Basejumper.com - archive

So.........

I'm looking at getting into base next year I have over 2000 skydives and feel I'm now ready to enter the world of base.

I would like to buy a rig before I go on a course so that I can spend time jumping the canopy and learning how the canopy flies intimately.

The question is what canopy??

Having spoken to friends who are all experienced and current jumpers it seems that the main four to consider for myself and the type of jumping I will be doing are:
Flik/Fox/Troll/Blackjack

I have done a fair bit of research into these canopies and characteristics, but I'm now a bit stuck on which avenue to follow. In an ideal world I would do what I do when choosing a new skydiving canopy and test jump a range of canopies and buy the one I feel most comfortable, however in this case this isn't really possible.

I know as much as:

I want a vented canopy
I want a canopy sized between 280-300sqft


What I would like to know is what are other peoples experiences are with these canopies?

Is there much difference in pressurisation speeds/altitudes and opening characteristics between similar size examples?

Flight characteristics comparisons?

And what people prefer to jump and why?

Thanks in advance

Mikee

Hi Mike,

your research results seems pretty good and you are pretty much on the money there. Get any of the canopies you mentioned above as vented and you cannot go wrong. People prefer to jump the canopies they learned to fly so ask 10 people and you will get 10 answers of the preferred canopy regarding the stuff those 10 people learnt to use. As far as I know, more or less all modern vented base canopies (like the 4 you mentioned above) will get the job done. It is just the case of learning to use the one you get properly.

I have personal experience of around 1000 jumps on Trolls and around 200'ish on my Trango and absolutely love them. I would recommend the Troll as a first canopy to anyone but like I said, it is far more important to spend the time on learning to use the canopy properly than actually getting a specific brand just because somebody told you it is "the shit". All of the canopies you mentioned work, now get one and start learning. :)

hi!

where are you from?
why isnt it possible to testjump canopies from plane/balloon?

having jumped only 3 of the 4 canopies you stated, and only having very few jumps on 2 of them, i can only sum up what i heard from other people.

trolls are very docile, do very good in deep brakes, not so reactive on brake input.
fliks are more reactive on brake input and all in all more on the sporty side.

maybe take into consideration (if you got 2 canopies and youre comfortable with both) where the manufacturers are located. if you need something (unless youre a rigger yourself) this might become handy.
but generally i would advise you to try to testjump canopies....

Base canopies that I've jumped include Mojo, Ace, BlackJack, Flik, Fox, and a Raven reserve with a tailpocket retrofitted onto it.

When I got my first rig I had a vented flik, and it seemed to do pretty well, but I thought the flare was a little weak. I just convinced myself that it was just a different flare that I would have to learn better, etc. Later I had to sell that rig and bounced around trying out different stuff for a while.

Now I have a rig with a BlackJack in it and I have noticed a significant difference with it. To me it feels like it glides much farther, is more responsive in turns (5th control line) and has a stronger flare than the Flik. I feel like I've found the canopy that I'm going to hang onto until it's time to buy another BlackJack.

I like having the option to be able to reach a little further with the better glide, even if that means I have to pay more attention to burning off altitude when sinking it in to a tiny landing area.

Either way I think that you probably can't go wrong with a Flik or BlackJack. I've heard mixed reviews with Trolls, but those that have them seem to be very loyal, so I'm sure they are probably good too.

I am from the UK and apart from jumping a mates FOX I havent been able to lay my hands on another canopy to try. A lot of people have recommended a troll, a Flik or a Black Jack. I want a canopy I can jump both here in the UK, and from discussions with active base jumping friends most of that is going to be slider down/off or short slider up delays, but also something I can take to Norway/The Valley to do some terminal jumping with.

There is no second hand kit about at the moment, certainly not in the UK, so Im' probably going to find myself buying new, and sourcing the container from the same manufacturer.

If you want to source the canopy from the same manufacturer as your container then get:

FLiK with:
-Multi
-3/7 vents
-HTS 30%
-Black lines if you like them

Apex DP with:
-Dynamic corners
-WLO toggles
-Whatever other options you like

PC's:
- 46" ZP
- 42" ZP Vented
- 38" ZP Vented

Also:
-Boots
-Cheap Shinguards
-Helmet
-Stash-bag
-Some clamps a pull up cord and something heavy

Also when, I started I bought all of the packing videos out there to see everyone's opinion on the packjob. The one that I personally like the best is Jesse Hall's video, probably because it's the most professionally put together, but also because that pack job, for me, is easy fast clean, and gives good performance.

I recommended the 3/7 on the FLiK for if your planning on taking that thing to terminal a lot, still gives good sd performance without breaking your back on su jumps.

If you want to mix and match your stuff then I'd recommend getting a BlackJack with CUS, and whatever container out there that tickles your fancy. As far as hardware on the containers I personally get cadmium or black phosphate if you want to be a ninja, mainly because I'm nervous about stainless steel slipping.

Your research has failed you. You must decide which canopy looks the best in the colors you want and if it matches your rig

Like everyone said all the models you mentioned will work well. While there are some differences between those canopies, they are all low aspect rataio square 7 cells, so those differences are very minor, nothing like an elliptical 9 cell vs a docile 7 cell in skydiving.

You wants vents and you want to strongly consider the 5th brake line and decide if it's a good option for you. Unless you got really long arms I strongly recommend it.

The composite ZP foreskin is another OPTION you should look into, but some people say it may nto be a good option for a beginner. Personally, I am still not sure which way I lean on this :)

I have jumped all of those canopies and the my personal opinion is that to a beginner the differences are quite negligible.

The 5th brake line is somewhat controversial, (just search for it on this forum), and has been removed by some manufacturers quit some time ago.

try to get contact on basejumper.org and try to contact other british jumpers that could borrow you a canopy. (pm sent)

oh really ?

Flik used to offer it as standard on all their canopies. Now it's an chargeable option. (also an option on FOXs)
ACE/BlackJack offer it as standard , but changed the configuration a number of years back
Troll used to have it as standard and I *believe* now it's an option

which manufacturer "removed it quite some time ago" ???

woah... dude, calm down, i really didnt want to step on your toes.

trolls come with 4 control lines, asfaik there is no option, but of course, if you ask for it you maybe get it.

what i was trying to communicate was, that there are still some people out there that think the 5th is a bad idea (and some manufacturers made an option out of it and selling the 4 lines as standard).
and in comparison to, lets say the tailgate for slider down, it is controversial, therefore sold as an option.

but seems like this thread is just going to be another christmas present list where every jumper "strongly recommends" the canopy he would love to find under his christmas tree...

What would also be interesting to hear, is peoples experiences with these canopies? What do you jump? How do you find it flies? Opens? Do you jump with a 5th Cascade on your brake lines?

It seems that these canopies are very similar, and people will recommend what they jump because thats their experience.

Thanks

So you registered just to ask this question to a bunch of strangers? Have you been here before under a different name?

No not at all, I registered because like it says in my first post that I am planning on starting my base career next year. I have been reading through the posts on these forums and had some questions to ask. I think that there is a wealth of information to be learned from the *decent* members of the base community, and wanted to see what people thought about the different canopies available on the market, and also their experiences with these canopies.

Secondly no, I haven't re registered on here under a different name. I'm not some spotty 16yr old kid with no skydiving experience who wants to get into base because it looks cool. I've spent a long time skydiving and teaching skydiving and know would like to enter the world of base.

I've always believed that an informed decision is the right decision, and therefore have joined this forum to gain as much information as possible from:
1. Peoples experiences
2. Peoples opinions
3. Peoples mistakes

Touche'

And goodluck on your quest, sir.

if you've taught newbies skydiving, then you know that they really never grasp much from discussion. they only truly gain understanding from experience. the best you can do with a newly stamped off A-license holder is direct them to a parachute that won't kill them.

BASE is NOT skydiving. all BASE canopies are designed to do basically the same thing. the differences between them are trivial compared to the wide variety of skydiving mains. selecting between BASE canopy models (for someone with zero experience) is about as crucial as selecting which goggles to buy. (sizing is a different matter.)

OR see what the people you plan on jumping with actually jump. then get that. it will let them provide YOU with better advice as you progress.