Basejumper.com - archive

Aight here goes... Last night at approximately 1am I jumped a B local to me. It's over a church and parking garage. 260 feet to parking garage impact and approximately 310 feet to ground. I believe this was my 10th jump from it. The plan is handheld go n throw off of corner and after opening fly to the right over the parking garage then over the street and another right and land in the parking lot next to your car to get away. There is normally a slight wind between the buildings that helps push you over the garage but lastnight the winds were dead. I had a little bit of a rushed exit after walking by 3 12yr old boys hiding that I didn't see in time. Possibility that brokte my focus a little bit. Had a strong push and good exit but took too long of a delay slightly over a second which put me a little low. To compound the problem I had a 70-80 degree left. After opening I realized with the off heading to the left I was going to have to land on the top of the garage. I was aware of the layout of the top of the garage and knew about where I wanted to set it down. As I approached I knew I needed to bleed off some altitude to hit my spot so I made a slight S turn. I was using rear risers and never pulled toggle loose because I dint feel I had time from being so low. I pulled too hard on the risers for the S turn and it left me about 10 feet to the right of where I wanted to be which was heading into the side of the enclosure for the stairwell. The structure was coming from my right and 12 feet tall. It was 3 feet to the right of a 3 feet tall pad I was aiming for. I tried to plant my right foot on the wall and push off as I flared so I could make the landing on the raised metal and concrete pad I was aiming for. As I pushed off of the wall I either stalled the canopy or I unweighted it enough that it collapsed and I fell the 12 feet onto the ledge of the metal and concrete pad's corner and hit my butt cheek and hip first which broke my pelvis and busted a cpl ribs loose and left me wedged into the gap between the 2 structures. Long story about the rest of the night but I ended up in the trauma unit of the best hospital in town for the rest of the night and morning. So I threw a little too low and had an off heading and over exaggerated pressure on risers and I paid the consequences. Let the questions and discussion begin. I only ask the flames lay out on this one. I'm hurting bad and am in no mood for smartest comments. Hope everybody has fun safe jumps this weekend :)

Ouch!...hope you feel better real soon dude.

Damn! I guess we're not jumping it next weekend? ( trying to make you smile) Nick told me about it tonight. I hate to hear it!!!! Donna and Nash hope you feel better! Take it easy, speedy recovery!

That was the most fascinating part of your whole story. No flaming on a BASE forum. Classic!

That's like saying - OK you Rock Stars, please don't touch all that cocaine cut up on the coffee table. Just this time.



p.s. Good learnings - I had a similar experience many, many years ago. I "landed" on the roof of a parking garage (steep sloped) and had to climb down a 4 story drain pipe on the side wall of the building with my gear (of course) and a broken leg. That was my second and last downtime injury in BASE. My newish girlfriend (now wife ) was my ground crew. Funny times.

Heal well - glad your alive to tell the tale. . . . . . . and. . . . . . toughen up princess!

p.s. you said "smartest comments" - mine was dumb so I should be OK.

Lame, hope you heal well. IMO, if you had time to "S turn", wouldn't you have had time to pop toggles? I know hindsight is always 20/20... Also, why S turns? Why not just sink the canopy, effectively staying on the desired flight path? I was taught long ago to forget S turns in BASE jumping, that sinking the canopy is the way to go. I have had at least one jump where sinking saved my ass and s turns were not an option (due to the tightness of the canyon I was in). I assume not but did you have any options to land left (in the direction of the off heading)? Look on the bright side, at least you aren't paralyzed! Sounds like that fall could have left you much worse off... 12 year olds dude...

Very glad you lived and are not paralyzed!!

Eventually, we all make atleast 1 mistake...

The following is not to flame you, only to
share my opinions & possibly help others:

260 foot Buildings are not to be taken lightly

Static Lines are good for Low, Urban jumps

Static Line = higher opening + better heading

Rear Risers are easy to over-amp and stall

Sinking with Toggles is an important skill

Again, I am glad you survived and wish the
best, most complete recovery possible bro

Were the brakes still stowed when you attempted to flare? Did you use the deep brake settings? I watched a friend of mine attempt to correct an offheading with riser input & brakes still stowed, she backed up & hit the tower. If you are not facing an obstacle, unstow the brakes & get the canopy flying. I hope you heal fast & without complication.

Part of the S turn we to avoid a light pole. And I totally agree I should have just sank it in and yeah that's definitely 20/20! Yeah it was an entirely lame jump full of stupid beginner's mistakes! I learned a lot and thankful I'm not hurt really bad. Hope somebody reads this and realizes how serious B jumps are and KNOW your outs and go over them every jump! I didn't realize how fast stuff seems when put in a bad situation and need to hone my skills in a lot more!!! Il be practicing a lot of sinking drills as soon as I can jump again. Fun and safe jumps to everybody this weekend :).

PS... I meant to say smartass comments originally but my phone has this stupid auto spell thing. Peace

Just curious - but at what time were you jumping if 3 12 year old boys were hiding
Or may be they were alter boys hiding from the pastor if it was a catholic church!
Anyways - heal fast

Damn, Cale...
Hope you heal fast and sans complications. So, I'm not believing nobody else asked this....got video?

Left brakes stowed in deep setting and focused on missing light poles and picking out a spot. Def took it stupid low and caused the most problems.

Omg it hurts so bad to laugh but dam it this was totally worth it!!!!! It's a really high dollar high security condo building so their parents probably didn't care too much that they were on the roof by the pool. It was between midnight and one am tho

I wouldn't normally say this but you gave me permission...
Look dude I think ur a dipshit!

You said you are ok with questions so here are a few...

Why did you think that you didn't have time to unstow your brakes and sink it in? You had your hands on the risers, right? Was there some other factor that caused you to stick with only risers? Had you practiced brakes stowed rear riser flairs before? If you could do the jump over would you? What would you do differently, besides not get hurt? Would you recommend new jumpers spend more time learning canopy control skills such as rear riser turns and flairs, deep brake approaches and unstowing brakes so as to have minimal surge, BEFORE attempting BASE?

I know it's tough to land on a parking garage when you were not planning on landing there... I had the opportunity to do that once. Small parking garage, tall lights, many parked cars and a 10ft chain link fence with razor wire all around. I found out later why there was so much security for a parking deck.... it was the FBI's

I am happy you are alive and I am happy you are sharing your experience with everyone. Hopefully someone will take your advice and realize that not only "B" jumps are dangerous but all BASE jumps can be as well, depending on how well prepared you are and if lady luck is on your side!

heal fast!

570 you sir hit the nail on the head! I'm def feeling like a dipshit! I have practiced rear riser control and felt comfortable with it and had I been slightly less aggressive turning I wouldn't even have been writing this. If I did have the opportunity to jump again I wouldn't have taken a delay for starters and would def have went over my outs better. Still not thinkin I would grab goggles but had I been less nervous about landing off maybe I would but not sure. Hope this helps somebody at least.

do you realize you can grab your toggles and quickly pull them down to whatever level you desire? pull them to the correct point and your canopy will not change significantly. no surge at all.

in virtually no time, you can have access to your most familiar control tools.

Maybe he forgot whether they were packed to the inside or the outside of the risers.

So basically a text book not enough experience, low time BASE jumper accident... Whats new? Doesn't matter how many times people are told and shown there's always another one that thinks they are the exception. Until they aren't. I don't fell sorry for you and I'm not going to sugar coat it just cause your hurt. You clearly should not have been jumping this object, going low was not the mistake that got you hurt. Being stupid is.

Looks like you deleted a post but how did you think that spacing 70 skydives over 17 months better helped you prepare for BASE. Better then over 18 months I guess, but the exact opposite of being better prepared.

Would you jump it again? Without more preparation? I guess you'll just make sure you pull higher next time eh?

Haha. I love sarcasm. This post wins!

To the OP, glad this jump ended as a learning experience instead of a BSBD post. The thing I'm most reminded about in this thread is establishing emergency procedures before they exist. Could there have been another place to set down if you would have unstowed? Maybe landing on the top could have been okay if it were expected as a :plan B." I know not all flicks, low or high, render alternate places land, but as it's been said many times, if you always plan for an off heading you'll never be surprised by one (kinda BS but good advice).

Good post and thanks for not blasting away. I knew that was my plan b however I made the mistake of getting to comfortable with the jump and not going through the ins and outs of the jump in my head and only had the " jump is going to go like the other 9 and be perfect and uneventful" in my mind. I opened that B on my 5th and this was my 30th jump and 10th off of this particular B. I got comfortable and made mistake after mistake and I paid. Thankfully I didn't die and I learned and I hope somebody else can also learn from it and not have to pay for the lesson.

Not getting pissed at criticism but I already said I don't need any flaming. I know I fucked up and I admit it. I don't hide anything or lie and never will. I wouldn't have posted if I cared what yall would think but Il never put up people talkin shit that doesn't do any good for anything. I hate that I thought that I should post up to try to help. Won't make that mistake again! That's what I am truly stupid for.

Nobody is shit talking, they are calling you out. Your not stupid for trying to learn from your mistakes by posting here. Your stupid because your refusing to read the writing on the wall, your lack of experience led to your own demise. You seriously need to take that into consideration as a BIG link in the chain of events that led to this outcome. Your just lucky your still here to learn from all this after the fact.

Did you even consider the fact that your B is now Hot for everyone else... You turn the heat up & your gonna get flamed, accept it bro...

that seems like a harsh FIRST post...

registered the day it was posted.

empty profile.

mxcale screwed up. agreed. but he hasn't been hiding. he posted his aggressive approach to BASE in previous posts. where where your warnings?

<sigh>
it will always be hard to develop a sense of community when people create a new username just to criticize.

My best advice i ever got was from my mentor..
He said if your going to base jump, make sure you don't do it on your own...

Now i have almost 2000 skydives, and sub 100 base jumps... but anytime i jump, it has always stuck in my mind, that despite my mad skillz and indistructable nature, i am not quite ready to base jump, i pack messy, i'm 230lbs, and i don't like to rely on purley my own judgement abotu a jump...
If you go i'll go, and if you pack this way and your still alive, i'll adjust mine if it makes sense...

its cool that you have been given the oppitunity to tell us how you fucked up, i find it scary that you thought s turns were the way fwd.... and that you have no idea where the stall point is on your rears...and that you did not plan 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th outs when it did not go to plan...
but each to there own,, this is not the uspa or bpa or nzipa, this is you and your mistakes... and your life... and frankly as i don;t know you i could not care less if you die or if you burnt an object in the middle of some state i will never go to.

Stay safe, maybe start jumping with others again, so next time if you go in under silk, they'll at least be able to get you carted away with out you bleeding out with only your 12 year old wanabe friends to look out for you...

Cale typed:
Still not thinkin I would grab goggles

Why?? I assume you mean Toggles and
will blame the typo on your phone and
the really good pain meds you are on

In all seriousness, I personally believe
toggles are usually the better tool for
BASE jumps, atleast above 180 feet.

I have ~36 BASE jumps from between
260 feet & 180 feet and probably 100+
jumps with freefall from 315' and below.

On ALL them I used toggles! Because
they provide better/finer control/input.

We both jump Trolls, I assume yours
is also vented if you are freefalling
from 260' buildings.

Yanking a riser group pulls down 25%
of the canopy, a couple inches makes
a bigger difference. While pulling on a
toggle affects only the corner of the
wing and is less sensitive to input.

I want this thread to stay open so your
confession of an Idiot moment might
help others in your community

If they can't learn from "The List" then yet another rookie accident like this one isn't going to teach them either. After all, look where you are at now.
I am always amused when idiots finally have this great epiphany (usually after fucking themselves) and then feel the need to try and prevent it from happening to other idiots just like themselves who will be just as equally un-willing to listen.
Hope you heal up bro, but seriously get a clue.

I disagree. Reminders are nice because we all get complacent. If you say you never do than you are either A) a liar, B) A superhero, C) unsure what complacency is.
I like to see and hear about other people living through fuck ups. These scenarios play through my head before jumps. And I honestly can't say that they all would be playing there if I didn't get a chance to hear/see them.
I can only imagine so much on my own, the rest of this road has been paved by those who have walked here before me. Some footprints I follow, some I have learned to avoid, and some I create and share.

incident stories also provide some indication as to the frequency of mishaps. complacency is a killer. people ought not be fooled into think "The List" is a full compilation of unhappy endings.

This thread takes away the mystery about what happened and what went wrong in a long chain of events. I'm glad I read it otherwise I might have made the same mistake. It's so much easier to learn from non-fatal incidents reported in first person. I have no base jumps yet but I appreciate every post here as they might be mistakes I can avoid. Thanks for teh post!

I would say 99% of 'mishaps' never reach the public domain and remain with friends, thus the reports of strikes and injuries here are not even the tip of the iceberg.

New jumpers need to respect the fucking game.

I'll agree with all the above. I'll add that I've seen new jumpers eyes light up when told about jumps that went wrong. it is a benefit of having guidance.

sadly, the injured jumper lacked a mentor (iirc), and thus no one to provide cautionary tales. (this thread also may be his way of providing the sort of guidance he failed to get...)

I bet most jumpers, including this one, thought they WERE "respecting the fucking game." it's amazing how being close to carnage educates jumpers to how much they do not know. most meticulous jumpers I've met have brushed up against carnage in some shape or form.

it's simply a question of motivation and understanding the consequences. when people THINK they know, it is hard to pry open their minds and get them to slow down.

you must be easily amused.

More and more reguarly too the way the sport has been progressing.

I am going to be nice and ignore all the other links in the chain of events that led up to this injury. You want other people to learn from your injury? Good. That is a great attitude and we should take advantage of it. Please don't take it as "flaming you" that the lessons you wish people to learn are not the one's I find in your story.

I am sorry you got hurt, but I am willing to bet you $1000 that you can't make the landing you were trying to make in the daylight and from an airplane.

You identified an "out" that was not an out for you.

I challenge you, when you get well, to go to a dropzone and lay out your proposed "out", with all of its restrictions, and try to land there 10 times in a row. If you can't do it, it isn't an out. Keep in mind that from an airplane, you are going to have a couple of thousand feet to get setup, get used to the canopy, get the feel of the wind, get to just the right depth of brakes, and sink it in. And you still are going to fail, because you don't have the canopy experience to do it.

I'm not being mean, just honest. Go out to the dropzone and watch somebody with 500 jumps declaring for his PRO rating. He doesn't have ANY of the restrictions you do. No walls, stairwells, handrails, etc. He can come in from any direction because he has no buildings on the sides or power lines to avoid. The winds are generally predictable. And he has loads of experience on his canopy. And still, it is a challenge and an accomplishment for him to land within that designated space 10 times in a row. Why would you assume that you could pull that off? If you had put in your time skydiving, you might have known how difficult what you were attempting was.

So how about this for a lesson? If you are new to the sport and eying something as a potential object, as part of your preparation for jump, suck it up and go hang out with the skydivers, mark out your
landing area and restrictions with paint or crepe paper in the lz, and practice until you can hit it consistently. And the best thing is, it's free! You just put all the money you are saving in medical bills towards the skydiving.

Getting hurt in this sport is always a possibility. Unless you are poorly prepared; then it is a certainty.

Heal quickly.

Thanks for uppingup. But what you say is exactly flammable. You made a mistake that is common and now you want to tell otters to not make the same mistake. Break it down. I stuck my hand in the fire and it burned me, one shouldnt do this. WTF? Duh? The only great point about your post is that was that you said you got burned by stickin your you hand in the fire and NOW YOU ARE PAYIN. LIKe we didnt know this. hmmm Fire, Hand, let us see what happens when we combine them. Ferget what others say. I am special because I have fire retardant genes. Then your hand gets fried and the "toldyasos" come out and you want a hi5. but ya cant. Because you didnt want to listen to stuff that the cavemen and their descendants told you. You want a medal for this?
Thanks for trying to help telling peeps that if you stick your hand into the fire, you will get burned. You have proved again. I think no one has any doubt now.The others that did the same didnt maybe know the flame is hot. but you have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt as has manymany before you.
You have proven that you are a true MOFO (Master Of te Freakin Obvious).
Kudos to you and those whose thinkthat levi's genes are invincible and passing on the truth that it aint a myth.
Take care, and thanks,
space

The biggest mistake he made is posting on this forum. He should have known that a bunch of assholes are going to get on here and talk shit. Thats all that goes on. And come on? create a user name just so you can do it and no one will know who you are? Own up to your bullshit!

Exactly sir. If these bigmouth [posters] were in front of me they wouldn't be talkin so big! They would let it go with just a "damn dude glad your alright and hope you learned from it" but in here everybody is a badass cuz the repercussions aren't immediate. Cheers assholes good luck talkin tough shit to my face after I heal up. Once again I was tryin to help out and somehow started a mess. FUCK OFF to all the smart mouths know it all's and hope to jump with the cool ones on here. My profile will be disabled/deleted soon. Too much unnecessary BS for me :) peace!



edited to remove a antagonizing PA -- wwarped

stupid is as stupid does.
take care

Most jumpers know who I am. I think it is in my profile anyway. if you need more info, just pm me.
He screwed up on a topic that hash been hashed before and again and again. I own upto my bs. call me on it if you wish.
take care, space
hint, base283

Sorry, Not you specifically. I am talking about all the assholes in general didn't mean to single you out bro.

no worries,
Take care,
space

I still say thanks for the post. I've learned from it. I guess other newbies (and you) have too. Sorry about all the flaming though. Hope you get better real soon dude.

Yeah! What he said!! seriuosly, heal it up and maybe we can play when ai get back from Urrupp;})

First off, I have been flamed and threatended
online... but in person, well the most aggressive
anyone has gotten was to flick me off, truth is
most humans do not want to fist fight.

Second, YES, Cale fucked up. Fellow Ginger
BASE Juming Brother: You earned your scars!

Third, let's talk about at what altitude the guys
with MUCH MORE low experience than me think
it is too low to go for toggles.

Like I said, 180'+ go for toggles, based on
video of Greeny and other BMF's I'd say that
143' and below you go for Risers.

I still want to learn, I hate hospital food!!

the harsh comments are coming from frustrated, experienced, BASE jumpers. essentially, the main people who should learn from this story are wannabee jumpers, not newbie jumpers.

if a BASE jumper learns a lot from this, then it sounds like they have failed in their preparation, did not research enough, and took BASE jumping too lightly.

sadly, incidents like this are nothing new to experienced jumpers who want the carnage to stop.

Sums it up the best for sure.

Holy crap Cale, have a hissy fit!!!

I think it is great you posted your story and are trying to help. By doing so you are being a bigger person than most out there but you loose that credibility when you let your ego get bruised by the comments. Comments that you KNEW would be coming. What I see here, and what happens a lot, are a couple of things... experienced jumpers want to point out mistakes that led up to the incident, because they believe that the offending jumper can't see what has occurred and have not learned their lesson. This blindness happens in many instances, not just BASE. When the offending jumper takes the comments personally and blows up like you have done, it only solidifies the experienced jumpers belief that the offending jumper is not leaning his lesson so they push harder, which leads to the offending jumper to get more pissed and around and around it goes.
It's difficult when we have experienced jumpers who have trouble clearly communicating what they truly want to say without sounding harsh and we have new jumpers who take their attempts at communication as a personal attack.

You screwing up is neither good nor bad but a neutral event just as comments against you are neutral, our egos however like to put the judgments of good and bad on those events and then we have these conflicts.
If people didn't care about your well-being they would not be reaching out for you to hear them. It's not a personal attack unless you allow it to be one. You have a choice.
Why not break the cycle, don't take things personally and set examples that are easier on your body?

Hell, you have a perfect opportunity to prove and improve yourself. I would take scubadivemasters bet and stick those dead centers. You get to improve your skills and win $1000, shit that's a no brainer to me but I like competitions so I would challenge him to the same!

Man, you don't get it do you... Or maybe you do and you just like stirring the pot either way.

I hope you heal up well and that when you return to jumping you have a little more perspective. First of all, these VERY VERY experienced jumpers you speak off most likely have the EXPERIENCE to know when they can and can't take it low. They know the outs AND have the skill to land in them. The large landing area didn't save his/her ass, the decisions and practice prior to the jump is what saved their ass. Just like your lack of all of the above broke yours. I would be happy to tell you to your face pretty much anything anyone in this thread has said. You'll be able to find me at the local dropzone skydiving and having a read of your reply's in between jumping my ass off all day. YOU fucked up and failed to prepare properly for what you were getting into. Going low didn't get you hurt, jumping the wrong object for your skill set did.

Sure you helped, but not the way you thought you were going to. Some peoples purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others. You've done a great job, future jumpers now have another guide to how NOT to get into BASE.

By the way, kinda ironic. I've come across mxcale on the other forum before, provided a bit of entertainment there to. Apparently he really does think hes the exception to the rules... Yep that's right I dug up an old thread again, get over it!!!

[flamebit]Flown your fancy new V4 yet?[/flamebit]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4127184#4127184

Not everything is about you. If you re-read what I read, it wasnt in reply to you, but about how reports on here are not representative of the overall accidents and fuck ups.

I personally could not give a flying fuck about you and/or your cock up, I myself have fucked up, and many more will continue.

Where the "respect the fucking game" came from, is that yes I believe new jumpers need to respect BASE a little more seriously. If you took this at a pop at you, then apologies, but you have some sort of "its all about me" issue.

In addition, my friend is currently laid up with 2 x shattered femurs, 2 x shattered tib n fibs. from a BASE accident this past weekend, and he took this shit very seriously and was extremely cautious and thoughtful... This shit will bite you when you are careful, never mind adding to the odds of a fuck up.

So, I say once again, new jumpers (re ALL jumpers), need to respect the fucking game...

Get over yourself, you will be forgotten in a week or so, leaving you to recover bored and frustrated...some other fucker will be flamed to fuck, and you can join in...

Recover fast and well, injury sucks arse no matter how you got them... Beast the physio!

Mac-FuckTard

PS) Gingers are just wrong anyway...

yep, that summarizes the dynamic pretty accurately!

people get lied to all the time, mostly by themselves. we all seem to live in denial over something.

yes, people get hurt in BASE. accidents & incidents occur. I've fucked up several times. it seems some accept this as an inevitable fact, so why put in too much effort to prevent it? why not just go hard, laughing all the way to the injury?

-----
oh, and I have removed a couple posts from mxcale. he has taken criticisms personal and views things as a flame war. his posts to stoke the fire have been pulled.

or maybe they took away his morphine drip.

heal fast mr. mxcale.

Sorry to hear you hurt yourself.
You aren't alone in having made mistakes. I have made many, one of them resulted in an injury.
Recognizing and learning from my mistakes makes me a better jumper.

I am not familiar with your obj, but the one thing I would have done differently would be to use the toggles. I have experimented with risers and the results are always worse than toggles (for me). I always do heading corrections and obj avoidance with toggles.

Out of curiosity, how did you get to the hospital? Did you tell them it was a base accident? Do you know if your insurance company is going to cover you? In my case i made up a story that didn't involve trespassing or base and i was covered. Not sure what would have happened if my ins company knew the truth.

Hope you get better soon.

For what it's worth, mxcale has request to me that his account be removed, so I have done that for him.

I just bring this up so future posts in this thread are not directed at him personally, as it would serve no purpose.

Boy, that escalated quickly... I mean, that really got out of hand fast....

I hit somebody with a trident.

~Brick

I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You should find yourself a safehouse or a relative close by. Lay low for a while, because you're probably wanted for murder...

It jumped up a notch..................


Brick, where did you get that hand grenade?

It did...didn't it?

Does anyone know him personally?

I mean do we really think its a smart thing to let someone who just got injured due to a mistake walk off like that? Do you think he is ever going to listen to any experinced jumpers again when they give him advice? Sounds pretty dangerous to me, if not for him and his family for the bad rap the sports going to get when he goes in trying to land on some other sketchy "out" using just rears.

Im not saying he wasnt acting like a baby, but i dont think everyone else was acting all that mature about the situation either. For all we know he is just hopped up on PKs and is a real nice guy.

I vote we ask him to come back and we just delete the thread, i honeslty dont think i learned anything from this one anyway except that BASE jumpers get hurt, and other BASE jumpers shoot them with flamethrowers :)

-Serg

I'm with Asgard. Mainly because his name is Asgard

Ok so BIG mistake on my part, as was pointed out to me in a PM by Divalent i missed the best post on this entire forum (link to the DZ.com thread), probably cuz i was just getting yelled at by my client. Please excuse my understanding and kindheartedness. Flame on :)

That's too bad. The post was fine before the fits. Pain killers do that to people sometimes so I wouldn't hold it against him.

I'll take a wild guess, MX will read this anyway. It's just a forum, blow it off and move on, ... And use your toggles

Steering with the brakes set is the fastest way to lose control. Riser turns are for emergency avoidance. A riser flare with the brakes set, means you were so low that you only had time to grab and pull down the moment the canopy opened. Just reading the post and by personal experience, you had plenty of time to use the toggles. Use them, especially if you're low.

Brakes set:
- No forward penetration
- Likely to stall if left set
- Turning will cause a rapid loss of altitude
- Flaring... sucks! because if it hasn't stalled already, it is very likely.

Attempting to fly with risers with the brakes set is often a quick way to get hurt. The original post shows it.

If you too, are one of the people that over uses risers, I can highly suggest learning another method before doing anything technical.

An example: I've had 11 seconds from a 250 foot B 3 times in a row. 2 times I hit the brakes immediately backed it up and turned 90 right at the same time to land in the street. The first jump from the B was a different exit point and I had a 90 left, then flew it over the trees to sink it into other 2 lanes on the other side.

Learn to sink that canopy in. And I mean REALLY sink it in. Learn to fly the stall point and recover some of your flight before the flare. You may also just sink it in all the way and PLF. Learn to get your toggles quickly. If you're a riser turner and have a 180 when it's low, beware, you will run out of air quickly. Use that info as you wish as I won't argue toggles/risers for corrections.

If you believe you're good enough for technical jumps right away, well, chances are you're not. Many people get away with it a few times and believe it to be true. Then, after a quick jump that goes to hell, the person learns a ton in one second. Hopefully it doesn't hurt too bad and you're smart enough to be a bit more cautious.

Someone will benefit from reading this, many won't, but that's ok.

Good luck and heal up.

Dammit what did I miss... Someone PM me!!!

I know what I am taking away from reading this thread:


That's fucking gold right there!

I do, and he is one of the nicest, coolest, most accommodating people I have ever met. How many of you have hosted 10 jumpers from all over the country in YOUR house at the same time for the entire weekend just so they could more easily jump YOUR objects? Cale has done that on more than one occasion and is always willing to do it in the future. Cale is a solid jumper that made a jumping mistake and will learn from it. Trust me, he is beating himself up over this.

His biggest mistake was posting it on here. He admitted he messed up and was just sharing a story. If you know Cale then you know he is an open book. He has no verbal filter and speaks whats on his mind. I dont know why people on the internet feel its their duty to constantly tell someone how stupid they are, when the reason the conversation exists in the first place is because they admitted they did something dumb. How about you guys go out and jump more instead of posting so much?


First of all, you have no business trying to stop him, and if you did how would you propose doing it? That's the great thing about BASE, you can do whatever you want. Secondly, and MUCH more importantly, he does have experienced jumpers giving him advice. They just don't care enough about basejumper.com to feel the need to do it on here.

Amen Fiend. His is the most intelligent post in this entire thread!

In my original post, i was asking for someone who does know him to talk to him and get him to chill out realize the flames are harmless and to come back and keep reading and posting on this site. I wasnt saying stop him from doing anything else, i meant stop him from walking off and deactivating his account. No reason to let a few flames cause such an issue. There is alot of good information here, and isnt information what keeps base jumpers safe?

Well at least he will have some one to visit him in his hospital bed.

Cale made many mistakes and i sadly suspect the only one he will focus on/learn from is the mistake of stalling his canopy. Which is some thing at least. But it won't help him when he attempts another jump he is unqualified for and breaks himself again in different scenario.

I don't think any one wants him to feel stupid. They just want him to realize that you can't behave stupidly.

Then you all failed your friend.

I'm glad to see that there's a PERFECT BASE jumper. Congrats! Good for you!

The only reason to make a turn on rear risers with the brakes still set is because you _intend_ to stall the canopy, to avoid imminent object strike. Even in this case, you should only turn the canopy until it is no longer pointed toward a strike, and then immediately switch to toggles.

If you are not in imminent danger of object strike, you should be grabbing the toggles.

If your brakes are set and you are grabbing the rear risers, you are not trying to fly your canopy--you are trying to stall it. This is the correct response in the case of an imminent object strike, but in virtually no other situations.

The jump or the thread?

Hate to burst your bubble, but no hospital bed, he's been working every day since the accident.


Well it's a good thing there are people on the internet willing to tell him what he already knows. He did start the thread afterall.


You're right. Maybe his experienced friends should have held his hand, and told him what he can and cant do, and changed his diaper. I dont know how the rest of the world does it but I believe in personal responsibility. Last time i checked that's the number one rule in base. Maybe we should get a governing body to tell us what we can and cant do.

I'm going to go back to planning my jumps for the weekend. You kids have fun arguing on the net and play nice. Let me know who wins.

"MUCH more importantly, he does have experienced jumpers giving him advice. They just don't care enough about basejumper.com to feel the need to do it on here."


Not trying to knock anyone here but seriously, did none of the "experienced" jumpers advise him that a 260ft FF of a B with limited outs is not a very good 30th jump let alone his 5th jump?

Laters

Julian

What is mxcale's and your definition of an experienced jumper? For all we know you could be referring to someone more experienced than cale, which could be someone with 50 BASE from the perrine and 150 skydives over 5 years.


Personal responsibility IS the way things should be handled but unfortunately most that think they are being responsible are far from it. Take this thread for instance, is cale acting responsibly by throwing a fit and storming off like a 6 year old because he doesn't like what people are saying to him? Is he not shifting blame to anyone that opposes his way of thinking? Like I said before, he has a choice to let comments affect him or not. He is ultimately responsible for his actions and in this case he choose to blame others for the way he interprets their words.
If you believe in personal responsibility, why are you trying to defend cale? Isn't that his responsibility and not yours?

I think that this is a very interesting quote that may hold true in BASE as well, what does everyone else think?

“We of this mighty western Republic have to grapple with the dangers that spring from popular self-government tried on a scale incomparably vaster than ever before in the history of mankind, and from an abounding material prosperity greater also than anything which the world has hitherto seen.

As regards to the first set of dangers, it behooves us to remember that men can never escape being governed. Either they must govern themselves or they must submit to being governed by others. If from lawlessness or fickleness, from folly or self-indulgence, they refuse to govern themselves then most assuredly in the end they will have to be governed from the outside. They can prevent the need of government from without only by showing they possess the power of government from within. A sovereign cannot make excuses for his failures; a sovereign must accept the responsibility for the exercise of power that inheres in him; and where, as is true in our Republic, the people are sovereign, then the people must show a sober understanding and a sane and steadfast purpose if they are to preserve that orderly liberty upon which as a foundation every republic must rest.”

-President Theodore Roosevelt; Opening of the Jamestown Exposition; Norfolk, VA, April 26, 1907

Shirking personal responsibility is one of the reasons we have so many laws and regulations in this country and why freedoms are lost everyday. We are being governed from the outside because the majority fail to govern themselves from within.

"Not trying to knock anyone here but seriously, did none of the "experienced" jumpers advise him that a 260ft FF of a B with limited outs is not a very good 30th jump let alone his 5th jump? "

I believe he had jumped that B several times before.

He posted it was his 10th jump off that B, his 30th jump in total and he opened the B on his 5th jump.

I think this is what most people are concerned with. A properly tuned canopy will be right on the edge of a stall when it opens and the brakes are stowed. It should have very minimal forward speed, so the idea of flying your pattern with brakes stowed is doubly scary. It means that his brakes are not tuned properly and a 180 would pretty much guarantee an object strike.

The fact that he insists on flying with brakes stowed even after getting bitten by it is why people are 'flaming' him.
-brendan

People are flaming him because they are a bit well I guess assholish is the word....

impulse control.

nothing more. nothing less.

having it means patience when selecting jumps.
it also prevents people from posting while inflamed by the story.

this thread is full of people not fully understanding each other! (but that's nothing new...)

To be fair, I think the responses were pretty measured and appropriate right up until Cale responded with personal attacks and profanity. He lost a lot of credibility at that point and I think made himself a bigger target when he appeared to refuse to listen to suggestions like releasing the brakes with that much canopy time.

I'm not slamming him, he seemed to be a pretty nice guy the few times I have met him. But being a nice guy doesn't give you canopy skills or experience, which is what I think people are trying to communicate to him.

You and I are of different schools of thought on BASE progression, (and that's okay). To me, it seems the people who have survived in BASE the longest without serious injury are the ones who really honed their skills skydiving. That doesn't mean I won't help a low time skydiver pack at Bridge Day so he can get a second jump, it just means I think before he starts jumping buildings it is more responsible of him to make sure he has the requisite skill set to consistently land injury free. And I don't think it is wise of me to help him get into that situation. BASE is not the place to build one's canopy skills. That is a lesson that I have seen people like Cale encounter time and time again in the last 4 years. I remember one low opening stall on risers on BD weekend 2007 that resulted in the jumper being permanently and horribly crippled.

Again, I hope he heals quickly and wish him nothing but the best. Being busted up sucks. And I sincerely hope that he will learn from it, and that others considering getting into BASE without a solid canopy skill set will look at this incident and think hard about putting themselves in a similar situation.

Are you mxcale in disguise or maybe his brother or something?
Why are you so offended by what others are trying to get him to realize? It seems you are very vocal on just this one issue.
Am I an asshole for asking that question?

This is a question for everyone... How do you distinguish a flame from constructive criticism? How can experienced jumpers do a better job of providing pertinent feedback to new jumpers without it hurting their ego/feelings?

I was thinkin' I could use me another couple cans'o that potted meat if ya got any extree.

Not funny haha...funny queer.......

Thats the nature of the BASE forum Beast...

If you look back over at BLiNC a decade + ago, the reaction would have been the same, if not more so, except it would not have been moderated down and controlled, and people would not have thrown their toys out of the pram and stormed off.

BASE jumpers have always, and will always not sugar coat advice, and may appear as "flaming", but to be honest, BASE is not a sugar coated sport, so why would you expect anything else?

Go on a climbing forum, motorbike forum, surfing forum, speedfly forum, paragliding forum, skydiving forum.... any forum, and post that you did something you were ill prepared for, and unknowledgable about, and you will also gain some "you idiot" responses. This is no different, other than people see their friends get injured and/or die for not making fundamental errors, so seeing someone inexperienced and unprepared adding to the risk already inherent within the sport will always receive some tough love, especially when its unavoidable with preperation and knowledge gathering that no doubt this guy, yourself, and others would have told skydiver wannabes to go off and do. Sadly alot of people dont follow their own advice.

People aren’t being arseholes, people are being BASE jumpers on a forum… This hasn’t changed since the early BASE board discussions, will not change going forward, and does not represent real life outside, we all know that… So don’t be so sensitive… BASE is not a fluffy sensitive sport.

Really? Then I think some where along the line I may have possibly been mislead

I was just kidding about that really......

love it!