Basejumper.com - archive

hi guys

does anybody has experiance with the snekor rig by s-fly?
would love to get some point of views

thx a lot

Let's have a look on the official site:
http://www.flyyourbody.com/...p/base-jump-rig.html

There it is said first that:"The SNEKOR is a last generation base-jump harness designed for terminal velocity jumps "

and immediately below one can read that:"This system has been tested for 3 years by Loïc JEAN-ALBERT on all type of base jumps."

That does not make any sense...Is it for terminal jumps or also for all types of jumps?

where's the confusion?

it's pretty clear to me that it is a rig "designed for terminal velocity jumps" but the TOGGLE design has been tested on all types of jumps.

being designed for one thing but tested and used for other things makes perfect sense to me.

my Profile / Feather is also designed for terminal jumps, but i have used it slider down on multiple occasions.

Does anybody have enough experience with this rig to explain this:

"...You can steer your canopy even when twisted. ..."

I'm assuming they're claiming the toggles would be under any line twists allowing you to still pull them... but that's just an idea, I've never heard of this rig before this post.

But usually with line twists you can easily grab your toggles anyway. The problem is that steering lines are in twists

Anyone explain?

also, I have never heard of this rig until this post, How longs it been around?

first version has been placed around 2007, but now they write about a new version "snekor 2011".
would really like to get more informations for the new one as so far it looks really great for ws and tracking.

I could be wrong, but having the toggles on the mud flaps would mean you could grab them even in a line twist where the toggles would normally be wrapped in a twist on the risers. Id be weary to grab a toggle in a twist personbally, because if you pull one down and the twist holds it in brakes or a deeper turn on one side and not the other, that could prove problomatic.

This is exactly my thought, If you pull your toggles in a line twist, It will not go back up... causing your turn to continue. and get worse...and i dont see how having them on the mudflap makes them able to be used during line twists...

I have had multiple line twists in skydiving where I still went for toggles (easier slider on/up since when the twists come out you can let go and regrab the toggles if they are in the wrong hand)... also keeping in mind with one twist the brake lines *should* move up and down withough having enough tension to keep them static.... but that is only from a skydiving canopy and a fairly hefty wing loading so how that would translate to the toggle pressure and a BASE canopy is mere speculation.

This is also would only be the case in 1 maybe 2 line twists... More then that, u can forget about it. Also would never touch the toggles in a line twist in a slider off/down config.

I use this rig for all types of base jumps and have taught beginners with it too

The confusion comes from the fact that the website has not been updated in a while and the English Version of the site is kind of poorly translated.

The toggle system is one of the best selling points. advantages of this toggle system exist regardless of where you choose to place the toggles (down low by chest/ shoulder straps or in normal spot) The toggles free themselves smoother than standard setups and place less strain on the gear. less maintenance is necessary. Brake lines wear out less quickly and there are not those silly shoe string loop things that also start to fray.

advantages of the lower more accessible toggle placement go beyond just being able to steer while zipped in a wingsuit. you actually take control of the canopy quicker, because you have eliminated the slack in the brake line. upon clearing the toggles you are steering, just a split second faster, but it is noticeable and it is a smoother transition.

The rig is good for all sorts of jumps. If you are jumping slider down primarily, you may consider that, with the snekor, you do not have the option to drop a toggle to free a brake line line-over malfunction.

I jump primarily slider up and have not had a slider down line over in quite some time, so i don't sweat it.

Indyoshi typed: inexperienced speculation

In my opinion you should NOT use toggles,
SKY or BASE, to get out of linetwists, ever!

I have experienced & lived through having
linetwists: slider-up, slider-down, and even
had to chop a tandem once because of lots
of linetwists + kid on the front was a ra-tard.

Risers and using your body to untwist is the
way out. Oh and I do not like the "bicycle"
your legs advice the SIM gives, I prefer to
use a Cresent Kick .

Back to the Snekor...

Yeah I thought the main attraction, like JT
said, was for wingsuit pilots being able to
steer without unzipping their 'SBD'.

I have not jumped one yet but the idea of
the break line not having slack is cool...
because it takes a while for most pilots to
get the hang of releasing brakes smoothly.

Having a hard time visualizing how the toggle system works. Can someone post pics? I mean, are the toggles themselves under tension during deployment?
''Brake setting is in the standard place on the risers and is undone by pulling the toggles down.'' Don't quite get it, the brake line is locked off on the riser, but the toggles are down on the chest
As for line-overs, maybe releasable toggles can be made for this rig.

the eyelet (hole) in the brake line is at the normal spot, but the excess brake line between that and the toggle runs down the riser to where you see them mounted close to the chest strap on the front of the shoulder straps

xoxo

How is the break eyelet secured? with a Pin? can the cover flap be pulled back to do a gear check on the break setting?

i would worry about accidentally dislodging the breaks with having the toggle stowed on the exterior. especially while in a stash bag with other gear stuffed in there.

also, if it was used for say a SD jump, if the canopy had a DBS that was dialed in wouldn't the placement of the toggles in this system potentially induce a stall when released by pulling the toggles past the stall point to get them to release? obviously the setup isn't the right tool for a SD jump but just a thought.

Thanks a lot. But how is the eyelet (brake line setting) set? Usually the the stiffened end of the toggle goes through the eyelet in the brake line and into the elastic keeper, right? But now the toggle is not on the riser, so how is that brake line set in place?

edit: wow, STi was posting the same question that I was writing.

Most of the times I agree, but in a situation where I'm locked in my wingsuit, have several rounds of linetwists and I'm just a second from hitting the wall I would seriously consider grabbing the toggles if i could. How much worse can it get? It is probably my best chance on walking unhurt away from the scene.

SO. Response to your first paragraph: It is secured very smartly with two pieces of that yellow cutaway cable stuff And yes, there is a pin involved. A picture is worth a thousand words. But i am not near my rig right now. It is an ocean away.

I don't know what a mud flap is, but before you jump you can be double sure your toggles are secure. The key thing that needs to be realized/ visualized is that the toggle setting and the brake setting are not in the same place. the brake setting is in the traditional spot up on the risers, and one can opt to put the toggles there too or you can opt to put the toggles in the lower accessible spot.

Response paragraph 2: You could never dislodge the brakes, only the toggles and that can be checked at exit. I have never once fully dislodged a toggle in the stuff sack/ carrying phase, but I have re-secured the pin occasionally at exit, maybe 5 times in 500 jumps and it would have been fine anyway

Response paragraph 3:

Good question regarding DBS, but all the same logic applies. In a DBS you will have a bit of slack in between your brake setting and your toggle setting. That slack is equal to the length difference in between your shallow and deep brake setting. So about 3 inches of slack, as opposed to 12 to 14 or so some odd inches of excess brake line slack with toggles stowed at standard spot.

Hope this helps. I wonder if there are some photos on their site. I bet there are, but i have a slow connection right now. www.flyyourbody.com

so the break setting takes the load and then basically it gets cut away by the toggles? (like a 3 ring release without the rings)

Kind of, the yellow cable is doubled and used to provide a stiff insert to lock the brakes. Pretty clever if you ask me. It's hard to explain with typed words, but _very_ simple if you have one in front of you and understand how it works. I packed a lot of that style system for the Transfomers 3 movie and we never had any problems, ever. Pulling down the toggles after opening pulls the line down, and in turn pulls the cables out of a pocket. Because the cables are flexible, the pull can be from almost any direction and still function. A solid pin in this configuration cannot. Hope this helps, still not easy to grasp unless you see it.

thx so far for all informations guys,
it sounds like a really smart system!
but before buying this rig i'd like to see it once or at least see some good pictures :-)
i asked for that at flyyourbody, no answer so far, will post as soon as i get something.

http://vimeo.com/...jump/videos/25738895

http://vimeo.com/16551940

ah interesting! good to know that toggels also if mounted down on cheststraps still can be twisted in. but i guess with a that hard twist you wont be able to use them anyway
thx for sharing!

nice posts kiwi, on skydives i've started getting out of line twists by moving the twists down from the lines, into the risers, because as soon as i can reach above the line twists to the lines spread by the canopy, then i can push off those to untwist myself more quickly than kicking ever would.

the first link showed the post opening rotation into line twists. if your WS that allows it (ok, my tonysuit is nice for this) you should be aggressive and stop those twists before they get that bad. If not, then like Steph did in the second video, get above the twists and steer away from the scary stuff. Then she was set up for what i explained at first. She had a hand on the canopy side of the twists, so she could have more quickly just spun herself in the "untwist" direction, then popped toggles and had a normal landing. (she essentially did this, but it looked like she tried kicking out of it first)

on the snekor, there was a metal free one in Moab that was really nice, sewn legs and some form of a Slink type attachment for the chest strap... i'm curious to learn more about that one actually, it looked light and comfortable (with a Feather canopy in it too)