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Are wingsuit specific rigs considered something that requires experience in the sport?

I imagine that their smaller profile means a tighter pack job, so in that respect I can see wanting to have packing experience before trying to stuff it into a sleek container (some seem worse than others in that respect), but is there anything else about them that requires the end user to have more experience in the sport, or are they just filling a wingsuit specific role?

I've got time to kill as getting married is taking up my vacation time for this year, and it wont be till 2012 that I can I can get out.

My plan is for a month to 2 month trip for a kjerag fjc and get my wingsuit on as soon as I feel comfortable. I've got 350 wingsuit jumps and should have another 300-400 by next year. I pretty much live in the thing, and love the feeling of flight. bigwall wingsuit flights are pretty much why I've got a desire to get into base.

Because of that it means that if I have gear before my fjc, I'd likely get a wingsuit specific rig to start with. As I cant get to the bigwalls till next year, I probably could get in some north american fjc (not sure if a wingsuit rig would limit being able to use for a bridgeday) But even if the rig isnt suitable for something like bridgeday, I'd still prefer to get wingsuit gear from the start, as bigwall wingsuits are first and foremost on my mind. And with the ability to go to a fjc like kjerag where I can progress from scratch on a bigwall, it seems to fit my needs. Worst case I like base enough to start trying it on other base objects, but I can always buy a better suited all round rig if that happens.

I was just curious about anything that made ws specific gear unique, as I dont see them offered as beginner rigs. The common sense part fits, as its a specialized piece of kit that probably doesnt work as well in a multi-use roll, which, for a beginner (jumping off bridges etc) seems straight forward. If my plan is to start on a bigwall and live on it for a few months, I'm trying to see if there are reasons my plan could use work, or, if for what I'm trying to do, starting out with a wingsuit specific rig would be fine for how I intend to use it?

The plan would be to order gear halfway through the year, hook up the canopy to a skydive rig, or try to borrow a belly band reserve, and use it on a number of helicopter and balloon jumps to get used to dead air and the handling characteristics of the canopy, so that by the time I'm at the fjc I know what to expect from my gear.


cheers

Have you considered a "convertible" wingsuit rig like a helium? Something that allows you to change the closing loop location and thereby alter the airflow profile?

There's no real need to jump a wingsuit specific BASE rig unless you (a) are actually getting the performance gains, which means you're one of the world's best wingsuit pilots, or (b) you just want to have the cool gear that those guys use.

For most of us mortals, the extra money is better put toward more training (wingsuit skydives) a higher performance wingsuit, or coaching, well before it becomes worthwhile to buy a wingsuit specific BASE rig (in terms of money spent compared to performance improvement).

I'm not saying that you aren't one of the top flight wingsuit guys who might benefit--I don't know you at all. Just be sure that the wingsuit specific rig is really the place you want to spend your money for the most return to you (in terms of performance, fun, cool factor or whatever else you are wanting).

 
I guess my initial look into a ws specific rig was that
a: it's designed for the type of jumping I hope to be doing, so would have been benefited from a lot of past experience put into the design

and b:
I'm interesting in maximizing performance.

I consistantly try and refine body position and form to get the most out of a flight, recently got a flysite gps to try and help for feedback in maximizing my flights (whether it be l/d or time). I've done some 6 mile out distance runs skydiving and while thats all internet bullshit until someone sees you do it, the short of it is I imagine I'll want to continue that refinement in a base environment.

If my intention for base is to be a target rich wingsuit environment I figured why not go with wingsuit gear. As long as I'm aware that it wouldnt be a great rig for low objects or that it might have some limitations in other applications. I just wanted to hear from experienced jumpers to see if there was anything I was missing in my initial research. Also the packing thing is not something I'm trying to overlook. If it is a right fuckin pain in the ass to put a base canopy in a wingsuit rig compared to a traditional one, thats something I have to take into a account for sure.

Have you considered the adrenalinbase Hybrid2? It is a low profile and more lightweight rig but also suitable to all kind of jumping as it fits standard canopies (not only ultralites) as well. I have personally jumped Hybrid2 SD and do not see any problems with it and therefore my next overall rig will most likely be Hybrid2 with a Troll. The only downside is the bottom plate top loop but it's a minor nuisance and once you get the idea how to pack it nicely it will be no problem.

Yes maretus true, not to confuse "Hybrid 2" and "Hybrid LD2"

Hybrid 2 for Troll canopy http://www.adrenalinbase.com/...uip&Id=&E=65
Hubrid LD2 for ONLY Trango canopy http://www.adrenalinbase.com/...uip&Id=&E=74

Of topic but if you are planning to spend 2 months at Kjerag then I hope your finances are sorted as I did the FJC last summer and spent 2 weeks there and although it was awesome the cost of living is outrageous...£5 for a beer £10-£15 for a burger and chips. 2 months will drain the wallet significantly.

Hope it all works out for you

yeah rich and pay me 3 pounds a day to put up with everyones shit ahhha

it's your call, but it sounds like you are putting the cart before the horse. if you are willing to buy 2 rigs, and do NOT live in a big wall rich environment, I'd say get a "normal" rig first.

I haven't been to Kjerag in years, so things may have changed. at that time, they discouraged newbies from jumping wingsuits. they prefer you to figure out how to exit first.

the practical, cost effective path, is to head to the Potato and develop your technique before heading to Norway.

Disclaimer: I have never ever jumped a
sleeping bag of death, better known as
a wingsuit, out of plane or off an object.

Nonetheless, just like LeRoy (RIP) most
of the time I still have an opinion

Get integrated risers and dynamic corners
on any BASE container and you should be
all set for a safe rig for probably any jump.

I own 2 Gargoyles, both rigs have dynamic
corners, neither rig has 3 rings, and I have
jumped those rigs kicking and screaming,
literally, from as low 180 up to 1000 feet.

FYI

Dynamic Corners are an option that allows
the bottom of the pack tray to open all the
way, the idea being less chance of a corner
asymmetrically snagging the pack job and
possibly making the deployment funky.

Per Rob (RIP) of Morpheus, this is more of
a problem with tracking and wingsuiting due
to the strong horizontal movement.

I got them on my rigs just in case I hose an
exit and end up deploying head low & fucked.
So far it only happend once (in my defense I
tripped and fell while running off a 315' A) but
with my mediocre skills it is likely not the last.

Integrated Risers are sewn into the harness
just like the reserve risers on a skydiving rig.

The benefits are less weight, more comfortable,
and better aerodynamics for the few tall, thin,
atheletic trackers where it makes a difference.
The costs are you can no longer cutaway if you
land in water, a tree, or being chased by cops.
Also if you damage the risers you can't just
buy another set.

I got integrated risers on my first rig honestly
mostly to help with gear fear. After landing
in a tree and successfully climbing out of the
harness and sliding down a branchless tree
I will continue to use this option for simplicity.

Yeah, it's expensive there generally, but you've got to be either a millionaire or an idiot to buy your food and booze at the campground!

Not that my opinion matters much, as I haven't taken my wingsuit off a cliff yet and am just a beginner here, but I got a Helium and it is a beautiful rig, lightweight, with a floor plate and second loop in the top of the container enabling a more streamlined profile if desired.

It also fits standard canopies (not low bulk ones), so I am having my BlackJack in it and can jump that baby off of any object (yes even done terminal with my BJ)

As Tom said, my understanding is that the your performance increase from an even lower profile rig will be fairly unnoticeable (at least in the long beginning of your wingsuit jumping) and the cost does not seem to be that worthwhile (mostly low bulk canopy - more expensive with less lifespan), to me at least.

Having said that, my second rig will be from adrenaline base :) those look beautiful.

Take it for what it is, everyone has their own preference and agrees to disagree with each other

Ok, now that I have a bit more time to maybe couple of additional thoughts on the topic. What do you mean by the definition of "wingsuit specific rig"? The only really wingsuit specific rigs I have seen are the integrated WS/Container -systems from Tonysuit and if you are referring to those, I would say they surely are "more experienced gear" and not recommended choice for a first rig. A friend of mine also jumps a HybridLD2 without a BOC (with a trango inside) which due to the combination of having SU only canopy and no BOC can also be considered as "wingsuit specific". Apart from those systems, all other systems I have personally seen can not really be described as "wingsuit specific". I jump HybridLD+ with Trango and even though it is SU only rig, I use it both in tracking an wingsuiting so therefore it is not "wingsuit specific". If you broaden your selection a bit by going for the Hybrid2 with a Troll inside, you will have the benefits of lower profile and lower weight but still a rig which is suitable for any jumping. So therefore not a "wingsuit specific" rig but a rig very well suitable for wingsuiting (amongst other disciplines of of the sport).

fair question, and I guess poorly worded on my part. I gues not wingsuit specific (as in something like the fusion that is wingsuit only) but more wingsuit optimized? from web surfing, the product listings sometimes list the rigs that seem intended more for wingsuit flights (not nessisarily exclusively) rigs like the razor, helium, wsx-etreme, hybrid 2 (or hybrid 2 l/d). Not being a base jumper, I just was not sure if they have opening systems or designs that make them not suitable for low alt base jumps (that doesnt bother me as my intent is for big wall jumps) or if there was anything about them that increased complexity and therfore was something that required extra experience for. I guess I just wasnt sure if there were anything about those rigs other than being designed for low pack volume?

As for the money thing I guess I'll just have to start saving, I should be able to squirrel away enough funds by the time I'm ready to go. Might have to dip into my savings, for for the experience it would be worth it to me.


I was guessing I could spend the first week tracking and see if/when I'd be ready to throw the suit on, is this unrealistic? I've done a number of balloon jumps and plan to do more to get some experience with dead air (not the same I know but any experience thats close is good in my mind) I've yet to windmill in dead air, but I imagine the pucker factor goes way up with theres a cliff staring at you if you go head low.

Put dacron lines on an Apex ultralight canopy or a feather from Asylum. Have your cake and eat it too, expensive as it may be.

Low profile rigs such as the Hybrid LD2 or Razor are not wing-suit specific.

They probably benefit Wingsuiters most, but are also used by trackers and can be used for most slider up jumps.

Some of the lightweight canopies are not suited to slider down due to the spectra lines.

The last I heard of the Fusion, the TWS rep wasn't even sure if it would be launched commercially and stated that the performance gain over a separate low-profile rig was very small, he claimed around 5%. I'd have guessed less but the design is constantly changing. The concept is cool, but the implementation is immature at present.

So the decision is really what type of canopy do you want.
1) Slider down only - not if you want to go to big walls.
2) General purpose - can be light weight \ low pack volume if you wish
3) Slider up only

Then get a container to suit the canopy.

You probably need to be jumping for a while to get much performance benefit from a low-profile rig. So depends how many jumps you'll be doing a year if it's worth while.

I believe the recommendation before starting WS base is minimum of 50 base jumps without a WS and suitable WS Skydiving experience. It can take a long time to clock up those 50 jumps, especially if you have a slider up only rig.

See article on starting WS Base here: http://www.phoenix-fly.com/media/articles

I am not sure to understand !!!
Wanting to make the wingsuit base after a week of cliff jumping is stupid. I do not understand with your skydive experience you think that!
Jumps ballons are useless for basejumping and skydiving is good for individual flight technical but not for experience Basejumping. To have experience in Basejump takes a lot of jumps Basejump.

Buy a classic rig, make your first jumps slider down.
Learns and begins by making two or three hundreds cliff jumps and then you'll talk about wingsuit in base only at this time

Sorry for my English

im pretty sure that if you ask special tom for wingsuit techniques for your FJC he will have plenty for you, he has so much wisdom on the topic

Ha ha ha ha

Low bulk material canopies CAN be jumped slider down, but they are not MEANT to be jump slider down. The material will wear out faster than f111. While it is very durable in its own right, I wouldnt drag my feather around moab for a few weeks, and I wouldnt want to drag it through trees in a technical landing area. Get yourself a nice used ACE or similar in a nice used rig, jump it off of low stuff all over, learn to fly the canopy and pack it, then spend the money on a low profile rig later. I dont think the benefit is that great that youll wish you had one when you first start wingsuiting.

I've got time to kill as getting married is taking up my vacation time for this year, and it wont be till 2012 that I can I can get out.
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why don't you just start BASE first with non wing specific base rig and if you like base jumping (or your new wife let you continue with it) you can always buy a another rig, the so call non specific wingsuit rig was wingsuit base rig for long time, if you stay in the game long enough you well have more than one rig (if your new wife let you), most of the base jumper have more than one rig just like skydiving