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A little facebook convo i had earlier, this guy has maybe 100 jumps, still faceplants and when i blatently see him faceplant he will try to tell me he didnt. I'll withhold his name as i don't dislike him. i plan on making him read this and seeing some comments others make not that i think it will make a difference.

He says he has a rig, bought without consulting anyone just threw it together yet i know for a fact he can't even pack a sport main as i packed for him. I doubt he could even put a 3-ring together, his gear knowledge is that bad.

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Him - think you could show me some good towers?

Me - nope, im not doin any mentoring/advice giving/that stuff

Him - did't ask for your mentoring, I can take care of myself thanks. I just wanted to know some good spots

Me - thats kinda contradicting. dude people work hard to find these towers and jump them, through homework and ground work. Pople aren't going to willingly give away their spots.

Him - ok man, you don't want to tell me its kewl..·

Me- Just the way it is, not being a dick..

Him - I guess i'll have to do the home/ground work myself.I don't really think thats the way it is. You just don't want to tell me..

Me - you have no idea
see dude, you think you can just waltz into this sport and have info thrown at you? not the way it works at all. You have a handful of skydives, zero BASE experience, think you can handle yourself when you cant, i have seen you land a parachute.... you really think im gonna give away towers for you to die on and then i cant jump them anymore? not a chance.

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Fucking clueless. Absolutely clueless.

a number of years ago I have come in love with the term Entitlement generation.
now I officially change my position to NANNY GENERATION.

Sad.

PS I also notice a much higher occurrence of the term "spot" as opposed to "object". Before the only time I heard "spot" was from whuffos. I really think it's an indicative of the lack of doing any homework.

lack of doing any homework

They won't do it in college for a grade...

They won't do it for their own finances...

They won't do it for their own mortality...

Not One Person in my class could name
the Vice President of the United States.

IDIOCRACY is becoming a reality.

I had to Google the VP of USA (I am 100% serious. Apparently it's some white boy named Joe Biden). This information serves me no practical knowledge in life, nor does lack of endanger me.

apples to oranges Tom :)

It's no wonder more people don't die in this sport. I have limited BASE experience, but some of the things I have seen leave me scratching my head.

If you paid $1-2,000 for a skydiving AFF course, why wouldn't you spend $1000.00 for a BASE course? Most of the self-taught, or people that had a friend show them how to BASE jump leave me unimpressed with their skill, and or basic knowledge of BASE, and their decision making. I could be wrong, but I think that BASE is the last place to be cutting corners to save a buck. All I need is to avoid one trip to the ER to cover my $1000.00 BASE course or my $300.00 Han-Wags. My life is worth a lot more than the money I have spent on BASE.

Maybe your friend should read the BFL list a few times. How much will someone spend on your funeral if you go in?

I like the irony of this post, and it's nothing to do with you Frankie.

What a douche

I've been contacted by a similar minded individual, and it pisses me off so much that they feel entitled to jump. It took me a long time with loads of GC trips, lots of practice pack-jobs and endless reading of articles to learn. Yet some prick expects me to just teach him everything I know despite the fact that I told him I'm a newbie and I am not interested in teaching.

You people are sucky!

Do shit properly for fuck sakes

Because they are skydivers, and in skydiving, if you have money you can do whatever you want as fast as you want. People that get into skydiving fast and throw money around and find people that let them do what they want to do as soon as they want to think BASE is similar. It's not and many people cant wrap their heads around this.

i feel ya' man. it's a tough situation that rears its ugly head quite often. it's pretty easy to figure out who the "go to" guys are for a newbie, and also not too hard to just keep going around finding the next guy who will cave to his desires.

i usually tell people it's just a touchy subject and not to go around blabbing about wanting to jump. but if you expect to get in with a crew and do some jumps, you WILL have to pay your dues. even if that simply consists of hanging around and not being a jackass for some unspecified length of time. last thing i want to do is jump with an unskilled guy who also happens to be a complete social invalid. i think i have a fair amount of knowledge and experience to share, but i'm not gonna just hand it off to any moron because he thinks he's entitled to it.

]


Bingo!

"Most of the self-taught, or people that had a friend show them how to BASE jump leave me unimpressed with their skill, and or basic knowledge of BASE, and their decision making."

I disagree almost completely with that dude. Some of the best jumpers were taught by locals, the way it was done before base courses even existed. Just because you take a base course does not mean that you will have great decision making skills, or any skills in general.

+1

having your teacher/mentor locally available all the time is priceless.

+11111

Thanks for fixing that other post...thought the same thing. Taking a course doesn't necessarily teach all of the skills required for BASE...in fact I have had friends take courses that asked themselves why they didn't save thier money and learn from other jumpers with the appropriate knowledge. Courses don't necessarily teach good judgement either...that is something we have or get throughout experience and practical application. (Hopefully while staying injury/accident free...)

We all agree the BEST Would be to have tons
of experience skydiving, dealing with problems,
packing a variety of containers/canopies, gear
knowledge, rigging, assembling, line continuity,
reading weather, oh and being able to stand up
a landing at least a few times in a row at a DZ.

THEN do a few days of focused training/jumping
at a forgiving object, be it with a friend or mentor,
but someone very experienced.

RETURN home and continue jumping the exact
same gear, pack job, and deployment methods
from easier local antennas under the supervision
of an experienced friend/mentor etc. for a while.

However, in this case, the guy can't stand up a
landing and refuses to even study the subject.

At least first jump courses offer some level of consistency. There are a lot of base jumpers out there who really should not be teaching anyone, yet do anyway. If you have a great mentor who is willing to take you under his wing, then I agree that is far more valuable long term than a FJC.

I think the best way to do it is to become close with a "mentor" like figure who is very experienced, AND do a FJC. That way they can get to experience some different opinions, make a bunch of jumps at an easy object, then come back to a mentor to help you through the next part of your journey.

Unless you take an ApexBASE course. They instill all that.

I cant help but feel taking a BASE course is like getting your GED instead of going to High School. Teach me how to base jump in 3 days. Right.

I agree completely Slambo. I think that "BASE Courses" are a big part of the problem and contribute to more of these type of jumpers coming out of the woodwork. They are an easy solution for people who have a bit of money to spend and a free weekend. They are for those people who don't feel like spending the time necessary to learn properly. It's like "Hey, nobody you know will teach you how to jump! No Problem, just bring some money and we'll teach you everything you need to know."

but.... Whatever. Good for whomever is making money in this sport. Why the hell not? We're all fucked anyway.

To add what others have said, Im also a fan of finding a local (or somewhat local) mentor for long term one-on-one coaching/mentoring/teaching whatevery u want to call it. Not to bash on any manufacture or individual running FJCs but here in the States where do most of them happen.....Perrine right? What does a FJC at the bridge really teach you: how to pack, how to exit, how to land (wait you better fuckin know how to do that already )how to assess winds/weather conditions AT THAT OBJECT, and other "ethical standards" for the sport in general. What I don't like about Perrine FJCs is when the newbie returns home. What about gaining access or assesing the winds at the local 400 ft. guyed A, landing areas, obstructions, escape route, emergancy plans FOR THAT OBJECT, ect. ect. ect. No way a FJC can teach that. Said newbie is best to find more exp. local jumpers and jump with them.........that is happening less and less now a days! A FJC is an easy, quick way with someone who has a pocket full of fiber to say "I'm now a BASE jumper cant wait to jump again"?!?!

To the OP, good on you for not giving in and giving away you prized possesions.

As someone with no BASE experience from this younger generation you are referring too I feel I should chime in. First I somewhat agree with you, my generation is filled with people who have a very small grip on reality. Their parents raised them in a way where they believe they are entitled to live their lives without much respect for patience or procedure. However, there are still young people out there who have been raised on the premise that you have to work hard for everything you want in life, take no shortcuts, respect and learn from the one's who laid the tracks ahead of you.

My first impressions of BASE was from a hiking trip where local jumpers were making legal, slider down jumps on a popular object. Since then I wanted to know more about the sport so I've been reading all the information I can find and have taken up skydiving. Maybe after my canopy skills are perfected I will try to get in and ground crew for some local jumpers, maybe after that I will take a FJC. Then maybe if I'm skilled enough I'll return to seek mentoring from experienced jumpers, that is if they think I'm worth teaching.

Am I eager to jump? Well eventually I want to jump, but not until I'm ready. I'm sure there are other younger people interested in the sport who are also patient and don't want to be known as the whuffo who bounced and ruined object insert name here. You just probably don't hear from these people until they have the skills and experience required.

Just my 0.000000000002 cents

Wow. Where to start.

Dear New Guy,

I mean no disrespect toward you and though it may not seem like it, neither does anyone else here. It's hard to understand until you have been doing it for a while but the BASE community regularly encounters people who are as excited as you about making their first BASE jumps but show what seems a lack of respect for an activity that can get them seriously injured, killed, arrested, or put them or someone else in the position of having to clean up an ugly mess.

We never really know how to handle it because from our perspective, we are trying to save *your* life and *our* ability to keep jumping objects that we value highly, but you are giving us the impression that what we are saying doesn't matter to you. Whether you mean it that way or not, it comes across to us as mind-blowing arrogance and or stupidity.

To us, BASE is not MTV, it's not youtube or TV land. It's as real as it gets and we live or die by the decisions we make. When we teach someone new, *they* live or die by the decisions we make.

Actually, that view is probably a little too romanticized. It's not just life or death. I am retired from BASE but when I was active, I never worried much about dying. I worried a lot more about getting really mangled and having to live the rest of my life with it. I worried about doing the wrong thing and getting someone I cared about hurt or killed. I worried about getting arrested and losing a career I worked very hard to get.

The lessons learned in BASE have cost us dearly and we have seen history repeat itself when people much like you decided to go it alone and not listen to those of us who have gone down that path before.

Our community includes jumpers who *did* go it alone and survived. Every one of those jumpers will all tell you to not do what they did.

You can look at PikeyBASE as an obstacle to your entry into the BASE community, or you can say something like, "Hey Pikey, I think we got off to a bad start. Let's try it again. What do I need to do to get ready to learn to BASE jump?". The choice is yours.

Maybe it will work or maybe not, but I'm guessing that showing some respect for him and the sport will give you a decent chance. He deserves your respect. He is, after all, trying to keep you alive.

Best of luck.

Walt, BASE 335

Well said......agreed with what you have to say. There are people like yourself who sit in the back of the class and keep to themselves. They listen and observe quitely. When the time comes they ask Q, they imitate, and most importantly they THINK. They do all this in a respectful pleasant manner.

I believe most referenced in this thread are the dumbshits that come on here asking how to get into BASE cause they saw a "cool squirrel suit BASE jump on Youtube" OR the dumbshits one may encounter at the DZ with 40 skydives and they want you to teach them everything there is to know cause they think BASE is cool and they wanna be cool.

Keep up the good work you're one of the few who actually go about it in a sensible way.

Walt, no shit! Dr. Thrill and I learned most of our beginner BASE chops from reading those online tips of yours from back in the mid-90's. Excellent reading.

Perhaps show him this:

http://www.blincmagazine.com/...ump-please-read-172/

Paul admitted: I had to Google the VP of USA

And said: apples to oranges Tom :)

Wrong.

IF one wants to BASE jump her or she should
invest the time, energy, focus, and money to
learn the relevant information that will help
keep them from injury/death; i.e. HOMEWORK

IF one is enrolled in college studying business
then he or she should pay attention to who is
in charge of Fiscal and Monetary Policies.

IF one wants to run a grow house making the
best organic, hydroponic, stinky bud then he
or she should research indoor agriculture.

I am ignorant of which pre-school in our town
is the best, but that is a rational choice since
I do not have kids, so it does not affect me.

My point: The TWIT Generation refuses to
do their homework, regardless of the subject!

 

I think regardless of all the chit chat in-between, it is made QUITE clear what newbies need to do; go to their dropzones and get personally involved with base crews to get accepted. How many of you guys actually get approached by noobs face to face who are lookin to get into this sport vice on the Internet? I'll bet 3/4 of the peeps who are newbies that ask for advice online don't really ever make a base jump. I could be wrong tho. Nothing here should be taken as gospel, help should be earned in the field through hard work and networking. I use this website as a tool to ask opinions on technical opinions, to study injuries and fatalities, and to meet other people who are down to drink some brews, maybe let me ground crew, and hopefully eventually jump on their turf

I know there are some seasoned jumpers here with lots of experience and I appreciate you guys. Of newbies are getting scared off from these conversations, then good. This is not the place to be seeking a way in.......your dz is

hey, good post.

Blitzkrieg said it well - many jumpers have plenty of knowledge, but one has to earn the the right for that knowledge to be shared with them. Unfortunately too many think that plopping down the $1K for a FJC is akin the money they pay for AFF, and after the 3 days of jumping the Perrine they are experts. Or worse yet, the ones that feel they "earned" the right to BASE jump just because they have made a few skydives. In reality no one can be prevented from BASE jumping, but experienced jumpers sure don't have an obligation to anyne but themselves. The sport is very much about the old educating the young, as it is about young respecting the old and the traditions.

Terse tone ? Fuck it, better to get someone offended than get them killed :(

As what Euroguy has said - hell ya, there still are plenty of people who try to enter the sport the "right way" - build their knowledge, their skill, get questions answered, etc. Those are the ones who are willing to pull an all-nighter with you, drive you to different objects and ask questions.

It's just sad when you hear of people that just want to get "shown the jump spots" and know that "they can handle it".

"And its the jumpers that have made the 200 skydives or more and made a course that will put you down because they think their approach is the right way and no other way will cut it. And maybe because they think that youd be more hardcore then them... "

Thats your lack of experience in the sport talking right there dude. And alot of the best dudes in the sport were taught by others also. Its a fact.

I DO feel that people with a background of sports such as freeskiing, moto, etc have somewhat of an easier time picking up the sport. Mindset, quick thinking, staying calm...all transfer over to base jumping skills that will help for sure.

You gotta realize, though, that you learn alot more than you think when you have a good dude teaching and helping you. You just dont realize it because you are teaching yourself.

But to each his own. I never took a course, I just had rad friends that helped teach me.

 

Exactly +1

think again about the experienced jumpers. I doubt a relatively low timer can ask to tag along to Baffin! the help you get tends to be linked to your skill. it IS true that some of the more experienced jumpers have more confidence when sharing information. many even believe growing BASE will benefit everyone.

I personally think 200 skydives is really a lousy measure, and probably far too lenient for most. then again, it's enough to jump the Potato Bridge.

newbies come from a protective skydiving environment. it's far from the realities of BASE. arrest, injuries, death, confiscation of gear, etc. are common in BASE, but not skydiving. (of course, the BASE videos rarely show the dark side.)

if someone gets intimidated by posts here, I suspect they are not prepared for the harsh realities of BASE.

many average jumpers (including myself) view easy access to BASE as the road to getting people hurt. the people making discouraging posts might be more concerned about the newbie's health than the newbie! (plus youth tend to have a rebellious, anti-authority streak...)

Sure, exits with cliff diving experience if you mean aerials. But I doubt you are jumping off large cliffs and belly flopping, unless thats how you like to practice. Although exiting in a stand is super fun too.

I started jumping with less than 200 jumps and I didnt get shit from anyone.
And you are saying that a less experienced skydiver could land a canopy better than a more experienced skydiver?

And I still feel that shit everyday

I agree with Halfpastniner. An FJC and a good local mentor is a great way to start. Along with this the newby should read The Great Book of BASE and spend hours on this site listening to the advice of all you guys and learning from the experiences posted. Most everything in base is subject to opinion, so learn lots and piece it all together to make your own decision. That's what we've all done. The thing that really matters in this situation is this guy doesn't have the right attitude or personality, so none of us would want to jump with him, let alone give him the opportunity to burn our "spots" down. Dude needs an attitude adjustment and some humility, then he can think about jumping.

All the newbies know thats no real. those pics have been photoshopped,,, you cant get hurt when ya on holidays

Next thing you know he will be climbing an AM tower and landing in a cemetery.

I have to say... I think you and a lot of people, are succumbing to the age superiority mind set(back in my day!). I am sure it is true that you teach a lot young people who have a very entitled mind set and are unwilling to work for anything... But, I observe people of every age that are exactly the same. Ignorant, lazy, unwilling to learn anything new. And I would say, just as many as the next generation.
Unfortunately American society does not, and has not valued flexibilty and critical thinking skills.
It's easy to point the finger at young people... And not look at ourselves and people our age and older.

Edit: I too find it very discouraging when people ask me to get into BASE the "easy way. To all the prospective jumpers- BASE is a lot of work, effort, money, and takes time. If you are not patient and willing to listen(as in realize you don't know shit, stop talking and start hearing. People will be much more willing to teach you if your not blindly arrogant) and learn from those who procede you, do everyone a favor and go do something else...

youth gets a bad rap here principally (imho) because they dominate the list of people wanting to BASE.

unbridled enthusiasm helps achieve many goals, but I don't think BASE is one of them.

unbridled base jumping sounds likely to make you bounce ;-P

You have a good point, which I have asked of
myself, friends, fellow teachers, etc.

How much of the equation is I am almost 40 AND
how much is it that the masses have actually gone
from rude & dull to down right stupid & annoying??

I am willing to cop to getting old, impatient, and
being a luddite BUT there is still something to my
idea that people who cross the center line while
driving to text LOL should be beaten to death.

Mike Judge said it best --> Idiocracy

That movie is sweet, and scary... I pretty much think we are all arrogant idiots to some degree(myself included), and humans have been for a long time. Until we start to look around and acknowledge how little we know and stop living on faith and dogma we won't progress as a species...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVKaemIz860

Some pretty god lyrics in this song!!

its what plants crave

Or hit a bridge.

Is this anybody I know, or somebody that has shown up since last summer ?