Basejumper.com - archive

Incidents

Shortcut
Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
 
2010 has been a sad year for the Base jumping community. It's almost not surprising anymore to hear of another fatality. Every month, Its almost like you're expecting to hear of the next one.


Something is compelling me to write this. Please understand- I don't intend this to lecture to anyone out there. it's just that things seem a little different now- and it just doesn't feel quite right to me.

Base jumping is evolving at a fast pace. That is nothing new. But now there is something different happening. The way people are base jumping and getting into the sport has changed - the common attitude and mentality is beginning to change.

In the past Base-jumping was a lesser known sport and prospective jumpers found it much harder to break into. The early times and negative public attitude towards base jumping helped to keep out all but the very determined prospective jumpers. Everyone was aware of the dangers and the risks kept it real. In most cases- you had to prove how dedicated you were, before a mentor would begin to teach you what he knew. And even then the job of mentoring seemed to be taken more seriously- with a slow steady progression. It seemed that the mentor took on a certain level of responsibility and was careful about the quality of advice given. There was a definite respect for gravity and the risks involved. People talked about the ethics involved- It seemed then, that the student was eager to actually learn how to become a good jumper. It was as if there was a desire in the whole community- to show the public that we were not crazy and that we could actually reduce and control the risk.

Now- Somewhere between high definition and you-tube. Things have dramatically changed.

In recent times the progression of new jumpers has sped up dramatically- often overlooking crucial aspects of the learning. The quality of mentoring has lessened. Sometimes even the mentor is only learning themselves.

Base jumping is moving forward. As it always has done. Moving forwards is a positive thing. I am very excited about the possibilities the future holds for all disciplines of base jumping. Because of the internet, the sport is getting more mainstream. Access to the videos on the internet has seen more and more people coming into the sport. Negative attitudes towards the sport are now beginning to change for the better. That is also a very good thing.


The thing that is worrying is that more and more jumpers-new and experienced, seem to be losing respect for the basic and always present reality in Base.


Almost all my friends know someone who has paid the ultimate price for the sport. People will always die base jumping. People will always make mistakes and sometimes get too complacent. It is all part of the constant learning in Base jumping. Most jumpers will accept that even with the correct attitude and progression things can go wrong and accidents sometimes do happen.

Lets not forget the hard work that many people in the past have put in to try and change negative public opinion. It has taken a very long time for the public to start thinking of us, not as reckless idiots- but rather to look at us and what we do with admiration and respect. It is now finally starting to show-I can already see for myself that negative opinion of the sport is changing for the better! It is a huge leap forward and will certainly offer new opportunities for talented jumpers.

But what I can also see is that the current trend of the new jumper and the now sadly 'fast-track' base course or mentoring, in my opinion is potentially very harmful to the sport. There is a real risk that the needless and for the most part avoidable deaths will overshadow all the positive aspects of this amazing sport. As the public become more aware of base jumping and begin to understand the principles and techniqes involved- they may also see for themselves the fatal errors and poor judgement some jumpers have made- They may again think of us as being reckless idiots who don't value life.

As the sport becomes more popular. There will always be more and more idiots who decide they want to jump- Sadly, I think it comes with the times.

I know that sometimes its hard to speak up and give advice- Especially when people don't care enough to listen to it. Its easy to point out that this is base jumping and its unregulated- and that people can do what they want. But think for a moment the damage they can cause to the sport. How does negative public opinion and high death statistics affect the future of jumping?- the access to those amazing jumps? the cost or availability of insurance? the consequences of stricter laws against jumping?

I love that base jumping is unregulated!- and I love the freedom. But we all should consider in which direction the sport is going. Forwards or backwards?


I hate to hear of an inexperienced jumper losing their life for a stupid and obviously avoidable mistake. It is an irreversable and permanent mistake that affects so many people. When a jumper loses his or her life making the same mistake that someone else has in the past- it is always such a terrible waste!

It seems normal now to see a new inexperienced student jumper going straight to the advanced technical exits. Ignoring or sometimes not even knowing the risks involved. It is easy, and totally understandable to see why new jumpers want to be like- and jump the way the top jumpers do. But do they not think about how many years it took for the top jumpers to get to that level? Why so impatient?- Do people not realize that all good things take time, and that learning the correct way, is learning the best way!- because it is then you learn that Base jumping is so much more than just the physical action.- it is about learning to make the right decisions. It is easy to Base jump- But it is challenging to be able to jump your whole life. How is it possible to throw yourself off an object knowing that you are ignoring good free advice from those with experience?- Cutting corners and not realizing the importance of learning the basics first. Why do people put themselves at a disadvantage by not learning all there is to know- and their own personal ability and limits.

Sometimes- it is just ignorance. The student will naturally put faith in the mentor-that is to be expected, the student may be totally unaware that the mentor is not teaching them correctly or even that the mentor is not very experience themselves. This is unfortunately happening all too often now- and thats when it is important for other jumpers to recognize it and to act. Just a word to encourage the student to seek advice from other jumpers and to use good judgement when taking advice from jumpers. I am surprised how little technical knowledge some new jumpers actually have while trying to jump advanced objects.

In the past experienced jumpers would tell the student if they thought that the object was too advanced for them. It used to be that experienced jumpers would guide the newbies to the right object I'm not sure exactly why- but now I see more and more experienced jumpers - not even blink an eye when a student is standing next to them ready to jump an obviously technical and advanced exit. People say nothing??- perhaps they don't see the point anymore. perhaps they feel more and more that new jumpers don't listen to them anyway. And i guess It can be hard to give your opinion to others especially strangers.

I remember how keen I was to learn- After observing the new generation of jumpers, I feel fortunate that I began jumping when I did. Of course there were times in my progression when I began to get complacent. I was focussed on the wrong thing-too focussed on distance and becoming too comfortable with pulling too low on every jump. The way I was jumping would certainly injure or kill me if i continued!- it took a friend to tap me on the shoulders and make me realize where i was heading.

Losing friends is tragic and is a real wake-up call. Knowing jumpers who have died has made me think long and hard about my life, why and how I jump. It helps to pull me back into reality. I want to continue to jump for many more years- I do not want to die while participating in this sport that I love.

Its amazing to see the many young talented jumpers that are active in the sport today. They have recently come into the sport at a time when the advancement in wingsuit and equipment technology and the greater levels of performance allows them to push the sport to a whole new level. They have come at a time when the sport is maturing and no more experimental They are able now to benefit from all the experience and knowledge gained from the the older generation who figured it all out in the past. But at the same time it is easier now to go too much, too fast. I think it is very important now for the more experienced jumpers out there- to revert back to the way it used to be, to take on the responsibility of actively reminding the newer jumpers of the importance of the correct progression and respect for the sport. If we dont guide the new jumpers then the fatalities will certainly only continue to rise each year.

I think the thing we all should remember is that the most dangerous thing for the beginner jumper is inexperience and the danger for the experienced jumper is usually complacency.

I want to wish all my friends around the world, all the very best for 2011. I wish you all health and happiness!- and good safe jumps!
Shortcut
Re: [Reiner1] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
Fucken Nice post mate...


+111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 SmileSmileSmile

should be made a sticky..
Shortcut
Re: [Reiner1] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
+1

great post!

From SA: Best wishes and safe jumping to all in 2011
Shortcut
Re: [Reiner1] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
That's an eyeopener. 2 votes for sticky, who else agrees?
Shortcut
Re: [uer16] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
AND PUT IT INTO ARTICLES!
Shortcut
Re: [Reiner1] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
cheers Reiner! Best wishes to you and your lovely lady...

awesome post.
Shortcut
Re: [Reiner1] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
I never feel compelled to post but I must say iceman thats quite the article
maverick_iceman.jpg
Shortcut
Re: [Reiner1] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
Reiner1 wrote:
Cutting corners and not realizing the importance of learning the basics first. Why do people put themselves at a disadvantage by not learning all there is to know- and their own personal ability and limits.

Such is our society, everything is instantaneous satisfaction, no waiting, convenience. Why should I learn the basics first when I could do what I want to do right now when I want to do it! Taking the time to learn something seems to be viewed as an inconvenience to many people.

For example, the kid with a few skydives who wants to learn swooping, he aproaches an experienced canopy pilot & asks where do I start? The experienced canopy pilot explains that canopy piloting is an artform & takes hours & hours to perfect techniques & that the student should be working on accuracy with his current canopy & that downsizing should be of no concern at the current point in time.

The kid with a few skydives thinks to himself, why should I go through all that trouble when I can hop on a tiny canopy & start learning the cool stuff right now! This guy underestimates my abilities!

2 weeks later he is a pancake...

This is the current trend & I believe that our society has a big effect on this type of mentality. Everything seems to be made for convenience & fast. You have it your way how you want it when you want it & you want it right now!!! Everything from food to toys & even pornography is way. Made for convenience, quick, no waiting, instant gratification, right now!!! Anything that takes effort & time is viewed as an inconvenience & we strive for ways around an inconvenience, even if it means destruction of ourselves or the planet...

Good post man! Sorry to rant, just adding perspective...Smile
Shortcut
Re: [Reiner1] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
Good post Reiner, and particulary true for LB.
Least effort goes on the cost of safety, and reasonable progression.
Shortcut
Re: [Reiner1] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
right on
Shortcut
Re: [base1347] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
thx reiner for posting so many valid points! i agree a 100% and will think about some points for myself.

take care and all the best for 2011!

andY
Shortcut
Re: [Reiner1] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
Very good post.

Happy New Year
from Team Bautasten of Sweden
Shortcut
Re: [MickeN] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
+ 1

Thank you Reiner
Shortcut
Re: [DAVE858] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
DAVE858 wrote:
Reiner1 wrote:
Cutting corners and not realizing the importance of learning the basics first. Why do people put themselves at a disadvantage by not learning all there is to know- and their own personal ability and limits.

Such is our society, everything is instantaneous satisfaction, no waiting, convenience. Why should I learn the basics first when I could do what I want to do right now when I want to do it! Taking the time to learn something seems to be viewed as an inconvenience to many people.

For example, the kid with a few skydives who wants to learn swooping, he aproaches an experienced canopy pilot & asks where do I start? The experienced canopy pilot explains that canopy piloting is an artform & takes hours & hours to perfect techniques & that the student should be working on accuracy with his current canopy & that downsizing should be of no concern at the current point in time.

The kid with a few skydives thinks to himself, why should I go through all that trouble when I can hop on a tiny canopy & start learning the cool stuff right now! This guy underestimates my abilities!

2 weeks later he is a pancake...

This is the current trend & I believe that our society has a big effect on this type of mentality. Everything seems to be made for convenience & fast. You have it your way how you want it when you want it & you want it right now!!! Everything from food to toys & even pornography is way. Made for convenience, quick, no waiting, instant gratification, right now!!! Anything that takes effort & time is viewed as an inconvenience & we strive for ways around an inconvenience, even if it means destruction of ourselves or the planet...

Good post man! Sorry to rant, just adding perspective... Smile

unfortunately, this is the american way.............not saying i condone it , or practice it myself, but the masses do. its quite the tragic comedy
Shortcut
Re: [TransientCW] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
TransientCW wrote:
DAVE858 wrote:
Reiner1 wrote:
Cutting corners and not realizing the importance of learning the basics first. Why do people put themselves at a disadvantage by not learning all there is to know- and their own personal ability and limits.

Such is our society, everything is instantaneous satisfaction, no waiting, convenience. Why should I learn the basics first when I could do what I want to do right now when I want to do it! Taking the time to learn something seems to be viewed as an inconvenience to many people.

For example, the kid with a few skydives who wants to learn swooping, he aproaches an experienced canopy pilot & asks where do I start? The experienced canopy pilot explains that canopy piloting is an artform & takes hours & hours to perfect techniques & that the student should be working on accuracy with his current canopy & that downsizing should be of no concern at the current point in time.

The kid with a few skydives thinks to himself, why should I go through all that trouble when I can hop on a tiny canopy & start learning the cool stuff right now! This guy underestimates my abilities!

2 weeks later he is a pancake...

This is the current trend & I believe that our society has a big effect on this type of mentality. Everything seems to be made for convenience & fast. You have it your way how you want it when you want it & you want it right now!!! Everything from food to toys & even pornography is way. Made for convenience, quick, no waiting, instant gratification, right now!!! Anything that takes effort & time is viewed as an inconvenience & we strive for ways around an inconvenience, even if it means destruction of ourselves or the planet...

Good post man! Sorry to rant, just adding perspective... Smile

unfortunately, this is the american way.............not saying i condone it , or practice it myself, but the masses do. its quite the tragic comedy

cutting such corners provides an economic benefit to many in Skydiving. cutting such corners led to the housing bubble. there is little money in advocating restraint. Unsure
Shortcut
Re: [Reiner1] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
+1
Shortcut
Re: [Reiner1] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
Making this post sticky or not , does not help much.
Every 10 years same text can be written and average of 15 dead per year will remain.

Reiner, you asked many questions in this post and you gave all the answers as well, so circle is closed.

Nothing much to do.
Non regulated sport we all like
Freedom we like ...
All that is nice, but also, face it the bad side of it as well.

Simple!
hapqy 2011.
Shortcut
Re: [robibird] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
There is no proof it doesnt work Robi ;-)

Happy new year!
Shortcut
Re: [robibird] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
Agreed with Robi.

There's nothing unusual, statistically, in this year compared to others. 16 deaths in this year is on par with quite solid trend of ratio of highest BASE number to total fatalities: for the past 20 or so years, it's been about 11. For any year, take the current BASE #, divide by current BFL count, you get 11. (+/- some fluctuations.) And BASE #'s so far grow exponentially. So do fatalities.

Older generations always think about newer generations as idiots. Reckless idiots who aint know nothing. Take the naturally exponential growth of fatalities, and you get a strong case. Even if you started BASE 5 years before somebody else, that 5-year shift will naturally produce noticeably more fatalities for that guy's 2nd year of jumping (7th yours) than when it was *your* 2nd year of jumping, so you feel reasonable to say, "stop dying, people, what's wrong with you?! "we" were not dying in these numbers!" But statistically, nothing is wrong.

Every year, certain % (approx. 1% of the current top BASE #) of participants will die. Part will die because, although they did everything right, some random factors beyond control killed them. Part will die because they do something outrageously stupid. And part will die because they didn't have enough experience for what could be just a routine uneventful jump. This percentage and pattern has never changed much in the last 30 years.

Preaching just not to die won't work. Because preaching like this has always been there, from generation to generation, ever and ever, and in every sphere of life.

However, more than proliferation of youtube videos showing stupid acts, there's one trend that is much more sickening: plummeting quality of information sharing. Trolls and mods killed it. Go back 8-10 years in this forum or Blinc or even usernet groups, and you'll find a lot of useful info, with very respectable jumpers discussing various technical things and others respectfully listening. Now it's all about venomous attacks on anyone who dares to ask a question and tries to really think through things.

Even old timers became like this! Shame, shame, shame.

So preaching won't work. You can't reach somebody's brain that is soaking wet in adrenaline. But you can share good information. Good info is always absorbed well, even by retards. Many experienced jumpers stopped sharing or turned into asses. That definitely doesn't help BASE's growing pains.
Shortcut
Re: [yuri_base] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
yuri_base wrote:
statistically, nothing is wrong.
fuck statistics. one fatality is one too many. the information and knowledge is out there.

yuri_base wrote:
Part will die because, although they did everything right, some random factors beyond control killed them.
i don't agree with this. not once has that ever happened.
Shortcut
Re: [yuri_base] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
Did you bother to put that much effort in to such a post to bash a post? Jezzz

How do you know if a reminder post like Reiner did, do not save one or two? Fuck sake you have no idea, what´s going on in your head when things starts to go bad. It can be as easy there is more jumping going on, and also more knownledge out there. Every accident happens saves some other for awhile, and we will see the number is constant maybe for more reasons than just to be a number. who knows. I know the more you read and the more you prepare yourselves, the better off you are when shit happens. The good thing I see about the new generation, is that many of them have solid multiple backgrounds from different sports, and adopt quite easy to new enviroments. Who nows what have a good influence in new comers or not?

When I was doing my skydiving lessons, it was friday evening basic information, and saturday ground training, sunday first jump. months lather I had a great progression and was out on my free altitude jump, and experienced my first and only flat spin. I had no idea how to get out of it, and struggled for awhile before delta pops up in my head, and I manage to stop the rotation. When I landed I tried to think where did that delta thing come from? I could not even remember it from the training. Newbies do pick up a lot more than you think. Reminders do serve its purposes.
Shortcut
Re: [434] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
Sure , there is no prove , but there is no drama either Paul.

Satistics counts, no matter if we like it o not.
Comparing BASE 10-12 years ago and today, here is what we have..

-same average of fatality-good (cca.15)
-about 3 x more jumpers than 10 years ago-good as well

my opinion is that general knowledge is higher
overall experience higher
equipment much better.

..and jumps which end up w fatality even though all was taken in account exists, as BASE is not free risk activity.
Shortcut
Re: [robibird] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
Having been in the sport since late 2007, I am definitely a member of the new generation. As such, I've made a lot of jumps with a lot of other newer base jumpers. Here's what I've seen:
1. some are scared shitless and thus slow to advance.
2. some are reserved and thus slow to advance
3. Some are ballzy as fuck, either because they don't care or they don't take the time to consider consequences, and thus, progress quickly.
**Within each group, some individuals suck, some are average, and some are solid.
Given that I wasn't there to see I cannot say this for sure, but my expectation is that new and upcoming base jumpers represented all these categories throughout most of BASE's history.
While I'm aware of many close calls amongst my ballzy and quickly advancing friends, I'm unaware of any recent deaths as a result this sort of behavior. Furthermore, looking at the BFL doesn't support the theory that bad mentoring and fast progression has been the cause of the deaths of 2010.
If there is one thing that seems correlated with death during recent years, it is the wingsuit. However, correlation does not equal causation, so that is a whole other debate. Unimpressed

On a side note: If there's one thing I firmly believe (based on 2 summers working at Kjerag), it's that skydive numbers alone say very little about a person's potential in a BASE environment.
Shortcut
Re: [Reiner1] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
+1
Shortcut
Re: [wwarped] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
will someone please raise the stupid flag on this thread...
Shortcut
Re: [BASEMenace2] Good wishes and safe jumps for 2011
BASEMenace2 wrote:
will someone please raise the stupid flag on this thread...

well, I removed the thread hijack. it started off rather well received, and then got seriously off track. that sort of diversion is not appropriate in the Incidents forum.

anyone want to resume the original discussion?