Basejumper.com - archive

I'm very sorry to report another fatality today from the High Nose


http://www.police.be.ch/...intoedlichverunfallt

http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/wiki/BASE_Fatality_List

Says it is a Russian, COD: unstable, possible no pull.

codoleances to family and friends.

Wrong info, not Russian.

The media says german.

http://www.20min.ch/...erunglueckt-13201797

http://www.blick.ch/...zt-in-den-tod-181988

She was Slowenian.

She was Sloveninan.
I watch that accident as well from the top.
She was stable.
She pulled but to late and hit the ledge with canopy out but without even line stretch.
She was wearing tracking pants.

Name/description on PM,please...

Edit: Nevermind..got it.

Fuck!



Fly free,girl...

First off I will say that I have no idea what kind of experience she had but the description of the accident makes me really sad more than anything else...
If it's indeed true that she pulled late and impacted the talus at the high nose with track pants it can only mean one thing: She did not have the track experience to jump there and this was a totally avoidable fatality! Plain sad!!

Condolences to friends and family.

It's bullshit what you say.

With same "track" on the YO or LM jump will end up in the same place.

She had experience from what i here.
She was jumping Brento many times and week before as well.

People do mistakes and their made own decisions. That's it.

She was not that person "yuuppi i wanna be BASE jumper, lets go to LB" - it's not youtube generation.

So... rethink your idea and maybe you will have better one.

My point exactly… if you track like a bowling bowl LB is not for you… heck if you don’t know how to track base jumping from cliffs is a stunt… You might survive it a couple 100 times by shear luck but it’s only a matter of time until you will need that extra distance to save you ass from a cliff strike or a lot worse . To jump walls somewhat “safely” and “for a long time” decent tracking is mandatory…

Brento and Kerag are the disneyworld of base jumping… great places to hone your tracking skills ect… LB is not one of these places…

I absolutely agree with that… just hate to see people making basic judgement errors and pay the high price for them when it could have been avoided…

Doesn’t really matter what kind of jumper she was… the end result is the same. Base jumping is great and an amazing sport but not worth dying for. To paraphrase what douggs use to say… “you can only have fun when you alive”… so making the right decisions, and objectively evaluate your skills is critical for survival. The description of her accident means only one thing... she could not track well enough to jump there “safely”. Bad decisions can lead to bad results in our sport! I am just sad that the same type of story keeps on repeating itself so many times lately.
It may look like I am taking a pot shot at this jumper but this is not the case… I just would like to see people be a bit more objective about their skills. I would have loved to meet her, have a beer at the horner and party our asses off… I am absolutely convinced she was a wonderfull person like most base jumpers I have had the pleasure to meet over the years…. now that will just never happen.

Again like douggs said: “You can only have fun while you alive…” Just think about that one and you will see that it really sums it all up and makes perfect sense...

But hey this is just an opinion! It’s a free world and the beauty of it is that everyone gets to do as they please…

Again my heart goes out to her friends and family…

HELLvetic,

I try not to become involved in this sort of thing, but your post is out of line. Throwing in a "condolences to friends and family" and quoting Douggs doesn't lend any extra credibility to your baseless, opinionated claims. Your post is arrogant and filled with unsubstantiated assumptions. You attack the ability of the deceased based on a few potentially misunderstood lines written by someone who, unlike you actually saw the incident. You aren't able to substantiate her ability or lack thereof with any factual information. Furthermore, Olek is a world-class jumper in every regard, and I am not alone in highly valuing his observations. If you're not clear on his meaning, maybe you should PM him in Polish.

You appear to be of the class of jumper who likes to believe that because you have certain skills, you are bounce-proof. Nico was very experienced and made sound decisions, Ted Rudd was one of the best trackers I've jumped with, and Mirko was an all around badass; they've all got threads on here too.

"I...just hate to see people making basic judgement [sp] errors..."

How do you know what kind of error she made? You yet again assume that you know what happened on that exit point or during her jump. I don't like seeing people injured or killed either, but you don't have enough information to publicly make such audacious claims, claims which blatantly lay blame for the accident, and claims which you are not qualified to make based on your personal dearth of information regarding this accident. Your posts are irresponsible, inflammatory, and immature. If you have no factual information to contribute to this thread, please refrain from posting on it.

I was on the load. Leave the assumptions and guessing alone. It doesn't help the family and friends. In good time the circumstances will be explained. For what its worth both Olek and I dealt with 2 fatalities in 2 days so we are both fried. Leave the platitudes alone.

its hard to start this when everything came down to her abiliyi to track or not-what is a legit question, expecially in LB. Want to make one point clear. I would never bring noone in LB and to high nose exit if i wasnt sure of her skills. I was following her progress last year, and belive me i know what i say. She was ready for it, she knew how to track, she wasnt bad ass tracker, but better then manny i know that have jumped the high nose and made it. It was obviously one time thing that killed her. We all know, mistakes and sort can get u in grave, but in this case we will never know why she couldnt track as usual. Im sure she fought till last momement when she pitched her pc into the air, but too late. Just to end the story here, she had experience, period. Hope if it happenes one day to me ppl wont start the thing about my experienced. As we all seen also best and expirienced ppl get killed.
If there is something to learn out of her missfortune (and thats the purpose of this forum) then is this. No metter what level of experience we have, we are not bounce proof, we never know when it could hit us, maybe just on the next jump. Its not an activity that u can say ahead it will not happened to me. Ofcourse we dont go to exit with the thought of not make it, we do our best to make it.

In my more then 10 years in BASE i have seen grown man cry (recently my self included), friends get seriously injurys, going in and their close ones in pain.

play it safe. the whole incident report will b posted to base fatallity list once we get her back home.

Stay safe.

Hallo Jupija
We met in Berlin 2 years ago.I hope you are well.Was the girl involved in the fatality in Ampuriabrava 2 years ago?I remember talking about her with you during our evening together in Berlin.Anyway keep me posted.Take big care yourself...Frank

As an experienced bigwalltracker I would like to point out a failure that I made. Not that it is nescessarily pertaining to this incident. This is just food for thought for the invincible.
The low subterminal felt fine in the track at about 3 seconds, I started turning to the left. I corrected it with a right input but then continued going to the right. I corrected with left input and kept going to the left. I could not fly straight out so I pulled. I was zig zagging. WTF? my brain ask me. Must be some weird wind layer was the answer I got from the voices as I was deploying. Andy from Pressurized had jumped just before me. I asked him if he encountered windlayer turbs and he said no, that it was clean air. So I was still in the WTF mode as I dropped my
gear on the packing mat. I reached up to unzip my track jacket and missed the zipper toggle. I hadnt zipped up all the way, only half way. Do you (everybody I mean) include zippers on gear
checks? What about a leg zip? That is even more nasty with inflatables. They will unzip themselves after a certain point in FF if not securely zipped.
A subtermtracker is on the edge of instability. a simple thing like having one's radio pocket unzipped can push you over the edge. Imagine probs like an unzipped trackjacket or a leg zipp undone. This can take you and your mad trackin skillz to the end
easily on a conservative wall. Think about this on a tight wall for breakfast. Ask yourself right freakin now how many zipps ya and then count them. Dont count and say, say and count and you may learn something about your own observation skills.
Take care,
space

Funny you mention this. I had a similar scenario in LB not two weeks ago except it was the fly of my track pants. I had a shit track (more than normal... ) with quite alot of instability in the legs due to the air intermittently spilling out of the crotch, deflating the legs. I noticed after watching the video but it was VERY notable something was wrong on the jump before review of the video.

Hellvetic - we've met and you're a nice guy but you're wrong on so many levels. You've looked at the end Result and worked backwards to reach a conclusion to suit your philosophy, namely "she hit the ledge - therefore she couldn't track - therefore she made bad decisions."

It's quite comforting to think like that - that Only bad stuff happens to unskilled people who make poor decisions. But you know.....deep down, that's a fallacy. Bad shit happens to super skilled people who have made a milion sound decisions.

We don't know why she hit that cliff. We may never know. But with the information at hand there's no way you can safely and respectfully reach the conclusions you have.

Peace

Ian

Good friends had very scary experiences jumping tight exits with various Tony suits where one airlock zipper inside the arm was closed and another left open. One more thing to include in your take-off checklist!

 

re: Alfios

I wish. I haven't seen you in a really long time.

B. (883)

Dude! My wife has your Zippo. But she wont send it. Ya gotta pick it up in person. Miss you also Bro.
Take care,
space

Confirmed. Are you making it for sunset load? We should arrive early afternoon (from MXP).

Yep

 

PM Sent :)

i thought this was an incident thread not a dating thread, MODS please move the daters to another thread in a different link please

Spot on mate.
Take care.
space

Your experience and skill in this case fail big time.
''Knowing'' the jumper you been ''follow'' one time last year.
knowing the number of jumps and object she had in her log book ( or maybe you didn't know?)
Knowing this was her first time there in LB and not suggesting her to skip High nose (originally WS exit at the beginning only ), and strongly advice her with all your authority to start with YO instead.
IMHO this is a big mistake
At least we have in all Slovenian newspaper now very detailed explanation what happened. As a reporter you have nice opportunity now.
damn it

Robi,
With the way she jumped she would die at any exit in LB.
That was low pull.
This kills you everywhere.

what ledge she would hit at YO?
With the poor track she had , she might have a chance.
On HN - is like damn suicide.

Robi,
You always know better and you have to be always on the top of everything.

Do you know where she impact at High Nose??? NO

There is few ledges and she impact last one very close to the tallus.
At YO with this way of jumping she would probably hit tallus because it was low pull.

Blame anyone you want but at the end we all make our own decisions.

please decide what you saw and stick with that Olek.
you told me something like this:...

She did 2 steps exit. Was solid but bit to the left. She correct it the turn.
after, she was just falling in track position.
Almost without moving forward.
Pitch and than hit the bottom ledge.

Jumper ready for High nose on LB?!
Jumper ready for what object?

Sure she pitch to late and hit the talus as this was probably first time she had the ledge so close to her , and was hoping to clear it without knowing she wont, all due lack of experience.

and experience was ITW, Vrsar bridge, building and antena.
Sure that next step is HN in LB.

That's what i saw from the top Robi.

In details she did first step with right leg and second with left leg and than jumped.
I can show you on the exit exactly where if it helps you.

I didn't know her experience.
I don't know if she was ready and this day she had bad one like many other jumpers.

It is said : if one is able to get a 20+ sec delay at ITW and still opening high , one would be better prepared for LB..
How many trackingsuit base jumps did she have?

Is that true for all exits at LB? I don't know, I am asking.

This had nothing to do with performance on ITW.

LB requires
solid exits with good push,
fast start into tracking position,
stable track (meaning one should be able to keep it straight, controlled, regular),
and last but not least a good visual awareness.

LB jumps are low, every jumper should be aware of the ground rush and attempt to pull at reasonable height considering their track and altitude.

I don't mention landing close to roads, not in high grass, call air glacier prior to jump (on EVERY JUMP) and buy your landing card BEFORE your start your trip.

Once you are experienced yes, if not sometimes other (experienced)people have to make this decision for you.

I don't know you, didn't know the girl and was not there. But reading this and things like she had a bad day sounds a little easy to me. If someone who did know her experience would have offered her to go to a better exit her day probably would have been better.

I don't think so but we can have different opinions.

I totally agree with you Ferry.

This thread sadly reminds me of the day my friend Stefan died at HN. It was his second time at LB, and from the beginning he had been jumping HN, though his tracking was not that good most of the times. My tracking had never been good either so HN was absolutely no option for me. On our last jump of the trip, everybody was going to HN so they put pressure upon me to go there too. I was the only one not going but finally I agreed, completely concious that I was doing a wrong thing. I never got to jump HN because Stefan jumped just before me and died.
I remember reproaching my friends about what happened that day. They are more experienced basejumpers and I guess that they could have given some good advise to Stefan about where to jump according to his experience and his skills...aren't friends supposed to care about you?? But it seems that sometimes experienced jumpers are not willing to give this valuable advise to beginners and they keep it to themselves...and this advise definetely could save lives.

I myself was really close to die last April. I had a 180º turn in a 250m cliff, I hit the wall, broke my foot, and surprisingly my canopy got stuck in a small ledge. I remained hunging over the void for 4 hours until they rescued me.
Now I have quit basejumping...life's too beautiful.

Sorry for the long post...I am so sorry about Valentina, it really breaks my heart to see so many deaths of young people.

Intimating that other jumpers may have played a role in her death should be done with great care - perhaps more care than has been taken by some of the people who posted above.

It would be safe to say that no one who has posted in this thread knows exactly what she was thinking or planning during her jump - regardless of what anyone knew of her experience. I was not there and did not know her, but it sounds to me like if she had pulled a little higher it would not have happened and no one would be criticizing those she was with right now.

Olek should not have to defend himself or the deceased jumper here for what happened, that's fucked up. I know Olek and I know that he's more than responsible enough to have redirected her ambitions to another exit point if she was so obviously unprepared.

Hindsight is always 20/20, as we Americans say. Everyone is always an expert on the situation after it happens, and pointing fingers on an internet forum is a waste.

BASE jumpers, new or experienced, need to be able to make their own decisions. It's part of being in the sport. Even as "adult" wingsuit pilots, we need to choose our lines and choose our jumps ourselves - if we follow someone else and then don't make it, it's not someone else's fault for not telling us we might not make it.

Of course, we owe it to our friends to help them as much as possible. But if you weren't there, then judging afterward and from a afar is too easy, and unfair.

Some people reading this thread are here for info, and to help themselves learn. To that end, the lessons here may be: It's track or die for most slider up cliffs, so track well before you go to most cliffs. If you can't track, just don't go to Lauterbrunnen - how many thousands of times has this been said? If you make it to the High Nose without hearing that, then you're just not paying attention and if you're not paying attention, no one can help you.

+ 1,000,000

I'm not defending myself, because there is no need for it.
I'm trying only explain what happen.

And now all "expirence" BASE jumpers trying to tell what happen and they don't know anyone from this load (not Robi), don't know how it was etc.

On the load there was another jumper (expirence one) and when they decide to go to HN (join us) with Uros we describe her what kind of jump it is, because she asked.
How many of you met other jumpers (not knowing them before) in the cable car and just jump together without even asking other person about experience etc.?

She knew where she is going.
I don't know if she did homework (checking info about LB exits) and maybe talk to other Slovenian BASE jumpers.
I didn't know her exact experience.
Met her once in Aprill at Brento this year.

It looks like we all will treat accident in LB as the one made by unskilled people with not enough experience.


She came with other jumpers.
Don't know if other Slovenian jumpers (her friends) knew about her trip and her experience.

And for me it was low pull - of course with many other factors coming together (new exit, new place, 1st jump on the trip etc.) but if she will pull earlier than things will end up in different way.

But i will repeat again - we all make own decisions.

I'm sorry but I don't believe this to be true. I was also there on the load and I was first to exit. I was the closest to the accident and first on the scene. I also watched the whole thing. As I stated in my police report" unstable exit with quick recover into track position but no forward movement. Freefall cliff strike and 2nd strike resulting in canopy deployment". I was also with other eye witnesses that watched this terrible event unfold and there police report was similar to my. From the top it would be difficult to see the first strike.
My thoughs go out to freinds and family.
May she R.I.P.

Where this is not true?
From the top you can see everything.
Just hold the tree with left hand, lean a bit and look down. That's not difficult. Go back, take stone, throw and check it.
What do you mean "unstable exit"???
She exit and she was a bit to the left because she pushed with left leg strong.
Stayed stable belly to earth, not head-down.
Have you seen it from the ground?

We both had different perspective what happen because you was on the ground and i was watching from the top.

But your report is a bit like tourist report but i think it's good enough for public and police.
As a BASE jumper maybe for us describe more what is unstable exit which you have seen, and where the cliff strike happen (after 2 sec., 5 sec., 8 sec.? top, bottom of the cliff?)
About the body under canopy you have seen better probably.
I'm not sure that she hit the cliff second time without canopy out but you have been closer.

Let's make it clear and finish it because i'm sick of it.

Hitting a ledge or positive part of any wall (especially the parts of this particular wall she impacted regardless of weather you made an attempt to pull or not to me does not mean "no/low pull" it means for whatever reason insufficient object separation.

I very much doubt he ability to judge a safe opening altitude was the root cause of her death. Did she have a history of being a "dirty low puller"?

I don't get it... but i don't really care.
I'm happy that i didn't wrote anything about accident day before.

14 jumps, 1 object, 1 year... you should read not write.