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just tried to order a roll from apex, they wont be able to get it out to me until next thursday - I am moving to the east coast next thursday and will be idaho bound by then.

paragear wants a minimum 25 dollar order and im kind of on a budget.

does anyone have a roll of ripstop tape they would be willing to sell me for 10 bux and ill throw in shipping money? i can paypal you right now if you can get it to me by next wednesday.................

i would like to have some just in case, as im taking a 3 week x-country base trip

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what do you intend to use ripstop tape for?

Walt

in case i get a small tear in my canopy, i dont want it to end my trip

Small tears in a big canopy generally don't cause any issues. I jumped my skydivng canopy with a shitload of holes in the top skin for a couple of years before getting it repaired.

The adhesive on ripstop tape really sucks over the long term, which makes me not want to use it at all. I don't have any experience with using it for a few weeks and then removing it.

Anyone have any thoughts/experience on this?

Walt

if you have gear issues in TF, there are riggers in that area. (don't the folks behind the tandem operation make their containers?)

my preference...
before taking out that extra gear "insurance," make sure YOU are fully covered!

I've used it now. Let it sit weighted heavily over night. That shit isn't going anywhere.
My friend Andy patched more than a dozen little holes with it using the same "tape it inside and out, and weight it overnight" method and has had no problems. And that canopy has been in the water several times since.

I'll try and bring some sheets down with me this weekend, Transient, no big deal.

To clarify, what concerns me is not the adhesive's holding power, it's the adhesives's ability to degrade nylon fabric over time. Because of that. I stay away from it.

Walt

So you suggest sewing when possible or just leaving it if you can't sew it?

I suggest asking around and doing what makes sense. My personal choice is to not bother with small holes until they start getting bigger or there are enough to make it worthwhile to send to the factory for repair.

In some circumstances, rip stop can make sense as a temporary repair with emphasis on *temporary*. If canopy damage were bad enough that I wouldn't want to jump it without first applying ripstop tape, I probably wouldn't use it on a BASE jump anyway unless it was a guaranteed water landing.

I know I'm looking to get flamed for this but I suggest doing a search on the dropzone.com forums for "ripstop tape". There are even posts on how to remove the adhesive.

Lots of reasonable opinions and info on that topic over there.

Walt

You're not getting flamed, at least not by me. :) Everyone is entitled to his opinion and I like your style of look around and do what makes sense.

Still, I have to give my personal choice as well. I think rip stop tape is the shit and I have used it a lot to repair canopies. I also have heard the theory of the adhesive somehow reducing the durability of the canopy but I think this is urban myth or at least the reduce has no practical effect in BASE. I'm basing this statement to a personal experience having a Troll with about 700 jumps on it with some ripstop patches that have been on the canopy for last 4 years and 500 jumps. No problem with the patches during that time, they stay on super good and the canopy works like a charm. Also I know other experienced jumpers that I regularly jump with who have similar experiences.

We even once ripstopped a canopy which got hung on to a lamp post on a urban jump and had a rip about 3/4 of the tunnel in spanwise and maybe a foot or so chord wise on the bottom skin. We very carefully patched it with the tape, did couple of reinforcement tapings over the patch, packed it and my friend jumped the last couple of days of the trip with it. We examined the patch after every jump and it stayed on perfectly. Of course, having a damage of that size he got it repaired by a rigger after we got back from the trip.

Just my opinion, like the original poster said, ask around and make your own.

Walt summs it up better than I. As a rigger, it really sucks to patch a ripstopped temp repair. The adhesive tends to stick to the foot. You can have a handsized hole in the canopy and it wont fly perceptually different. Gaffers tape is the best for in field repairs. but since it is a BASE jump, one probably shouldnt jump it anyway. If you want to invest money on keeping your rig alive on the road it is better to buy lines. Ripstop is only a psychological boost for small holes. The amount of air that your canopy gives up is probably more than a square meter of opened rip. Think of it this way, Dang, I have a small hole in my canopy. Dang, my steering line is burned thru. 1st scenario is jumpable and 2nd is questionable. I am really surprised that any competent canopy manufacturer offers to sell ripstop.
Anyway, I hope this helps you.
Take care, space

Are you really that surprised that they like taking money from the un-educated

i appreciate the input and i thank you. i guess the bottom line is lets not tear our 2k canopy if we can avoid it.............

+1
2,5 years old patch, and 150+ jumps on my Troll. No problems whatsoever.

Can somebody please educate me on the practical effects in BASE scenario of this degrading effect of the adhesive on nylon fabric over time? What should I expect from this degrading effect if I patch my canopy with ripstop? The probability that the canopy rips again from the same place becomes higher over time?

The reason why I'm asking is that on my trusty old Troll, I have ripstop tape patched that are good 4 years and 500 jumps old and they still look like I put them on yesterday. So even if the adhesive has somewhat degraged the fabric on my Troll, the degration has been so small that it has had no practical effect in the last 500 jumps or so I've made with the canopy with the pacthes. The canopy has overall about 700'ish jumps on it and I intend to do maybe another 100 or so before retiring it. It was also inspected by the manufacturer about a year ago during line set change and Stane's verdict was also that the fabric is in reasonably good shape and is good to go for another couple of hundred jumps as a back up canopy / second rig. (I mainly jump my Trango nowadays).

So my question is, if a ripstopped canopy can last easily about 700-800 jumps with the patches, how is this adhesive degration effect visible in the fabric and how does it effect the lifetime or durability of the canopy?

I can describe my experience from years ago with a skydiving canopy. It was before ZP fabric was developed so nearly all canopies were made of either F-111 or some other kind of ripstop.

I was packing my canopy one day and noticed a long rip on a rib. The rip extended from the front crossport to the rear crossport.

As a temporary repair, the rigger put a long strip of ripstop tape on each side of the tear. I never got a proper repair done on that. I also used ripstop tape to repair small holes in the canopy.

Eventually the ripstop patches started curling at the edges and needed to be replaced. When I removed the patches what I found was that the fabric covered by the ripstop tape absorbed the adhesive and had become hardened. It is difficult to describe (anyone got pictures of this type of damage?) but if you can imagine taking some contact cement or other type of glue, spreading a thin layer over an area of ripstop, and leaving it for months or years until it became hardened and brittle, that's what it looked like.

To answer your question about the practical effect. I don't know that anyone has studied that but it would certainly be a good read. I can only guess. My guess is that if you use ripstop tape, then it should not be removed unless it is being properly patched because the fabric looks to be very weakened after removal.

As long as the adhesive holds, the tape *does* provide structural support, and that may be as strong or stronger than the original fabric. I would not bet on the strength after removal, though. I also consider the strength of the taped fabric to be an unknown, which is scary.

I think there is another factor that comes into play. BASE is a critical application for parachute equipment. I don't want any sloppiness in the gear because it gives me gear fear. Your mileage may vary.

I hope this helps.

Walt

It is possible that modern ripstop tape uses different adhesives than the old stuff. Reports of fabric degradation seem to be from pretty long ago, newer users report no problems. It is also possible that adhesives degrade F-111 more than ZP but my money's on newer adhesive being OK.

It is entirely possible that modern ripstop is ok but my experience from over 20 years ago left me with a very negative view toward ripstop tape and I am unwilling to give it a second chance because of that.

Space (BASE 283) has indicated that he does not consdier ripstop tape to be a good thing and I am sure his experience is much more recent than mine.

Still, some currently active BASE jumpers are using ripstop tape for repairs and reporting good results so I think it becomes a matter of doing what will give jumpers adequate confidence in their gear.

Based on my experience, I would rather jump a canopy with small holes in it than use ripstop tape and get the holes patched at the factory when the holes are big enough or there are enough holes to make the repairs worthwhile.

Others will feel differently.

Walt

Hey Waltappel: Then you have had shitty ripstop... Coz I jumped proximity 650 jumps with a canopy what was fixed with ripstop in year 2000 ...and If I look those patches now -> they still looks like put yesterday... ...and have fixed my wing suit (V2) as well after hitting the barbwire !

Ripstop is GREAT first aid and even permanent fixing stuff specially if you are road tripping and there is no riggers closer than 500km !

And if you make those patches in proper way: if necessary to both sides and if you cut the corners off (make round or elliptical patches) then it will last FOREVER !!!

Like I said its GOOD STUFF, I carrie always couples roll of that with me !

Do it proper and it works :)

-Tony Vilko- (one of those fucking Finns)

Hey Guys welcome to 21st century, ripstop works without any problems

-Tony Vilko-

I reply to you but is for everyone.
Ripstop is only psychological for small stuff. I am a rigger, and I had to pack stuff with big holes in it. Gaffers tape is better than anything for durability and pissing off your rigger. I just repaired a wing suit, a 3inch rip on the trailing edge. Victim said, absolutely no diff in flying.. So, tzhe bottom line is that Gaffers tape is way better to piss off your rigger. (I was a gaffer, My friends are gaffers so STFU)
Oh, By Gaffer I mean a Lighting Tech for video shoots.
If one is going to do a majore repair, in the field. Gaffers tape is the sh##. Duck tape and ripstop is for the birds.
And bring it on if you want to compare getting ripped off on ripstop over gaffers tape. Gaffers tape out performs ripstop in every parameter.
One more tip.
The color of the ripshite. It is very important that if you think the color is important, call for help now at www.ishouldntbebasejumping.com
Take care,
space,
ps :Hey maretus. this is not aimed at you and your pink ripstopp.

Hey Space,

can you maybe elaborate a bit on those parameters where gaffers tape outperforms ripstop? How would the performance of my field repairs be boosted if I would have used gaffers tape instead of the gay pink ripstop I have all over my canopy?

My bottom line is, use gaffers tape, ripstop, duct tape what ever you feel like. I just personally don't buy that theory that you shouldn't use tape at all because the adhesive will somehow magically destroy your canopy. A phenomenon that nobody has ever seen but still there are people that strongly believe it exists... :)

material strength in all dimensions, warp and weft. adhesiveness, Porosity or permeability which has no count in this minor repair. If you want to spend megamore for a no count repair, I will lick your canopy and kiss it better and give me the money. I do have an awesome industrial Bernina triple throw zigzag sewing machine in my bed room which does a bitchin straight stitch also. What does one want from a repair?
Bottom line is that if one can repair something with RP, It doesnt need repairing at all. Mickey Mouse pflasters/bandaids will do the same job making one feel better on the exit point. The canopy doesnt care.
If we go into rigging physics, check out the total surface area top and bottom and add the permeability factor and a 20cm rip assumiming that it was venting 100%, then ratiometric cfi (cubic feet per inchsquared) would be a great deal less than overall cfi than the entire canopy.
less than 1% most certainly.
I can get ya some numbers if anyone wants. I actually own a porosimeter but it doesnt work so well on f111 because f111 is like cheese cloth permeabilitywise It only counts in seconds not milliseconds.
Take care.
space.