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i jump an OSP 245 loaded at .78, so its more towards the heavily loaded side than lighter and quite responsive.

i have been working on sinking lately, and i have been noticing that i am getting better at landing with very little forward speed, however i seem to be slamming down on the ground enough to put me into a PLF just about every time. doesnt seem like flaring any higher is gonna make it softer, or will it? i dont want to stall out 15 feet off the ground, and if i do ill ride that bitch backwards right onto my back if need be.

so my question for those who are good at sinking their canopies down in tight landing areas is this: is it normally a nice, soft, tiptoe landing for you, or is it usually a shocker?

im glad im learning how to do this as it will definitely save my ass one day from flying straight forward into something thats gonna fuck me up.
cheers
chris

How are you flying it once you open? You in full flight? or 1/2 breaks?

Flaring higher than 15 feet? @ 15 feet are you in full flight or still in brakes?

How high are you really when you initiate full flare? 10 feet? or 4-5?

On lower jumps with technical landings I find flying in full flight (zero brakes) is your enemy.

Flat turns, controlled and deliberate movements.

ive been flying in 1/2 or MORE breaks during my flights, initiating good flat turns. it seems that when im about 20 feet off the ground, i go down to about 3/4 or deeper brakes, then i stretch my toggles down to as far as they go about 5+ feet off the ground. i wonder if full flaring a few feet higher might help?

yes, the OSP is designed for brake flight, and i almost fucked myself up BAD at a sketchy bridge cause i hook turned into a rocky landing area in full flight. i now ALWAYS fly in breaks unless im somewhere like the perrine...........

I am away from home and my Mac
is a little fuct at the moment but
I wish I could show you footage
of Jon and I sticking a very small
piece of Non-planted LZ next to
tall trees and sticky crops, X4.

Your question about when to flair
reminds me of teaching ground
school... it really depends on your
own weight, winds & brake setting.

Good luck bro

I often use deep brakes up till about 20ish feet off the ground. Then I gradually let the brakes up until about time to flare, resulting in plenty of lift for a nice soft landing, unless I fuck up the timing.

Yeah, no canopy is going to give you a good flare out of deep breaks. It is still a very good skill to know, however. If it is a tight landing or you are overshooting, sinking it and taking the whack may be the preferable choice.

Man, I got some road rash over this one. PLF'ing on concrete will put some gobies on yer face. Same with railroad tracks...

It is all part of basic canopy control. Basic skydiving is so good at teaching you this.

Also, a big PC will slow you down and give you less of a flare than a smaller one.

Tippy toes buddy! From 20ft or less, 60% of the time it works every time.

london gentleman or blackbeards delight?

Sex Panther!

Yes, flare higher. What works best for me when flaring from 3/4, is really punch it between 10-15 ft. The break setting must be tuned to avoid an abrupt stall. Landing depends on conditions, canopy, wl etc. I consistently stand it up with a step or 2...Rolling is the 1st option, stand if it is easy.

good landings...

Whats wrong with PLF'n?

How high you flare, how fast you flare, and how far you flare (if high) are all important.

Some skydiving with a pea gravel pit helps to get it right comfortably.


Soft.

its not too easy to stall my OSP to be honest. so im gonna try to just rip the toggles down a bit higher then................should be goin out for a quickie or 4 this weekend. i appreciate everyones advice

That series of photos is very impressive
Is it a FOX and what is the wing loading please? Cheers.

nice sequence of pics...

El Gigante?

well done drew.

Nice landing... but everything looks easy on an APEX canopy. :) To the original poster, how much have you adjusted your steering-line settings? That is a big part of it, and I know other jumpers who have purchased new OSPs where the steering lines came way long from the manufacturer. Most manufacturers will err on the side of having lines too long, in order to avoid stalling canopies upon opening w/brakes set. Just can't pick an arbitrary length that will work for every body type/wing loading. Get those settings dialed in, and you might have better results. And practice different techniques in different conditions on a nice landing area.

will do jordan. so far ive shortened my brake lines 3" and i can tell that i need at least 2 or 3 inches more. i feel like as soon as i can get this stuffed dialed, that i will start to appreciate my OSP more and more.

I have been baffled by the number of BASE jumpers who I see fly their canopies in brakes and land from brakes when it is unnecessary. There is a reason classic accuracy is known as "SMACKURACY!!!", you are NOT going to get soft landings from sinking it all the way in, (unless there is a Tuffet under you), This is the reason for pea gravel pits at DZs also. There are of course going to be jumps that you may have to sink it in to some tiny little clearing over TALL trees but then you better be prepared to PLF. Most tight landing areas can still be handled by flying in brakes all you want to set up your approach but then going back to full flight at a sufficient altitude to get an effective flare from your canopy.

I agree 99% of what you say.

Full flight would only cause the canopy to surge and give you more than SMACKURACY

Timing is key and depending on how deep your breaks are when your sinking it, I'd rather keep sink'n and PLF than deal with the surge from breaks to full flight

Thanks, I think you misunderstood me a little. Of course going from deep brakes to full flight will cause the canopy to surge, that is a basic no no that we warn students about in a 1st jump course, I said to go back to full flight "at sufficient altitude".

Im sure you know this Jordan, but just to make sure nobody gets the wrong idea from your post.
Moving the toggleposition will not do any good/bad to the stallpoint.
If you need to shorten the brakelines you should shorten the lower steering line.

Brakelines are three parted, upper steering line attach to the canopy (4 or 5 lines). A cascade connects them to the lower steering line.
The last part is the brake to toggle line, and this is where your brake settings are.
And moving the toggle further from your deep/shallow setting will not affect the stallpoint when brakes are set.


Typically you adjust the lenght of the brake to toggle line in skydiving to "finetune" a canopy.
But this is not what Jordan is talking about.

Just figured i had to say something before some muppet shortend their BK-TOG lines and stall their canopy in landing.

Thanks for noting that, I should have been more clear.... Deep brakes are often set too long (for the purpose of avoiding stall-upon-opening), and where the toggles are positioned on the steering lines (if they are already set from the factory) might also need to be shortened, depending on the canopy pilot, how long their arms are, etc. I have noticed this on a few OSP canopies, where the lines BELOW the brake settings to the toggle-attachments themselves need to be shortened for effective flare. Obviously if they are too short, you could potentially hit your stall point too soon while flaring the canopy, so dial them in slowly and carefully. Again, thanks for the clarification there.

Fox 245 about .7. Works about the same at .8 (I've been skinny and fat).

Yup! You have to love countries where they let you build landing areas for jumpers and helicopters in national parks.

personally, with my OSP straight from the factory (i am taller than average with lanky long arms), my OSP couldnt even hit the stall point, when i had my toggles buried down as far as i could. this provided some shitty landings at first, until i moved the toggle position up the brake line.

I am not very good in the brakes zone, but the guys who are, land soft, very soft, in critical spots, and they use the brakes on the way in, but don't necessarily even "flare" at the end. Seems like they just use that last little tiny bit of braking well.

It appears to be a patience and confidence thing.

Gigante? Is that next to Basaseachic Falls in Mexico?

Damn. Phil Smith and I went down and checked out a bunch of stuff. The falls, Copper Canyon, etc. We were going to jump the falls, but it was cooking and the blast was so bad that we couldn't find what we considered a safe landing area.

Stealthy, you are on the money about sinking. I wasn't going to post about accuracy and pea gravel pits. Trying to hide my age.

That is the way accuracy is/was done. Jump a parafoil that was totally doggy, but wouldn't stall. Sink right into the pea gravel and stab your sharpened heal on the disk. The rest of your ass would be safe in the pea gravel. if you tried it on concrete, it would hurt or worse.

I tell ya, I did my first base jump on my 24th jump. Back then, there were climbers purposely doing as few skydives as possible to get their BASE numbers.

I figured out that that was stupid pretty quickly. I was always jumping. Either BASE or skydiving. So I learned a lot of things about parachutes and how to fly them, that you it is hard to learn just with BASE.

El Gigante in Mexico?

Damn.

Phil Smith and I spent a couple of weeks scouting sites in copper canyon and Basaseachic Falls back in 86 or something. The falls looked perfect, but were screaming. We couldn't find a landing site that wasn't getting blasted by the falls.

So we bailed on that one and planned on coming back later. Never did.

As for sinking. When you are in your breaks at all, you have lost part of the forward speed for optimum flare on landing. A low wingloading will help, but if you are trying to sink straight down on the edge of a stall, be ready to PLF.

That is why you can do a chinup on a front riser, get massive speed, and turf surf with a hook turn. Coming in on breaks does just the opposite. This should be obvious to anyone.

Yes, you can let up and get your speed back, but make sure you have altitude to get past the surge.

This is canopy control 101 stuff. Go to the DZ more often. No kidding.

I tend to have no problems sinking it in from 20 feet or under. I know thats pretty lame, but in a tight spot it might come in handy. Here's a short clip of me stopping my forward speed and "sinkin" in at Twin. Granted, I turned lowish with very brakes to gain speed first so my flair was strong. I think that this is one instance where a low(er) turn can help if your environment allows for it.
Grain of salt, I'm new, as you already know CW.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww7SStx_D_U

Looks like you have a few knots of headwind.

Do your little turn and flare high in a 5 knot downwinder... Post video.

There was for sure a bit of headwind. Hence why I made the turn instead of flying straight in with brakes. But the wind wasn't that strong. I think it's more about just feeling what your canopy is doing. As you give it inputs it tells you what it's going to do before it does it. When I feel it stop and rock me forward I am able to usually back off just a tad, then continue to apply brakes until I touch (sometimes hit) the ground. In a 0 wind situation the same results are pretty easy.
I'll be jumping my Ace at the DZ today on a couple jumps, I'll find out if I'm bullshit or not. But I think I can confidently sink it in from that altitude in a 2-4 mph tailwind. 5 knots? What is that? 6 mph?

Huh, I must be doing something wrong? I seem to be able to get soft landings quite frequently while sinking and flaring from 3/4 brakes, and no wind?
Maybe you can enlighten me as to the flaw in my technique, Stealthy?