mean.

I am pretty sure The Carrion Man is going
to meet me at one of the following places:
1) Auto Accident
2) Cancer
3) BASE jump
4) Tandem Jump
5) Student Shooting

Back to the OP, please click the word
BEWARE in my signature line and read.

Whose ass did you pull that stat from? Aren't you a tandem instructor? Just this year there was a double fatality on tandem jump. As far as I know the number of tandem fatalities per year, since tandem jumping begun, is around 2-3 per year.

Me and wife got in a little bit of a tussle over skydiving the first day of my aff, the next day i was in a motorcycle accident all by myself in my dads back yard that almost took my left leg (been riding for 15 years), and still am not 100% healed from. im well aware of the risk, but fortunately i have tasted the reward and it is sweet!!!

I learn from yesterday, plan for tomarrow but live for today, and love thoes in my life to the fullest!!

damn, i didn't realize down syndrome was that serious...

I posted:

On average ~200 people a year die from auto
collisions with deer while ~0 people a year die
from tandem skydiving...

Two things: First there is a symbol, ~ , in front
of both figures, which is a Tilde and pronouced
"Till-Da" meaning approximately in math and
Second I did type "on average".

SO if you take ALL of the tandem fatalities
and divide by the number of years there
have been tandem skydiving it works out
to be less than 1 whole death per year...
OR at least it did last time I actually did
the research and calculated the risk*.

YES, I have taken ~1600 pasengers and
ALL of them lived through the experience.

* Please Note: I did remove 3 fatalities
from the data set (fat girl who fell out of
the harness, handi guy who fell out of the
harness, and the Hawaii drowning) when I
ran my calculations. Reason why: I was
running the numbers for a male coworker
who had a pregnant wife who was freaking
out about his jump. He was skinny, able,
& we have no bodies of water near the DZ.

 
Accepting the risk of these sorts of outcomes is completely different from accepting them as a certainty. skydiving, base jumping, cave scuba, big wave surfing and other such sports are certainly spectacular and in my limited experience there is an incredible mix of solitude and camaraderie to be experienced when you are truly on the edge and on your own but sharing the experience with others.

However, I can tell you right now, unfortunately from intimate experience, that injuries of the type that are debilitating: paraplegia, quadriplegia, brain damage and so on are certainly not worth it. These things take away your ability to pursue similar passions; to enjoy life in ways that are meaningful to you - of which BASE is only one. So to answer the question, the rest of your life in a wheelchair is absolutely not a worthy exchange. Just having to roll around all day is only a small fraction of the difficulties and limiting challenges you face with a damaged spine, the reality of it is much, much worse. If that is the price, I'll just go mountain biking or something.

On the other hand, if we look at reality and understand that you can mitigate these risks with a degree of control over your personal odds through preparation, raw skill and so on, then that is certainly a worthy wager. One that I will happily make again, given the chance - though I may not bother with swooping anymore ;)

We don't live forever, we can die so many ways in this busy crazy world. If I die by Base Jumping, Rock Climbing, and so on. At least I will die by my choice of pushing my life my way! I'm at peace with my world !

Live every week like it's shark week.

Just imagine if hypothetical situations did not exist.
Take care,
space

I understand that one can manage the risk and base jump with less than 100% probability of injury/death, but at the same time comparing base jumping as an activity to the others risk involved activities, it is clear to me that it is almost impossible in the long run to avoid making mistakes. Mistakes then translate into a bigger chance of an injury/death.

Now even though on a single jump I may have a 1% chance of an injury, I may have a 50% chance of injury or more in the long run, as I learn to make more complex jumps, especially that the learning curve will make the chances for an injury higher. If I add my natural need to grow and do harder and harder things, even if I try to manage the risk as best as I can, definitely my chances of injury/death in the long run will be fluctuating with the upward trend.

In the end for me, regardless if my chances are higher or lower I couldn't jump without confronting inevitability of an injury/death, even though it may never happen to me. I don't even know for sure that what seems to me less dangerous is actually less dangerous, because of lack of experience and a lot of factors involved in base jumping that nobody have even data for.

So if it is a certain possibility of an injury/death (and I even can't estimate how big), thinking that I will be able to minimize the risk and not get injured is not acceptable. And if I get hurt, let say paraplegic, I don't want to be surprised in the end realizing that I think it wasn't worth it.

After thinking about it since I posted my initial question, I realized that it may be even possible that I may think base jumping is not worth taking any risk, especially dying or getting paraplegic, but I will still jump and take these risks, because base jumping somehow pulls me towards it so hard.

But what is most important, if I end in a wheelchair, even though I may think it wasn't worth it, I won't be surprised. It may not make any difference to somebody, but it makes for me. It removes the kind of a black cloud of uncertainty from behind your back.

Hypothetically speaking, of coarse.

You posted this train wreck of a sentence:

I realized that it may be even possible that
I may think base jumping is not worth taking
any risk, especially dying or getting paraplegic,
but I will still jump and take these risks, because
base jumping somehow pulls me towards it so hard.


WE are parachutist who enjoy BASE jumping.

If one gets paralyzed then he or she will become
either a paraplegic or quadriplegic, depending on
where the spinal cord injury occurs and the
number of limbs affected with paralysis.

This website might be useful to learn more:
http://www.apparelyzed.com/

Space,

I'm sure you didn't miss it, but that's a circular reference. In order to imagine something that is hypothetical is self negating...

See u in Italy @ easter

Dude. STFU and take up knitting or something.

my uncle is a quadraplegic, and he has a better out look on life than 90% of the people i have met, he paints plays harminica, and i take him fishing some times, i riged him up with a cordless drill on his reel so he can do it all him self. some people are scaired of death, and some people just want to know how other people think of death. its human natur to be curios. some people just like to live life on the edge, we all have opinions

I know the real risks better than some people,.......and I still jump.