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what do you think the lowest safe height would be to do a roll over off a bridge with a 100% water landing. Water is minimum 10-15' deep?
Bridge is about 120'.
Note: I am not jumping it, but I have been helping PCA a jumper a few times, and now he is thinking roll over.
I am just not seeing it, chute drapped, jump, line streatch, and cute open before hitting ?
what altitude do you all think this takes?
thanks

I would most definitely do a TARD before a I do a rollover at that altitude

sounds like you are Jerry's GC :)

Rollovers usually open noticeably lower than a PCA or static line. If you are unsure, the best thing to do is test it on something higher and see what happens. Outside video is really helpful as well.

Rollovers usually open noticeably lower than a PCA or static line

Really? You have done the tests with video?

I have done each type of deployment many
times and would have ranked them as such:
1. Smart-Tard
2. Rollover
3. Static-Line
4. PCA

1. The canopy is out, prepped, and released
6 feet above your feet when you exit the B.

2. The canopy is out, open, just need air.
You fall twice the length of your lines or
on a Troll-285 maybe 40 feet.

3. & 4. you have some length of bridle plus
the length of the lines plus some extra time
for the canopy to extract, unpack and inflate.


In this case the novice is doing a 120' span
into deep water so not having the bridle and
PC might help out with getting the gear out
of the water after the jump... Good Luck.

We have done PCA jumps from 70 feet into water 10' deep without promblems. One of the jumpers did the jump afterwards without a canopy
It was of an E and not a S so the PCA was the better option than roll over or tard.

Can you please demonstrate this for example by executing a roll over from 50-60 feet (for your well being please choose a span over deep water)? By your math on this manouver with your majikal Troll285 you should still have 10-20 feet of height over water with inflated canopy and should be able to make nice feet first entry to water. Hell, with 20 feet to spare (60ft object) you should even be able to pop the toggles and get some flare so you could even pull this off from a nice span over soft grass. Now that would be an impressive video.

So the consensus is that PCA beats a Rollover.
Okay, maybe, hell since you guys have more
experience I'd be fine with 'probably'.

But what I do not see is how a PCA can come
close to beating a well executed Smart-Tard!

Your canopy is released sooner and higher
or does the second jumper's magic help it?

FWIW - I have done a Smart-TARD off of
a 180 foot building and had plenty of time
to fly a landing pattern and flare.

This is definitely my experience also. Roll Overs will open lower than a PCA. Not by much but still lower.


I would agree with you here. In my experiences the RETARD beats all on opening altitude.

A well performed PCA / SL opening is definitely faster than a rollover.

What you forget in your rollover equation is that when you jump off, the canopy is not nailed in place, it falls as well (just slower than you because it has more surface)


Can anyone explain to me what a "Smart-Tard" exactly is?

ps. edit to remove green color...

I'm pretty new, so this may be retarded, but this is what I have noticed. When I do a S/L I notice I'm still falling while waiting for the inflated canopy to pressurize. When I do a McConkey it feels pressurized instantly and I am flying as soon as I complete the flip.
Plus, Rollovers are (at least should be) always on heading.
$0.02

In your mind pack, start packing yourself a
nice, clean, slider-OFF pack job with all the
good things like: tailgate, a primary stow,
and lines in the tailpocket then instead of
putting it into the container you hold it.

This differs from a regular TARD in that you
flake the canopy and use the other things
to prevent lineovers, hassles carrying it to
the exit point, and the scary hand full of
spaghetti you get when you don't use the
tailpocket for the lines.

To execute the Smart-TARD you gently swing
the pack job from hanging down at your waist
to over you head in a few slow, smooth, ever
increasing arcs.

You exit in a pin drop, straight down when
you have the packjob up to your head and
drop right underneath it for a quick canopy.

so what I am sensing is that if a SL gives 2-3 seconds of open canopy prior to impact, a rollover likely is likely something I should discourage him into trying?
if you know who I'm talking about, he has said object and jump on that U thing.

You may have "a lot" but not enough to accurately respond to the post. I can tell you that you will be open lower with a rollover.

You are always quick to let everyone know you are an educator so this should be easy. Think about the basic physics for a minute. On a rollover, the moment you step off, your canopy starts falling with you. Your body now has to catch this falling canopy and fall the entire length of the lines past it before hitting linestretch and before inflation will occur. If you are still with me on this, you should also be aware that a body in freefall will accelerate until something stops it. If it falls farther before inflation you will be moving faster so the canopy will take longer to slow the additional speed.

A properly executed PCA or static line will have a canopy in the air at linestretch 3-9' below the exit and your body will be falling at half the speed.

And you are right, TARDs will open fastest. I don't think anyone was arguing that point but thanks for bringing it up.

does a static line really require less freefall to be open than a PCA? Seems like the difference is negligible?... -question, not a statement

The difference is negligible and determining which way to go is dependent on the object. It can be open a couple of feet higher or lower depending on SL attachment point and where SL is attached to bridle.

Assuming your PCA'er doesn't drop you, a PCA is variable as well depending on where and how bridle is held.

There are multiple factors influencing opening altitude so be wary when getting info on this website, especially when it is written in green.

I think from 120' you will prob be fine if you nail the roll over and jump in good conditions. However, I have noticed from watching people at the perrine that if the jumper botches the exit or if the winds distort the canopy, bigger factor, the jumper can be open much lower. One of my friends did a two way with another guy at the perrine and his canopy was getting pushed around by the wind. He ended up opening on almost the same level as the guy who was freefalling stowed. My advise would be to sl or pca it first and if that seems to open high, then try a rollover only after practicing the exit from higher and only in dead winds.

If Matt F 001 gives any advise that is contrary to mine, please take his advise. He is is far more experienced and skilled than I.

You explained the 'why' well, thank you.

I mentioned the other kind of unpacked jump
because like you said, it opens the fastest.

what opening shouldn't?

IMO rollovers offer the LEAST dependable heading performance.

To add to Frohlics points, strip is a concern as well, a good PCA'r can avoid this, SL not so much, in equal conditions, a good PCA'r can always deploy someone higher in my experience and opinion than a SL will. Just a thought....which belongs in a skiff...