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Hi guys,

So Im an experience WS BASE Jumper and I have been guiding my friends who are just getting into the sport. They seem to believe that I'm to cautious and conservative about their progression. So I just want to have a second opinion, and since every BASE jumper LOVES to give their .2 cents about what is wrong or right, I figured you guys could help me.

Overall my friends have.

More than 1.000 Skydives in 8 years
Less than 20 Slider down BASE Jumps in 1 year
More than 20 WS Jumps in 1 year.

We are planing to go to Europe for BASE jumps out of 2.000+ Ft Cliffs.

I have suggested that they should concentrate in tracking and terminal jumps, but they really want to WS BASE.

Where is the line? what you think is an appropriate progression?


Thanks

Medusa

Not any slider up Base jumps yet..and they wanna ws base? are you serious??

Well, they want to do some terminal tracking first, but in the same trip they want to start WS.

Just read this about starting ws base:
http://www.dropzone.com/...tail_page.cgi?ID=506

minimum 50 BASE jumps before starting ws base...

Or being a fatality isn't gonna make you cool! Slow down!

Slow them down...

so they did only 20 ws jumps in a year, whatever the wingsuit used, it's really not enough....
you don't know a wingsuit in 20 jumps, maybe if you have thousand WS jumps.....but it's not the case.
being current is the KEY!

only slider down... but from cliffs or bridges ???
no slider up???
they still exit arched or already head first and arms along the body side with steep angle????

well it's not enough for terminal cliffs jumping....
I mean in a real safety way of doing it,
and they still want to WS base...

please don't come to Europe to "try" but come when you are ready for it !

go step by step, too many peoples want to start WS base too early into their progression, looks what happened this days in Europe, one famous WS flyers go in, and 2 others as well in less than 2weeks....

Slow Down,

So why are you taking them with you on your trip?

Hi Medusa,

It's stupid! Basejump is legal in some european countries but this is not a reason to do anything or else the authorities prohibit. Thank you to respect the local people.
If you and your friends do not understand why it's a shame... I'm sorry about what will happen
Please do things in order, step by step.
Start with 100 jumps at terminal velocity, then 100 and then jumping trackingsuit and the wingsuit can start on a easy bigwall. This will give you more chance

If you do it for you, do it for us. It is not necessary to come kill you in our mountains and if you do not care about us, think of your families

Please, you and your friends read this
http://www.basejumper.com/.../gforum.cgi?forum=8;
http://www.blincmagazine.com/.../Fatality_Statistics
http://www.basefatalitylist.com/

I hope your friends are smart and they will listen

Hey Medusa, I feel that the lack of experience and currency in BASE jumping that your friends have is the most critical factor in their safety - I recently did my first few wingsuit jumps in Europe, and was very glad I waited until I had a few tracking and slider up jumps! I found exiting with arms trapped by your side is something to get used to for a start, as it adds pressure to an exit that really has to be nailed first, and every time (as I'm sure you well know).

hi medusa,

yeah, that´s the way it goes these times. i had a student which was really good and i took him from the very basics (packing, exit trainer, theorie, base ethics) to the bridge and further on to a terminal cliff where he did really good in tracking even without a tracksuit. after we finished the official part i found out, that he took a WS off a cliff in norway, attending a record multiple way... i wrote him a somehow really bad mail. he was honest and said, that he knows that he cheated on me, but that´s the way it is. he ordered allready a V3 (still the same beginning season!) is going to jump it out off the plane during winter and next season he wants to start proximity flying.

now he proudly posts vids of line twists and lucky landings or water landings where he almost drowns...

i know i did all my best to get him a nice and smooth start into the sport, also offered more advised jumping later on, but you can´t stop somebody who´s fully on and just doesn´t listen, no matter what you do. the question i ask myself is, if i would have been able to find out about his "plan" and motivation before i started teaching him. he´s 40+, a father and an experienced hangglider pilot. i wasn´t able at this stage but i DEFINITELY know, that i wouldn´t have him thought base jumping if i would have known from the begining.

you can still decide...

andY

Can you take them out to one of the big towers in your area and spend a few nights doing a bunch of terminal (tracking) slider up jumps?

You could even do their first WS jumps there. The towers aren't tall enough for "really fun" WS flight, but the are tall enough to learn the exit and initial flight, which is the important part from a safety standpoint.

I think you can get them up to speed before you take them to Europe.

They shouldn't even go to europe with less than 20 slider down jumps... And skydives don't mean shit...

Hey J, you should require that they read "Deep Survival" also.. great book, might help them slow down a bit.

 

Hey guys thanks for the great advice. We are all in the same page, it amazes me how newis perceive the sport. People getting into base think that we are trying to slow them down because we are to gay or afraid. Now days any idiot can get a wing suit and a base gear.

We can't do anything to prevent other people bad decisions, other than giving our sincere advice and share our experiences. Where I'm getting at is that we can inforce any "law" or being with them everytime. In base decision making comes from with in and the only person you can trust is you, once you leap from that cliff you are on your own, and if you don't have everything you need in you tool box, you will suffer the consequences.

I'm sure that their idea of ws is going to be dismiss as time comes, I just wanted to show them the reactions to their naive question, because this guys are not the exception, they are the rule. Their question represents the big majority of people who are getting into the sport.

They are planing in doing terminal jumps before the trip. I have been coaching them on tracking and they are solid good trackers, I know that if they stick with tracking and learning their terminal stuff they will be fine and they will have a good trip. 

Ws can wait, the mountains are not going anywhere.

For the people who have Medusa as a mentor, you are lucky, do what he suggests. One thing though.......don't let him near your girlfriends......

why would adding the elements of darkness and law breaking and less altitude be a preferable learning environment? that makes no sense to me.

Because you can do repeated training jumps in a much shorter time window.

As opposed to what? Legally riding a train and then walking 45 minutes in the swiss valley, to a legal day-lite jump?


You got keys to an elevator and a paid off security guard?

I think the A's offer a better wind profile, and rarely have significant outcroppings. they should allow higher safety for learning exit position.

I'd also think practicing at home offers many advantages. think in terms of having months to sort things out, thus no severe time constraints, and without the distractions travel provides.

why not prepare for the European adventure?

(as I don't wingsuit, I don't know the best way to train. I'm only guessing! )

45 minutes? Now-a-days it's 2 tram rides, and a 10 minute walk. And that's some people's 1st jump...

and bring your biggest wingsuit, for fucks sake.

Here, help for your crew. They will appreciate it.

http://www.basejumper.com/...ost=2930533;#2930533

The fucked up thing is no one respects how dangerous this shit really is anymore. Or even respects the legal sites by doing the neccessary prep.

More and more people are proving that a monkey can wingsut base jump. Great. The fucked up thing is getting away with something is a lot different than doing it repeatedly safely.... I hate being on exits with people I don't know now, or sitting at the Horner and hearing someone talking bout going out for their first wingsuit base jump on their V3..... Whatever happened to safe progression?

Shit, I've seen some people would rather spend money on go-pros than tracking gear.

_justin

Justing, you are a true master! thanks for your advice, I love the pointer you give people how to be Cool. I hope o see you in Europe this summer.

i'll actually throw my .02 in here, I was getting good with tracking exits, and doing tons of WS jumps at the DZ, and had a month in Europe planned with some pals. I didn't want to wait and do my first WS base jump months down the road in Italy, so i climbed a local tower with the WS...

The first time i took it with me the winds weren't favorable, so i just tracked with the WS in the stash bag, but the second time i climbed with the wingsuit i actually had good winds aloft, and a really nice flight, with a super high pull. That first WS base was solo, from 1500, night, and we don't have a working elevator, but such a memorable experience...

That being said, i did feel properly prepared for the task, as i had seen it on youtube... Then the europe trip went awesome as well!

At my FJC there were 5 of us. Day one we do our introductions in the morning before we head out to the potato do our first jump. I know everyone has their reasons for hucking their squishy bodies off of shit but some people are just retarded.

Introduce yourself, where you're from, how many skydives you've done and why you are getting into BASE....3 of the 5 stated simply that their goal was to WS BASE. Nothing was said about adventure or the thrill, adrenaline, excitement or danger. These corndick motherfuckers were only there to be cool and look like Jeb.

Fast forward 2 hours. In true douche fashion, retard #1 shows up with his brand new, all black gear, to include 2 goddamn gopros on his helmet. At his DZ they've been betting he goes in skydiving, just a matter of time.

Anyway, I kinda got off topic here. But what I was going to say is that some people might not have a great, meaningful reason to start WS BASE but some jerk-offs are simply downplaying the entire activity and trying to look cool on youtube.

So you're in it for the danger? Well you know that makes you just like Jeb.

I'm in it for the cock and the glory. Mostly the cock. Actually theres been zero glory and all cock this far.

I just got back from my first trip to Europe and honestly felt bad about what BASE Jumpers (as a whole) are doing to the Valley. It may be a "BASE paradise", but it was a paradise before parachutists got there and "our" version of paradise appears to have a whole lot of negativity and externalities associated with it.

I thought Brento was nice because it at least kept BASE more segregated and away from the locals, but then again I saw the least conservative jumping there than I've ever seen.

Thank god its hard to kill yourself BASE jumping or people would be going in left and right. Perhaps myself included. I've made some decisions that would have made a real mentor shake his head in disgust, but I do try and think of myself as conservative and quick to take anything but positive feedback as a big red flag. I guess thats all I can do.