Basejumper.com - archive

Hi all, first post and i just wanted to kill the elephant in the room ( well to me anyway)

I have got my first skydives coming up in two weeks and the plan is to become qualified, do 150 jumps soon as possible and make the transition to BASE.

HOWEVER i read on these forums people complaining of people with 150 skydive jumps trying to buy there way into BASE. I was asking on another forum if anyone would be up for teaching me and i would get shot down right away..

It seems that BASE jumpers regard themselves as "elite" and they want to keep it that way with low numbers. but why not be a bit more excited to people with an actual interest because its really starting to piss me off

Either this is a Troll or you are slightly below average on relationship building skills.....

I'm replying to this post since i am a newbie and probably the closest to remembering the mind set you are in. Most of the other replies you are going to get will come from BASE ninjas probably tearing you apart for being a punk...

I was under the same opinion when i first started skydiving. My goal was always to BASE jump, i never even considered being a skydiver. I thought i was ready to BASE Jump very early. I couldn't understand why all these "elitist" BASE Jumpers kept telling me to keep skydiving. The more i read and learned about BASE the more this attitude was pushed to the back of my brain and the less ready i felt about starting to jump. We all think we are special, we all think we are more athletic then the rest of the people, all of our Mommy's told us we were natural athletes growing up and how proud they were of us :)

Guess what, your not special, your not better than everyone else, and this sport gets real scary real quick.

Have you done any Ground Crew yet? If not you should, offer as much help to your local BASE jumpers as possible just to get the chance to watch them jump. Maybe you will find that this really isnt for you, or maybe you will find that GCing just flames the fire inside of you to get to the exit point. Either way most BASE jumpers will require you to have a bunch of skydives first before that take you along to watch, but you might get lucky.

If i was you i would delete this post, then post again introducing yourself, your goals, and your experience. Then ask nicely for someone to let you GC for them.

-Sergio

An exceptional man, skydiver, and BASE jumper
just died jumping from a very forgiving, legal,
span... he had thousands of jumps and
he died. We all liked him.

You, well you start off with insulting OUR
collective requirement that you learn just
a little bit about parachuting and yourself
before we take you with us on an illegal,
dangerous, and sometimes deadly game.

Listen, if it was easy, then everyone who
watches TV would have BASE numbers...
but the truth is it is not easy, the idea is
simple yes, but the execution of it is often
difficult, and in an unforgiving evironment.

We are not elitist, we are experienced, we
have been there, most more than me, but
I atleast respect and understand their hard
won acomplishments... You fail to.

+1.
good post tom.

ENCORE! very well written

 
>>What Tom said. If we don't teach you, we don't have to watch you die doing this. That's why we're not exited even when you have an actual interest

Because everyone with no jumps who pops up here has an 'actual interest'. It's not as if the other wannabies are saying "Hey guys, I'm a bit of a dilettante but I thought this looked kinda fun. Who wants to hold me by the hand and walk me through it until I get bored and wander off?" and so we can instantly tell you're different.

Go away and do the jumps and the research, then come back and see what reception you get. Or ideally, try to make connections in person so you won't need to come back.

I bet you are a big Dale Carnegie fan?

Rinse, and repeat...

Listen, if it was easy, then everyone who
watches TV would have BASE numbers...
but the truth is it is not easy, the idea is
simple yes, but the execution of it is often
difficult, and in an unforgiving evironment.

-1. This is bullshit. It is easy. In fact, everyone who watches it on TV ARE the people with BASE numbers. Having a base number is like sending in for your Wings award to parachutist Magazine for 100 jumps or some shit. In other words, fucking stupid. These are also the same people posting on the Internet every day. Yes, they want you to think they are elite. They are begging for attention. Often they post incessantly to thousands of strangers on the internet, complaining, about base jumpers who seek attention! It's hilarious.
This is what you do; Skydive. Meet base jumpers in the process. Base jumpers love to talk about themselves. Listen. Watch their stupid videos. Ground crew for them. Ground crew for others. Use your common sense to figure out which ones are complete fucking tools and which ones know their shit. Learn from them. Eventually they will want to sell you their old gear and will offer to mentor you. Next, don't go looking for base friends on the Internet.
Good luck. This has been a public service announcement. Moderators, please make it a sticky. :)

well put!

"Having a base number is like sending in for your Wings award to parachutist Magazine for a 100 jumps or some shit. In other words, fucking stupid." Well, No! It's kind of a personal thing that has been lost with the newbies that have come to the sport in the last 5 or perhaps 10 yrs. Carl Boenish who created the BASE # criteria didn't have such an inflated ego that he designated himself #1. As I said, it's kinda personal, and if you'd been around skydiving and BASE for any amount of time you would have more respect for the part numbers play in both sports. I have noticed that the people who seem to have the biggest problem with numbers are the people who have very little respect for the pioneers of these sports,( and also not so much experience) and have very little understanding of the sacrifices that people made along the way to develop sports that you now enjoy, and perhaps even use to inflate your own fragile sense of self. I know a pioneer in BASE that finally took a really high BASE # and said" I did it out of respect for Carl" and how about Patrick de Gayardon? how many of you recognise the father of modern WS technology? Don't get a #! ....that's your personal choice...but don't dis the pioneers, and the tradition that made it possible for you to enjoy BASE,..I doubt that you would be enjoying BASE without these people!!!!

+1 for brendan as well.

Slapping inconsiderate bitches in the face with knowledge. I love it.
Also, this thread should be titled, "Mad student skydiver who wishes to become a basejumper because he is too cool and skilled to be bothered with learning how to skydive first"

Fucking queers.

Additionally, we ARE elite.
We fucking earned it.

I was essentially self taught by reading old BASEline magazines. So those who want to learn, go do it. Yes BASE jumping can be easy, unless things go wrong.

"everybody has a plan till they get punched in the mouth. --tyson

Probably one of the better green posts I've seen.

To the original poster...never mind...

Deleted because I was being an asshole.

Apologies all around.

Guess you don't have your building jump do you?

how many of your other friends can identify an occupied, jumpable, building, gain access to the roof, correctly asses conditions, properly configure their system for said conditions and the jump off the roof, freefall 15 stories, deploy, fly and land said parachute system into who knows what kind of garbage lz, just for the fucking fun of it?


Just because we dont think we are elite, or act like egomaniacs, doesnt mean were not.

Keep you chin up. Cherish those you have. Make every moment count. Cya

Hell yeah. Good post!

There are two of your problems.

Lots of people would like to skydive, BASE jump, etc. but can't or won't. Half the people in my first skydiving jump course didn't make it through AFF and apart from me the rest didn't stick around long enough to be thinking about BASE. With those long odds almost no one not being paid will invest time and effort indulging your BASE jumping dreams that statistically speaking aren't going to pan out. With some evidence you're going to stick around (you actually make a few hundred skydives, hang around the drop zone for a few years, buy your first BASE rig) you'll find people more receptive as long as they don't think you're going to kill yourself with bad judgement (when people die it sucks less when they're not your friends).

While there are people who'll take your money and teach you BASE jumping at 150-200 jumps there's nothing magical about those numbers which bestow the skills and judgement that make your chances of BASE jumping without death or significant injury reasonable.

There are at least four things you need to start BASE jumping with below average injury risk:

1. Parachute skills that are about preventing object strikes and landing you safely away from obstacles. Flat turns, flying backwards in a stall, landing accuracy, landing down-wind/cross-wind, landing up-hill/down-hill, deep brake approaches, flying and landing on rear risers only. You need to do these things instinctively. You need to do these things under a BASE canopy. This could take less than 150 jumps with appropriate focus, but many if not most skydivers only learn enough to deal with ideal sunny-day conditions.

2. Basic rigging skills and some intuitive sense on how the gear works. You need to be able to inspect your gear (things like a worn 3-ring loop that lets go will really suck without a reserve, less bad things like incorrectly stowed brakes lead to potential problems like flying and landing on rear risers where you're more likely to over control and have a hard landing from a low stall) and pack consistently since that influences heading control that keeps you away from objects. This should take less than 150 jumps with appropriate focus, but most skydivers ignore it.

3. Mental state. You can't be overwhelmed just because you're jumping with a parachute. When bad things happen you need to remain at a low enough stimulation level to deal with them. I don't see this happen a lot with less than a few hundred jumps. One guy I started BASE jumping with couldn't even count to three which isn't a good thing when you'd like to open below bridges where off-heading openings don't matter. You need to have had somewhat bad things happen and have dealt with them successfully. If that's been happening enough before you get to 500 skydives you probably have bad judgement and shouldn't be BASE jumping.

4. Judgment. There are times when it's inappropriate to jump (winds that are turbulent or blowing towards an object). There are objects which aren't the best idea (I won't jump anything that doesn't leave be enough room to turn around and get to a safe landing area from an off-heading opening). There are things beyond your current skill level. People learn judgment through experience; although with parachuting sports experience often involves trips to the orthopedic surgeon so you want to learn from second hand experience. You need to participate in parachute sports long enough for that to happen. You need enough time to realize how much you don't know. I don't think I've ever seen a guy (with less testosterone women do better) learn this in just 200 jumps and think 3 years + 500 jumps as an active skydiver is a better starting point.

Just putting in your 150 jumps before moving on to BASE jumping isn't going to get you there and without the skills you'll have a harder time finding people you're not paying to support you.

I had 800 or 900 skydives when I started BASE, didn't really know how much I didn't know before that, would not have survived as long if I'd started much sooner, and wouldn't have had hairy tree/boulder landings if I'd gotten into classic accuracy before starting. All the people who really stand out in my mind as 'that guy' with object strikes that happened jumping in marginal winds or were scary to watch kicking their legs like little girls were close to the recommended 200 jump minimum.


Take up classic accuracy and consistently dead center the pea gravel or your packing mat, earn a FAA senior rigger's ticket, don't do anything to make people think you're a dead guy in training, and provided you don't have social defects you won't have many problems.

Do nothing to differentiate yourself from all the other people who drop out of skydiving, show evidence of being a dead guy in training, and you're not going to get much positive attention or free help unless you're a girl in which case the special treatment may not be good for your health.

That's a great reply.

+1

I think the BASE number is a great thing and I think it is a way to appreciate the past, present and future of the sport. Proud to say I am BASE 921 and I am proud to say I found, assessed and jumped my first building solo. this was my qualifying jump for BASE and I think it was the perfect way to do it. My first true solo and my first opening of an object (to my knowledge). I earned it and I felt pretty damn elite that night. There are BASE jumpers that can't say the same for themselves, let alone the rest of the population.

I'm not being sarcastic here, but what exactly do you expect of the BASE community and what do you offer in return?

Walt

from my perspective, only have 2 base jumps and 150 skydives. I started way too early! Thankfully I had a good mentor behind me...but looking back I realized that I didnt have the skills to correctly handle if shit went down bad.

Luckily my two jumps went perfectly great heading and easy landing.

I stopped pursuing base jumping and now have refocused on skydiving canopy control and just having fun. I will go off some cliff terminal someday but it will be RIGHT when I do it.

You have to be honest with yourself as an upcoming base jumper....be brutally honest. dont convince yourself of ANYTHING! Its not worth it when you could wait and practice and do it RIGHT someday.

Even right there is good risk there on the building



ps I dont post here much because I mainly like reading posts...but I felt the comraderie to your post and had to give you my perspective.

Don't get emotional or pissed off. If you want to BASE jump, you are going to have more important things to worry about. No one is out to get you. Think about the situation from the experienced jumpers' point of view. You're looking at a self regulated non-commercial community of people who are doing something dangerous and are sick of watching their friends die in front of them.

This is a sport where, all too often, even the most experienced jumper can make the smallest mistake that ends up being the difference between life and death. When you get negative feedback about wanting to get into BASE, it's probably because whoever you're talking to hasn't been convinced of your skill levels in the key areas that apply to BASE jumping.

If you're serious about BASE, dress to impress. Focus on the skills that everyone repeatedly mentions and prove that those skills are built to a high level. If people are discouraging you, wow them by demonstrating exceptional skill in all relevant areas. Show that you're serious. Hit the center of the peas every single time in all wind conditions. Pack your canopy consistently every single time. Take a canopy course. Learn to make your canopy do anything you want it to with toggles or risers. Perfect your exits out of balloons.

You can build most of the skills you need without actually BASE jumping. Once you have honed all of those skills and taken a first jump course, actually jumping off a bridge should just be a formality; an opportunity to bring all those skills together at once.

Now, once you have built these skills and done everything possible to prepare, that does not mean that BASE jumping will be safe. It just means that it will be safer. You have removed a few of the variables that could contribute to your death. It is every jumper's responsability to do everything in their power to make our sport safer. Even so, you still have to accept the black death factor. You can do everything right and still get seriously injured or killed. That is the unforgiving reality of BASE jumping. Make sure you fully understand and accept the implications of that before BASE jumping.


I hope my post makes it a little more clear why BASE jumpers are so adament about beginners having the necessary skill set before getting into BASE. We don't like seeing our friends die. There is no reason to add additional risk by jumping before you have built all the necessary skills when it is already so dangerous even for the skilled and experienced. It sucks to get hurt or killed because of something stupid. My first balloon jump was more fun than my first BASE jump by the way ;)

Take care and be safe.
-Forrest

I was in the same boat and I didn't understand it either till recently. I didn't have many skydives and was asking for help. I either got no response or a demeaning one telling me to check back in a couple years when I have more experience.

I'm a new jumper and for the last 5 jumps in a popular canyon some hiker stops me and says they've always wanted to get into it and want to know what steps to take. I told the first person to skydive first. The second guy I told to get 200 skydives. After that I tell people that it's really a dumb sport and its a waste of time and money.

I've only been asked by 5 people how to get into base jumping and it was already getting old because I know those people will never get into BASE. And statistically speaking you're probably just talking and will never get into it either. I hope I'm wrong.

Like what was said above, shut everyone up by doing and not saying.

good luck!

wow, i didnt know this was a forum for dumbshits,


WATCH THIS SPACE ill check back in a year and ill show all you retards what a bit motivation will get you.

An A license in skydiving

Thats the spirit! You go girl.

I like talking about doing cool stuff too.



You seem like a really emotional dude (or girl?). Don't get all butt hurt so easily from some nameless and faceless people on the internet.

I bet you 500$ that you become just another too fast too soon statistic.

five. hundred. dollars.

man up, pussy.

+1

Rushing into this sport is for short sighted people who don't want to grow old

"I didn't know this was a forum for dumbshits"

Yes, and you are contributing greatly! Normally I wouldn't bother but you are such a whiny bitch. Hope I never meet you...

Rock on dude. if you have your own gear i could chuck you offfa a 400ftr span. injuries included as par for.....I am not joking.
Put up or shut up. ELlite, nah, your jump willl not acheive it. it may get you laid. very heavy price to pay.
pm me if you are an assshole. I will deliver.
game on.
take care,
space
i expect no response from you. we all do drunk posts. no worries.

i'll mark my calendar. this should be interesting.

Please do post in a year. Whether you have BASE jumped are back to tell us what morons we are, or you have not jumped but have the balls to say so and say why, you'll have my respect either way.

Walt

And goodluck, sir.

He'll probably jump more than you have in his first year. Lol

oh, man...sorry, but you don't know what are you talking about..You haven't done yet not a single skydiving jump- that is scary enough for a first timer..How could you possibly be so sure about your base jumping evolution?

Base jumping is WAY more difficult/dangerous than shown in the youtube videos..

I love the people who see you as a skydiver, and think they are immediately ready, and word for word say "just give me a parachute, ill be ok" people dont realize, just falling stable is a challenge at first, falling isn a natural feeling. Manipulating your body to do what you want it to in the air takes time... and alot of it, i work in a wind tunnel, you see some funny shit in there.

haha, stranger things have happened, but trolls tend to live under the bridge as opposed to jumping off of them.

how many jumps do you have?

Almost as many as you... In the last two weeks.

nice. i admit to being somewhat conservative. : )

Somewhat?

Dude, that is a nasty post. I hope you delete it.
Take care.
space

 

I admitted my faults and am living with the consiquences shut the fuck up. With all do respect.

I did say with all do respect, meaning i can say whatevr i want, its in the geneva convention...

We'll stick this knife in to
pry out the other knife.

Let me let the elephant out of the room. I will be visiting the climbing gym in a couple weeks for my first climb. I'm interested in free solo climbing Trango towers sometime next year. Any advice?

Awww, dude, yer crampin my style, I'm taking my first climbing lesson next week and I'm gonna beat you to it, well, can't afford a trip to the "Big One", so I thought something closer to home, maybe the nose on the Captain?, but free solo definitely, it just seems way coooler than that rope stuff, and how hard could it be? Hey Rauk, good post on numbers, speaking of which Drew, who couldn't count to 3, not Spooky? the thing that worried me about you at the time was you always seemed so dependent on two canopies to survive your skydives. Where were you 10 years ago today? I was huckin Tombie with another dude from Drew's first BASE course, not sure if Jay learned to count either!!!! Hee Hee hee.

FOR THE WIN!

Green Machine, Green Machine, Green Machine, Green Machine!!!!!!!

~TAylor

Disagree. More jumps equals more current which in my opinion makes this sport safer. People who jump here and there tend to make mistakes or are at least more likely to (trust me, I have had my phases of jumping here and there). If you practice something every day, you are much less likely to fail.

 

No, I see the logic. i just feel that at the same time a person who makes 300 BASE jumps a year will be much more equipped for the 'shit happens' occurrences.

indeed, i concede

I don't completely agree. I think it's a mixture of time in the sport and number of jumps. A huge number number of jumps in a short time increases currency and confidence. Time in the sport creates wisdom. Confidence without wisdom is a recipe for problems. And vice versa. And confidence and wisdom without currency also creates problems. So it's one of those - just right sort of mixtures that seems to result IMHO the safest possible result.

Agreed.

I learned to count!!! Numbers + experience= old guys that get away with murder(that's you!). Jimmy, Marta, Wayne and I went to a sweet presentation last week at Neptunes. Me and Jimmy got Layton Kor to autograph our t-shirts.. We got to talking, and mentioned that we had jumped a number of his routes .....he said"I heard there was a bunch of crazy people running around jumping off cliffs with parachutes! I want you guy's autographs....." . Pretty funny.
Anyhow...... see you next week.

Ohhhh man, Jay! That is just too cool. That kinda thing rarely happens to me, how 'come you always get the good shit!?

I am thankful and ever in the business sending gratitude up to the great mystery for the teachers I had to learn from. The elders, (regardless of age), taught me well by examples both good and bad. The elders include those on the list that we all should know intimately. They are also just other jumpers that have more experience. These people are looking out for you. They want to help you avoid the mistakes we know by other jumper's names.

I feel lucky for my elders:
- A particularly giving couple who were incredibly positive, gung hoe and supporting. You guys helped me know what it is like to be a part of the BASE family and you are always helping keep the new/young birds alive so that there are more smiles than tears.
- A particularly stealthy jumper for demonstrating to me first hand the feats an experienced canopy pilot can perform in the harshest of base environments... I'll never forget that and would love the video for my personal chubs if you have it PM.
- A bunch of other ones that showed me the ropes and probably want to remain anonymous - but I'll take the memories to my grave with deep gratitude for the times we shared, especially the relatively high profile jumps that should only be recounted with the proper level of sarcasm so as to create distrust in the teller of that story so it remains a mystery if we ever really jumped that stuff or not.

We're not all elitist assholes, but we care about our sport and our family and our image and impact ().

Oh. By the way you old friends (you all know who you are)... I'm back! I'm somewhat current and have off weekends and Tuesdays.

NO way!!! Lets get it on..... I got a couple months off..... not by choice...but thats another story.... and I fly out tomorrow to go play with Brendan for 10 says. I'll be back the 6th, and pretty horny . We were talking about an after bridge day trip somewhere.... maybe northwest for an early thanksgiving treat :) .
Be well,
Jay

Y'all have good base vibes. It's fun, ain't it?

 It's amazing how many people are in such a hurry, that they forget to smell the roses . We work so hard in life to just get bye, when we have the opportunity to play with gravity , it's so key to enjoy not just the sick flight you just had, but the entire journey and the closeness you share with people you spend unique times with.
I guess what I'm trying to say is.....time to play .)

+1

Great reminder! +1

i agree with this, the past few base jumos i had made previous to my accident were weith new people to me for base loads, and the jumps i make with my friends, hold alot more long term value than those shared with random base jumpers.

eventually those random jumpers become best friends ;)

I am new here and here for only one reason to learn. It is exactly this type of attitude that that piss people off.This leads to experienced guys saying fuck the newbies which is unfair to to the guys who has the skydives and the interest.

How can anyone even contemplate BASE if you have never even skydived.

Just a newbie 2c worth.

base jumping friends willing to throw you off the bridge. thats how

Because of things like this?
http://youtu.be/_hJg9y-HOBQ
http://youtu.be/MHwf7YEX4YA
http://youtu.be/LOBluSWbZo0
http://youtu.be/ppn6HA9Ylmg

Popcorn?

Nice very nice.Hopefull me wants VISA to visit Sweden next year if only to visit and if you don't like me please feel free to push me off a cliff.

oh man, i wish i took the National Geographic FJC! I wounder how much that costs?

I think we should just be hubble,and keep the faith,your in there world,They are a hostile bunch,but its the nature of this beast,This is a death wish sport and its ilegal in my country,I can see why the people that do it are so protective of it.I think it takes a certain type of person to do the jump,and they dont tolerate rushing.

really like your post,very helpful and honest

"This is a death wish sport".........

Really? Why then is a life saving device worn on every jump? You dumb shit...

"Really? Why then is a life saving device worn on every jump? You dumb shit... "

+1

It's a life wish sport.

Lack of real commitment.

Walt

Ok worded wrong...but its a close to death thing thats what makes you feel alive

Haha, I like the way you think!

Notice you've been quiet...Did you finally give up like the others or are you actually working toward your goal? We know you haven't been fighting.

Very true.

Totally envious! He's one cool cat with some great tales.

jon