Basejumper.com - archive

well during my rainy days i was researching and fixing the fatality statistics page..

I came across this guy and believe he should be on the fatality list as he was using a jetski to go over the niagra falls then deploy a parachute , this tells me he exited from an earth...

please read and tell me

Robert Overacker | October 1st 1999|Horseshoe Falls at 12:35 p.m. |

Niagara Falls Daredevils: a history click here for page
http://www.niagarafrontier.com/devil_frame.html

scroll down to 1995 and you will see the picture..

if so then the BFL will have one more to add making it 172 deaths and he would be number 33 on the list..

Any thoughts

Yes

or No

and give me an explanation

Thanks

I am pretty sure Nick had this in the related deaths portion of the list when he was still doing it.

Yes he did!! But no one has ever really thought this was base related ...and if he had a parachute and intended to use it off a object , Is that not a base jump?

If he was exiting the earth with a rig on his back and intention to use it, that sounds like a BASE jump to me.

a ballistic parachute?

it's getting into a gray area. compare a hypothetical unpacked fatality. say a tard gone wrong. how would that differ from a speed fly or paraglide accident? would all 3 make the list, none, or only 1?

Well the ballistic part is the opening but it was a skydiving parachute, not a paraglider or a speed wing... and back in the 90's skydiving rigs/canopies were used on base jumps back then !!!!

If you are jumping a speedwing tard or whatever and you die that would be a speedwing accident..

If you are jumping a paraglider and fuck up and die you would die doing a paragliding accident.

If you use a skydiving canopy or base canopy and jump from an object packed with intent of deployment to save your ass this is regarded as a base fatality because you are jumping from one of the four objects that people get a base number from..

Can you advise me on the other ones that are in the grey area because i am trying to research as much , but its hard when no one wants to talk...

Thanks for any advice by the way

That is a base jump.
He should be on the list.
As for the object, I would log it as an "other".

People fall off cliffs with a rig on their back with the intention of using it, however they were not listed. If I climb an A with a rig on my back then jump, and go in, then that is a list worthy occasion. My intentions were to make a BASE jump. This guy's intentions were to jet ski off Niagra Falls. I say no.

How would a Mcconkey's Retarded gone wrong not be a BASE fatality? Its a jump off a fixed object using base or skydive gear. Its simple.

in the purest sense, and going back to Carl's creation moment... if it can't be classified as a B, A, S, or E, then it really is NOT a BASE jump.

some argue that unpacked jumps are NOT BASE jumps. they will contend that a jumper must deploy the parachute as opposed to speedfly or paraglide pilots. it's technique rather than equipment that matters.

is a ballistic deployment method really a BASE jump?

Nick's intent (as I understand it) was to honor fallen friends and learn from their mistakes. as far as I can tell, the ballistic parachute guy fits neither description.

you may have a different goal/intent/objective.

being BASE (or BASEO for some), you get to decide.

His intentions were to use the parachute, which he did according to the story:

"His plan was that the rocket would quickly deploy the parachute allowing him to safely land in to river below the Horseshoe Falls where he could be rescued. Overacker did ignite the rocket which deployed the parachute as planned."

ps...
there were also deaths pre-Carl. Nick has done wonderful research on those as well. they never made the List either.

if you wish to expand the list, fatality #1 could end up being in DaVinci's time!

whoever keeps the List gets to make the call.

What about the little boy in Chicago(I think) that jumped off his appartment building with a home made parachute? His intentions were to jump and land safely with a parachute.

My 2 cents... I think davinci time is going too far. Although the thought of people that long ago pushing gravitational limits is awesome. I feel the BFL should consist of people who are attempting to hurl themselves off which ever "fixed object" covered under B.A.S.E. or not, with intentions of landing under a actual skydive or base canopy. And to start picking it apart and trying to manipulate the situation for entertainment or the sake of arguement is stupid. As well, an unpacked jump off of a fixed object is still listable... In my opinion. Say John Doe goes in off the tater bridge, who has been jumping packed all day, and decides to do a roll over, some random gust pushes the canopy out in front of him as he jumps off and he gift wraps himself all the way down... He is a base jumper. He was base jumping. He deserves to be on the list.

+1

What he said.

Real parachute deaths
from fixed objects,
post 1978

Well, here we have a grey area, if you consider BASE jumping to be fixed object jumping, he exited from a moving vehicle, and using water which was also moving? However, many BASE jumps have been done from vehicles in motion, using a means of propulsion such as any vehicle with an engine is in my mind different from using gravity and skis, for example( or a bicycle...Sporto). I had heard about this incident previousley and hadn't thought of it as a BASE jump. In my mind the guy wasn't a BASE jumper, do we consider Evil Knieval's use of a parachute as a life saving measure a BASE jump? I believe it falls under the category of a stunt and not intentionally a BASE jump, so it doesn't belong on the BASE fatality list.

I can agree that stunts aren't base jumps. And that this doesn't need to be on the list...

So its 16 for and 3 against..

thanks for the discussion..

i will leave it for a week and see what everyone is thinking about ..


If any of you would like a fellow base jumper that has passed on in the gone but not forgotten list then click on the signature below and write a PM on that site..



Thanks

Almost the same discussion is in this thread http://www.basejumper.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25; from 2005.
Both jumpers have been on the list for a short time in a seperate section of related fatalities.
In my opinion they are not really BASE fatalities.
If we have to discuss it, its not really a base fatality. But of course somehow related.
Otherwise you have to add Jürgen Ornburger? and the czech jumper who fell on the way to a jump as well.
And the jumper who died from exhaustion after a jump from the perrine bridge.
I'm sure there are more.
Maybe we should stop the giving numbers to fatalities anyway.
The list yes, but without numbers.
With the huge grow in the sport we have in the last few years the numbers will go through the roof soon.
Just an example: from April 1994 to Jul 2008 we had 14 Fatalities in 14 years in the Lauterbrunnen Valley.
This number doubled to 28 in the last 3 years...

Why would you have to add jumpers that died on their way to a jump, or from the elements after the jump? They didnt die jumping!

Exhaustion, at the perrine? It's a 20 minute hike... I would like to know more on this... Can someone post the link? And no disrespect intended, but if the perrine can exhaust you to the point of death, I'd say B.A.S.E probably isn't for you.

Do you think it would change a heap if base jumpers had to hike to the exits in lauters and the cable cars stopped jumpers getting on, hhehehe unfit jumpers naaww never heard such a thing hahahah

With this logic you have to remove for example this one from the list:

#5 Michael Williams - 1983 Oct 01
Object: Span
Location: UNITED STATES, WEST VIRGINIA, NRG
COD: Drowning
Description:
This is the first Bridge Day fatality. Michael had a slow main opening and deployed his reserve too quickly. With two canopies out he landed in the river and signaled he is all right. He made no attempt to get out of his gear and his reserve canopy caught the swift current and pulled him under the surface.

Where does a jump start and end?
Some say from exit to landing, some say from when you leave home til you are safely back....

http://www.basejumper.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

"discussions" like these frequently resemble passionate people defending their beliefs. consensus seems impossible (which makes some form of governing body every developing laughable).

labels and categorizations really don't matter. do as you please. sorting things out seems to matter most to those trying to develop a hierarchy or pecking order. the people who either have a burning desire to be right, or a fear of being wrong.

more importantly (to me), enjoy what you do and act responsibly. call it what you will.

+1

fatalities would go way down, but so would available Francs to the farmers, it's an extreme solution to the carnage but if it was the only way to keep the valley open for the people who respect and appreciate what we have I'd be all for it. The thing is to get everyone thinking about how we can insure that the selfish and thoughtless among us don't ruin it for those that really care, (and I think that's the majority of jumpers). The people that don't show respect for the locals, don't pay the use charge, etc should be outed in the forums and ostracised by the BASE community.

Robert Overacker died due to a rigging error on a jet ski base jump. His jump occurred off of Niagra Falls, a cliff with a waterfall. Earth category. Same as Angel Falls or any other commonly jumped waterfall.

That is a bummer that the error occurred. Seems like the idea should be revisited.

I agree, jetski base sounds sick.

Parachute +earth + man make a basejump. This guy died basejumping
even if he doesnt know. My opinion.

that kid made a base jump, I insist. he had every intention to jump a building with a home-made canopy, albeit a poorly made one, that resulted in his death by terra firma...

BASE jumping is jumping off of fixed objects with parachutes. Garbage bags, hang gliders, umbrellas, none of that stuff counts, so the kid did not make a base jump because he did not use anything that could even loosely be qualified as a parachute

here is a different scenario...

BASE jumper performs a rollover at his favorite cliff.
things go bad, he earns a spot on the List.

BASE jumper poorly launches a speedwing off the same cliff. things go bad. does he make the List?

if he gets added to the List, do we include ALL speedwing fatalities?

I doubt as a group, we will ever reach consensus. heck, we can't all agree on how to classify objects, why expect agreement on how to classify fatalities?

who gives a shit about a list?

+1

i know real BASE jumpers. some alive, some dead. i can live with that list. i'm reminded every time i look through my phone list.

IMO, i agree with this being a BASE fatality, but upon observing all the posts, it's almost as if there needs to be a segregation within the BFL. One list specifically for Jumper X who goes in between the exit and landing, and a separate list for Jumper Y who goes in during a BASE or parachute Related incident (excluding skyfalling of course).

I'm also excited about jet ski base. Not as excited as I am about Gee and Nico in a hot tub full of melted butter, but pretty close.

good reply. you changed my opinion regarding the matter.