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Has anybody used the seven as a primarily slider down canopy? If so how does it perform? I was looking at getting an OSP, but seeing as I am also ordering a Perigee II, I decided I might as well get everything from the same place.

Cheers
Richard

the seven kicks ass for slidrdown, super consistent openings and perfect flare point. i use mine for both low and very HIGH objects.

perigee pro is better too, but thats just me.

Ive used mine a lot for slider up and down, and I actually like the ZP option for slider down. Either way its open fast, just probably personal preference. Lowest freefall I have on one is about 220, lowest jump overall 160

I'm in exactly the same situation. My Perigee II/BJ280 rig went missing at ISC NY and I've got to replace it.

Dwain (who I never met) wrote many years ago:

"If your goal in BASE is to minimize the risk of injury as much as possible by having the best possible equipment, then do not purchase a canopy without bottom skin vents. Un-vented canopies require much more skill to successfully deal with an off heading close to the wall (this scenario happens to everyone eventually). Also the cell pressurization speeds on un-vented canopies are more variable making jumps from very low objects more of a gamble."

My BJ was excellent in that it gave me crisp on-heading deployments at all altitudes however I prefer to use updated technology. I’m told the Seven produces consistent on heading openings, is easier to pack, less bulk etc. I like the sound of all this but are the openings really consistent enough for repeated sub 250 jumps?

John

I have just ordered a OSP and know a few people who already jump them.

I have heard nothing but praise. I have also been to the factory and spoken with Stane and the OSP was designed specifically from the grass routes up for Slider down.

Have you also looked at the ZAK2 container? ZAK2+OSP looks like a mega sweet slider down setup.

Cheers for the input, I have made my choice on what I am getting.

What did you decide?



John

I'm curious too. Ive heard nothing but good things about the Seven. I am considering getting one as well because I think I could fit a larger size canopy in my current container. I really want to hear from someone who has one that it flies as well as they say. I jump an unvented canopy now; so being lame, new, and uneducated it's hard to upgrade without getting vents.

The Seven is a great canopy but it's controlling it initially is kind of strange. I would recommend some skydives, etc on it to figure it out. It really is a strange canopy.

OSP for UK jumping........just my humble opinion.

+1

Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I'm getting the OSP from Morpheus and the Perigee II.

I personally like Asylums products and have used the PII (Velcro) for most of my jumps including ITW tracking jumps. However you need to keep in mind that Atair measure their canopies differently i.e. the OSP 260 sq ft is equivalent to a 282 sq ft PIA measured canopy. Thus if you order a container from another manufacturer you will need to order it one size larger. I’ve had some back & forth’s with Kathy on this but it’s a fact and you can look it up on their web site.

Secondly, Morpheus are now making an innovative, reversible flap, velcro rig by name Genesis and it looks and sounds superb so why not get that and be assured that your canopy and container will fit perfectly.

John

+1

I was contemplating about getting the Genesis. Plus the package deal she offers is a very good Price. I just preferred the look of the Asylum Container, and assumed if I told them it was to fit a 285 OSP they would know the sizing, so thanks for pointing that out. Factoring up the positives and negatives, the best combination would be to get the Genesis/OSP package deal.

What do you mean strange? Ive put about 400 jumps on 7s from the first prototypes to current models and numerous on the feather which is basically the same airfoil, never found anything strange about it. It does have a faster forward speed when coming out of deep brakes to full flight, but you never really have to go back to full flight to get a powerful flare.

I really rate the osp and troll mdv (osp for UK), I've got around 160 jumps on each. But I haven't jumped the seven so can't comment.

I e-mailed marty and asked what he'd choose to jump for a low slider-down freefall cliff with a tight LA between the Blackjack & the Seven - his reply was he wouldn't hesitate to jump either but would choose the seven (with zp) by preference.

I am interested to try the seven. But I would also like to see it flown directly into a wall alongside something vented like the osp to see if the undercut nose really is as effective as vents in that situation (any volunteers??).

I'm not yet convinced by what I've heard and would feel more comfortable with vents with the type of jumps I do so I'm currently favouring another osp with its crisp openings and sweet deep braked flight when I buy my next canopy.

You asked a manufacturer if he would prefer his own product or a competitor's and he said he'd prefer his own? I'm shocked.

Perhaps we ought to fire off an email to Todd and ask him if he prefers the Flik or the Troll?

Hate to piss on your parade but I thought asylum made both Seven and Black Jack?

???

Consolidated Rigging makes the Blackjack and Ace canopies (actually PD makes them under contract).

Asylum makes the Seven, which is a competing product (actually one of the paraglider manufacturers--Ozone, maybe?--makes them under contract).

I am a dealer for both Asylum and Consolidated Rigging. Asylum is also a dealer for Consolidated Rigging, although, since the release of the Seven, Asylum has mostly steered their customers toward that canopy (for obvious reasons). There are other companies that manufacture harness/container systems and are dealers for canopy manufacturers (Bad Seed, for example, is a dealer for Consolidated Rigging as well as Apex canopies).

I suggest you send an email (support@crmojo.com) to Consolidated Rigging, or call them (+1 316 558 8643) if you are not clear on their product line or their relationship with other manufacturers and dealers.

You forgot to add "I hate to piss on your parade" at the start of your sentence I thought CR was part of Asylum and so BJ and seven were under the same company. Cheers for clearing that up.

As an American, I'd have to rain on your parade.

Someone really needs to teach you dudes from the UK to speak proper english.

Asylum was created when Martin Tilley purchased a substantial portion of the business assets of Consolidated Rigging. Those assets included sewing machines, rig designs and business materials. Martin took these things and created his own company, Asylum Designs, starting out primarily with the manufacture of the (previously Consolidated Rigging) Perigee (Classic, II and Pro) harness and container systems and associated accessories (pilot chutes, stash bags, risers, etc).

The only portion of the business which was retained by Consolidated Rigging was the canopy sales (for the Mojo, Ace, Blackjack and Tektite canopies, although the only two still available at present are the Ace and Blackjack).

Since that time, Asylum has continued to develop additional products (notably the Seven and the Toxic series of pilot chutes) of their own, as well as improving and refining some of the old CR designs. Asylum's stash bag, for example, is an incredible improvement over the old CR stash bags.

In a business sense, you might think of Asylum as originally a "spin off" of CR, although over time things have changed such that the two companies have entered direct competition in the canopy market.

I would like to respond with a witty remark, but unfortunately my brain is coming up with empty. However I will ask this. Why did CR sell off most of its assets, and just retain the Canopy sales, yet haven't designed a new canopy? Surely with the seven, OSP etc coming out, less and less people are going to be buying a BJ or even ACE. Comments on this thread alone have suggested it is dated equipment and they would like something newer. I will let you ponder over that one ;)

Thanks for the explanation - it's hard for us Europeans to know what goes on in these 'uber obscure' regions ;-)

My understanding is that Adam Filipino was basically tired of the day in and day out of running the business. He wanted to go off and do something else (I believe he found a job designing aircraft or something) and let Nancy mind the order flow.

I know that back when that all happened Adam had at least two new canopy designs on his computer (named the Yeti and the Gambler, if memory serves) but neither of them has seen the light of day.

Remember that this all happened around 10 years ago.



Sure. But does the designer want to go back to designing BASE canopies? What percentage of his personal income is coming from the BASE stuff at this point? What else does he have happening in his life and career?

There are a lot of questions that only the actual decision makers can answer.



Perhaps.

I think we tend to want the "newest" and "latest" whether or not there is actually any improvement over the older designs.

How many of the people commenting have actually put substantial time on a similarly aged (i.e. same number of jumps) version of the old and new canopies back to back? While I'm sure some have, I know that everyone (myself included) has a tendency to favor the new toys because they are new and shiny.

We are also reluctant to admit that our great new toy may not actually be that much greater than the old one--after all, we've just thrown down a couple thousand dollars for it, and we want to feel like we're getting good value.

Just so there's no confusion - the exact reply from Asylum was:

all pilots will have preferences, and it will depend on what you are familiar with and comfortable flying.


both will perform very well in the scenarios you described. I am biased and would pick the Seven with zp. but if I had a BJ packed, would not think twice.

Nice response, and it's abundantly clear that you have a vast knowledge of both past and present affairs in BASE.

Now, how can I make my dick look less like a chipolata and more like a bratwurst

I believe the climate in the UK causes shrinkage. You should probably move to California.

Theres a couple zp seven demos depending on how much you weigh. Also, if you saw the toggles crossed gainer cliffstrike from a norcal local that was posted on here, that was a seven. Theres been a couple more cliffstrikes, and from the sounds of it inflation was pretty darn good. And nope, im not going to try it myself :)

Now for some confusion:

I wrote earlier:

“However you need to keep in mind that Atair measure their canopies differently i.e. the OSP 260 sq ft is equivalent to a 282 sq ft PIA measured canopy.”

I based that statement on the fact that the Morpheus website contains this:

The OSP is available in five precisely scaled sizes: (Note – Atair measures surface area by measuring the span x chord of the bottom skin. Stane Krajnc, the designer of the OSP feels that this measurement best represents a flying canopy)
• 205 ft.2 = PIA spec 219
• 225 ft.2 = PIA spec 240
• 245 ft.2 = PIA spec 260
• 265 ft.2 = PIA spec 282
• 285 ft.2 = PIA spec 301
• 305 ft.2 = PIA spec 322

I also based that statement on my purchase of a Helium for a BJ 280. The container was by far too loose so I sold it. I should mention that this was a few years ago so things might have changed.

Now Robibird has very kindly advised me that Morpheus or at least Atair who design the OSP are now using a different measuring technique same as PD. But in saying that Robi mentioned the OSP 265 is nearer to a 270 sq ft PIA measured canopy i.e. half a size difference.

Try to work that lot out...

John

You say you have done 400 jumps on the seven. What is the lowest youve jumped on it, direct bag, freefall ect? Do you find the seven much easier to pack compared to other canopies like it claims it does? the non ZP sevens that is.

Size measurements of canopies (skydiving and BASE) are very non-standardized. A few years back a well known skydiving rigger measured various canopies from different manufacturers and found that none of the placarded sizes actually matched the size found when using the PIA spec.

Basically, you need to think of canopies as "280ish" or "240ish" because the difference between one manufacturers "280" and another's "288" might be more or less than 8 sq ft (in some cases the smaller placarded size is actually a larger canopy).

On the current size measurements, the Troll 305 (which used to be called a Troll 290) is almost exactly the same size as the Blackjack 310, for example (the troll is about two inches wider and the blackjack is about 1 inch longer, if the canopies are laid atop each other).

if the canopies are laid atop each other

Is that where new canopies come from?

I went to the logbook for the official answer. 373 seven jumps. Freefall 220, with multiple in the 240ish range. PCA 160 with a couple more from 180 into a tight landing area, tardover 175. Yes, the regular 7 does pack up smaller and the fabric is a little easier to manage than regular f111, not that regular f111 is hard to manage in any way. Id say it packs up about a half size smaller than an ace of the same size, and just about a full size smaller than a blackjack of the same size. ZP option obviously adds a small amount of bulk. My personal seven has about 260 jumps on it, and the fabric still looks pretty much new.

First jumps on the OSP were last night (200ft Pylon), and boy what a canopy, absoultly perfect for the UK. Very docile, easy to shut down, could land on a dime. Very happy, thanks Stane. I have been jumping a Troll for the last 100 jumps or so and that is an amazing canopy, but this OSP at first impression seems like the absolute business!!!

Thanks for the info. Tardover 175? what type of object was it (span)? just got my new seven and Ppro the other day. seems less slippy than other canopies iv been using to learn how to pack on. time to do some test jumps on it with an old crew rig iv got a lent of. hope it flys as well as people say it does.

please keep us posted. I'm seriously considering throwing down the cash on a seven.

Spans are scary, it was a cliff of course!

I think I'd be a lot more interested in hearing hjumper33's comments and assessments of that canopies capabilities.

I think you'd be best served asking jumpers who are using the product you're interested in, for the types of jumps you're interested in.

Curious how many jumps Marty has made in the scenario you described... with either canopy. Or how many jumps he's done on either the Seven or Feather canopies period.

I'm not going to ask an engineer at Colt how an M4 feels in a firefight.

(Maybe I shouldn't talk... I have a 14 month old little boy so I haven't made a BASE jump in a little over a year now.)

EDIT: I just re-read this post and it certainly comes off as me Asylum bashing.

That's not my intent.

I've heard nothing but positive things about the Seven from jumpers who I have a ton of respect for.

I even tried to get a demo a while back but... yeah.

Anyhow. I'm not bashing the product. I wanted to make that clear.

We have recently been playing with ZP and non ZP sevens on low (150-180ft) SL/PCA cliff jumps. I think in this range, vents make the pressurization noticeably quicker, as one would expect, but there has been no lack of canopy time issues. I dont think if this type of jump was my primary object that a seven would be the obvious choice for a canopy purchase, but it still really performs well even in low speed low cliff environments.

With respect to the type of jumps that you have mentioned, what actual make of canopy would you personally prefer; perhaps a BJ? Or are you saying that a Seven is still adequate?

Thanks

John

Would you choose the ZP option for the seven, if most of your jumps were terminal jumps? Does the zp option have any disadvantages besides giving it a little more bulk and making it harder to pack?

If I was making more than 50% of my jumps from this altitude, I would go with a BJ. Since Ive done maybe 25 total jumps under 200 feet, the seven is perfect. I would much rather jump my seven from 500 feet up, and in between its basically a push.

Havent taken the ZP seven terminal yet. I did get the ZP option on my feather and really like it, especially for flying big stupid wingsuits that open super slow. I dont really find much of a difference in packing, the opening is probably a little harder in comparison, but still fine.