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I was talking with a work mate, about self rescue or rescue without involving the law. We also discussed about bulk and weight when jumping and what would be easiest.

With just a small nut and bolt and a roll of dental floss, there is a good chance you can get your arse out of a shitty situation if you get hung up on a wire, cliff face, or tree. (depending on injury status)
You can connect the dental floss to the bolt and lower it to your mate on the ground (the bolt is there for lowering weight only so anything will do) he can then tie a rope to the floss and you can pull it back up, secure it and then pass any other gear you need up to perform a self rescue or set it up for your mate to come rescue you. It would obviously depend on how high up you were stuck but it may just save you getting busted by the C@nt rangers or coppers.
i haven't tried this out as yet but i thought i would share it to hear peoples thoughts on this and any other simple techniques they may have.
no point using it in the valley though, Switzerland would be sold out of floss in a week

Thoughts please!
Douggs

You can advertise Douggs survivor kit on this page
http://www.facebook.com/basestore?ref=ts

Watta fuck are you doing in a tree and at a cliff wall in the first place? That is so old shit news, that it should not happen anymore right?

http://www.basejumper.com/Articles/Gear/BASE_Accessories_678.html

ah ha!!! cheers OuttaBounZ. i should have learnt to read before posting something. a good refresher for people anyway i guess.

434 you sure do post a lot for a old whuffo!! :)

Whuffo is some skydiving terms right?

What would MacGyver do?

good refresher, agreed.

I was chatting to one of the guys here about making up a self rescue kit, just in case we get hung up on our local A's wires.

Apparently you can get long lengths of strong but light rope from hong kong.
I'll try get a link for you fellows, or tony if you read this can you help out bro

Consider attaching the dropped end of the floss to a small, on cell, penlight. Would work as a weight and help GC located the line at night.

The floss could be used as the retrieval cord for the pull-down rappel rope after the rescue is accomplished.

What is the longest length of floss you've seen?

I got 90yrds as the biggest in SA

really? You have floss that will pull 60+ meters of rope up through an anchor and out? Must be Chuck Norris dental floss, sure isn't oral B.

Edit: And I mean once you're on the ground. There can be alot of friction and drag pulling a rope back through an anchor from the bottom. I'm going to test this. And the pen light is a great idea if this whole thing isn't just bullshit.

I did not realize that all rescue attempts were 60+ meters.

Will the dental floss be strong enough to pull 60+ meters of rope up to the jumper?

I do not know the tensile strength of dental floss.

Consider having cypress loop material in the rescue kit, 200' roll. 60 meters approx. 196'

Okay, for a breaking strength I got just under 5 lbs for 3ft of floss. Doubled up it was closer to 16 lbs, also for 3 feet. It pulled one end of rope up to my second story window but I'm only 15 feet high. I'd say that being that 6mm rope (6mm because I'd slowly repel on that if I had to being that it's static strength is over 7kn) is light and compact anyway, if you really think that you may fuck things up bad enough to need it, then just carry the rope rolled in front of you and maybe a few biners and slings in your pocket. I'm leaving the dental floss for the bathroom and south beach.

Thoughts? (Not that anybody really cares)

Even if you have your dental floss on you. How often has your groundcrew 60+ m of rope.

You will have to provide a groundcrew package anyway. So add a rope delivery system to the climbing gear. A bow and arrow with a fishing line add on might do, at least for tree landings.

I have some 3 mm rope in the legpouch , it gets a rope up a tree and in an emergency will bring out of a medium tree.

i have a tree kit in my truck... (harness, saws, rope, etc.)

if you need a rope up high, a throwline works wonders:

http://www.sherrilltree.com/...w-Weight-Combination

Skip the fishing line add on and just shoot the cunt with the bow and arrow and give him another reason not to land in the fucking trees

I also have my treekit with me, but I had problems with the throwline. I hope my aim is better with a bow.

Any higher than 100ft or so, and a tard is always available as a self rescue option. Lower than that, a small roll of 18lb test (or so) fishing line should do the trick. Provided you have a friend with a rope and the ability to tie a knot. Hauling fishing line is not so nice on the hands, though.

I just had a mental image of one of my buddies aiming up a bow and arrow at me while im hanging in a tree.

every jumper knows that a crossbow is essential for self rescue.

Quote "Skip the fishing line add on and just shoot the cunt with the bow and arrow and give him another reason not to land in the fucking trees"

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Excellent!

I have some real world experience regarding self rescue from guy wires. A long rope is going to be your best friend. Everything else is optional. I would never go to an A again without a rope. It was luck that I had one when we needed it. When I say "we", I really mean, "I".

Regarding the dental floss - it might be useful on an A. Depends on how far the person is from the A. In my case, the tail of the rope was thrown from higher than where I was, and I was able to catch it. But I could see some cases where pulling a rope up would be better. I would imagine the floss would be strong enough to pull up twine, and that twine might be strong enough to pull up a rope. I just think the rope would be too heavy for floss... Going to try it!

That sucks, but happy to hear you got out of it.

How and what did you attach the rope to? did you also use a belay device?

I also have a throw line with a 2mm cord in my kit.
I think you could haul 60 m of that cord up with the dental floss, and then with the 2 mm cord haul up a real rope.

I still think shooting at a dangling target is more fun.

How did you fix the rope to the guy wire?
Did you leave it there?

I forgot if I posted the entire story elsewhere, it has been a few years. But long story short. My friend (who jumped before me) grabbed the rope and climbed the antenna. He threw the rope to me. We tied off the end about 40 feet above me on the A, and the other end (mid-rope) to my harness. That way if the canopy slipped off, I would have a swing into the A, not a plummet to the ground. We tied it about 40 feet up so the swing would be slower should I swing into the A. Once that safety was tied, we could take some addtional risks to make the evenutal fall into the A safer. FYI, the A was covered in ice and the way the canopy was on the A, even the best climber would have struggled to climb the lines and somehow grab the wire as the canopy covered about 10 feet of the wire above my head and only one or two lines were holding my weight. Plus, I am not that good. And since I had no other equipment other than a rope too short to get to the ground, and my home was hours away, and the ACE hardware store was closed, a rope fall into the A was pretty much the only non-fire department option.

Because I had a 180 on deployment and hit the wire while turning on rears, I was only about 30 feet from the A.

I threw the remaining rope back to the A, the other jumper grabbed it. We used it to pull me closer to the A, so my canopy was no longer above me, but to the side of me and almost below me. The purpose was to get me closer to the A for the next step.

I cut away one side of my canopy so I could turn my body towards the A. Then I carefully cut away the other side and took the fall into the A. The rope was tied off twice so it was more redundant than a rock climbing fall on a single rope, but still I had no clue how fast I would swing and if the first rope failed that was tied above me, the secondary fall on the other rope would have been hard since it was tied much lower. Only injury was a metal plate to my balls and sweaty skin that immediately froze to the A. The other jumper's hand, due to a lost glove, suffered frostbite.

Because it was well below freezing and at night, the cold blood previously cut off in my legs by my harness suddenly rushed to my body. The way I was tied off was against the angles in which a harness is comfortable, so the straps dug into my body all over the place cutting off circulation. I lost a lot of control of body movement due to hypothermia type issues, but was able to climb down, but could barely walk until I warmed up. By barely walk, I mean the land-owner who came to watch us asked me if I was so happy to be on the ground I was kissing it. I informed him that kissing the ground was completely unintentional and I was going to be crawling to my car. I warmed up in his car instead. This is something to remember if you ever rescue someone hanging from a harness for a while - the blood flow in their legs could be cut off and cause issues should it rush back into their body cold.

So then we went back hours later and got the canopy with a very big rescue pulley and some good old fashion rigging work.

Using that pulley and learning about the physics of rope rescue on an A - I designed what I felt was the perfect rescue kit for "the next time"...

1) A large pulley that can clip on a wire available from rigging suppliers.

2) A short rope (about twice the length of the lineset on a canopy) to hook to that pulley to drop to the jumper.

3) A longer rope to tie to the pulley to be able to belay the pulley down the wire to the jumper, and eventually be able to pull the jumper up the wire to the A.

Procedure:

1) Install pulley on wire, lower to jumper with rope.

2) Jumper ties to rope dangling from pulley.

3) Jumper cuts away.

4) Rescuer has the rope tied to their harness and down-climbs the A using their own weight to pull the pulley with jumper up the wire. Depending on the type of materials to make the A (round pipes vs angle iron) - a second pulley might be required at the A so the rope can take the bend friction free. If the guy wire is at a shallow angle, they might not need to downclimb, although downclimbing seemed to work very well.

5) Once the jumper is pulled back to the A, the jumper climbs back up the A to the wire and pulley, reties off to the pulley, and is lowered back to their canopy. Retrieves canopy, repeat procedures to get them back to the A.

If the jumper is not hurt, and is physically able, they can climb the rope to the pulley on the wire and get their canopy off without being pulled back to the A. Perhaps you equip that rope with hardware to allow a rope ascend. This is not part of my plan because getting the canopy off is not nearly as important as getting the jumper off, and climbing a rope suspended from a guy wire has risks.

P.S. The pulley system has been fully tested as we used it and procedures very similar to this to retrieve my canopy. If I had it on site when I jumped, I would not have had to take a fall into the A.

Great post, thanks for sharing. That plan is very similar to what we have discussed in our crew. I always have 60m rope and a steadily growing amount of climbing gear in my car when we jump. My next purchase will need to be a pulley! How big of a pulley do you need to fit around a fat guy wire?

Nice work, great insights fo me.

My emergency kit is growing in weight and size, I have a pulley in it, but that is only one for ropes up to 13 mm.
What kind of pulley do you have in your kit?

As I understand you wouldn´t have been able to secure yourself in case your canopy slipped of the wire, so your buddy should better be fast, skilled and in posession of the car keys.

On a tree landing I try to secure myself first, try to retrieve the canopy and then climb down. That is not an option on an A.

i'm not familiar with guy wire diameters, but as the wires are probably steel cables the pulleys sheaves should be made of steal rather than aluminium, so it won't get damaged while hauling.

you could also use a FB-Bandklemmknoten (sorry don't know the english name) for climbing up or down the guy wire (and yes according to wiki it's also usable on steel cables..) wouldn't be my prefered method though.

I thought of a prusik knot for securing myself and climbing up or down the wire. This advanced version is without doubt better, if you have a sling with you.
You still have to be able to reach the wire and tie the knot, that will be very difficult.

Still I am not sure how much damage a rope or sling can take while sliding slowly on a steel cable.

1) My rule has been: Car keys ALWAYS stay at the car in a hiding spot everyone knows about. I can list about 100+ reasons why having keys with you could suck (such as having them in your pocket while dangling from a guy wire, or having to carry a friend out of a legal bridge after they broke their leg and having your keys with you such that the people on the bridge can't bring your car down to the river.)

2) Your question about the pulley... It is owned by someone else locally, I can get more info. I tried googling it with little luck, although on Petzl's professional website I found a custom device designed for skilift rescue that is a new product I think looks pretty cool.

3) Regarding climbing the lines and/or self rescue (with absolutely no help from a friend). In my case, it would have been next to impossible. I first hit the wire inches above my head, then the lines slid down the wire until the canopy finally caught. I remember one or two lines from each riser being tight and the rest being loose. The lines that were holding my weight got wider apart as they went up to the wire, as if the canopy was still flying, and the canopy was about 70% of it's inflated width bunched up on the wire covering the wire.

To climb the lines to the wire, I would have had to pick one line and climb it as if I tried to climb more than one they would have been too far apart on the A. Then when I got to the wire, I would have had to somehow work with fabric dangling a few feet down in all sorts of tangled mess from the wire.

I admit, I am not that physically able to pull off a climbing stunt like this, but I honestly think only the top 0.1% of all people on this planet could have handled the type of climbing it would have taken - and even then, the risk of putting all your weight on one line held by friction and dynamically loading it by climbing, then grabbing, moving or manipulating the fabric that was the only thing providing the friction, would have been very high. It took less than 10 seconds to remove the canopy once weight was off, it was not held by much.

Further, should the canopy have come off in a premature release, hanging under it evenly would be best. I looked up and thought, "there is a very good chance this thing will fly again if it comes off". I am pretty darn sure it would have at least kept me under terminal velocity, even if I spun into the ground. Climbing the lines would have caused me to be in a ball of fabric and almost certain death should it come loose.

So all that being said - I personally believe you NEED a friend who can help you on site. I would never do a solo again (my jump prior to this jump was a solo with telephone-crew I called moments before jumping, not ground crew.)

I agree, there are some other options should you have ropes on you that might allow a self rescue. But if you design such a system, don't assume you will be able to climb the canopy lines to get to the guy wire, as I know in at least my case, this would have been a very poor decision.

I'll preface this with the comment that I have never self rescued off of a guy wire.

What I dont understand is why you would want to haul the jumper up given the requirement of additional gear (pullys) and requisite time.

Would it not be much easier to lower out once affixed to the structure above? Using your example, you affixed the rope to the structure 40 feet above you and in doing so were worried about the swing into the A. Why not just rappel the excess rope looped around the guy wire so that its not a swing but a slow lowering of yourself back to the A. Its what aid climbers do to avoid swings. All gear is retreivable and requires nothing but rope and a rappel device (and a munter hitch or hip belay could even remove the necessity of a belay device).

I think this link is a repost, but I thought it would be suited here Stuck on a wire, interview with the rescue team

If you put the rope over the wire, then loaded it, it would simply slide back up the wire, all the way to the anchor.

You could do without the pulley (at the structure) by simply running the rope over a round ladder rung before tying off to the other jumper.

If the second jumper were unconcious, or you think they might be unable to grab/hold onto the structure once you got them there, tie a fig8 on a bight 15feet from the end of the rope, and run your chest strap through it.
this can be your "tie in"

(this is also assuming you dont have a biner, be warned this is a last-ditch effort requiring a calm mind, and fatal if your chest strap fails. Any riggers want to comment on the load bearing ability of a chest strap in that direction?)

when you get your dead weight (unconcious friend ) to the structure, you then have 15ft of rope available to tie your buddy off with. tie off as close to your chest strap as possible, to keep your friend close to the structure.
then,climb up slowly/remove your bodyweight until the anchor you just tied is holding the weight.
now you can undo your cheststrap and climb up to your non-heading adujusting friend, and go from there.

I personally believe a basic knowledge of ascending and descending rope should be part of every basejumpers skillset.

I think your post was directed towards me?

1) The pully is not really to haul anyone UP, but more of an ACROSS the guywire to the A.

2) If at the time I had any hardware OTHER than a single rope that was not even rated for climbing but instead I use at work for lifting stuff to roofs, I might have considered a repel. I got off the A with a 100' home-depot rope and a few knots. My nice ropes were at home. However, your theory of "not just rappel the excess rope looped around the guy wire" requires two tidbits of logistics: 1) Getting it looped on the guy wire physically somewhere above the jumper. 2) The canopy not being on a large section of the guy wire immediately overhead such that looping a rope does not get tangled in, or even worse, dislodge a canopy. In retrospect I like your idea given the right hardware and the right circumstances. But how would you get the canopy if you have no way to go back out on the wire? No super-duper-cool self rescue leaves a canopy on the wire.

My thought was to lower back to the antenna not the ground, which would not require the rope being above you and anywhere near your canopy. Basically the concept is to lower yourself sideways (like a pendulum) as you hang from the rope above.

BUT


Undoubtedly! Why should getting hung up on a wire preclude you from pulling off a super awesome ninja style getaway...

Although when things go pear shaped, I have been known to save my ass first and come back for the gear later. Then again, I havnt yet earned my ninja badge from the brownies :)