Basejumper.com - archive

Skydiving should be used as training for BASE. It will develop muscle memory, reaction time, recognition, etc.

Learning how to control yourself can be quite important. The head can play funny games.

Find an interesting article on the differences between Choking and Panic here:
http://www.gladwell.com/...08_21_a_choking.html

Stay safe.

This is a sad day in BASE. Really? I haven't posted in a while and this confirms why. We are full of ourselves doing an incredibly selfish sport and act like it is some sort of right of passage. Just f(*&ing jump... Who cares if you fail. Who cares if you die? Panic? I really don't understand. Do you jump Warped? To the beginners on this forum; if you listen here you will never be successful.... dan

have you been to BD?

every year you will see newbie's eyes glaze over as they prepare for a simple hand-held go & throw. some pitch immediately. some go head low. the last BD fatality had a very late release from a hand-held.

wannabees have been known to buy gear specifically for BD, and then put it on the market afterwards.

it seems appropriate to me to encourage some self-assessment before BASE jumping. there are people out their that lock up under stress. that can be a major problem BASE jumping. maybe it is not for them.

no one can decide but potential jumper. if they are honest with themselves, they can limit their risk.

I guess you disagree.
care to explain your thinking?

yes he does.

IMO, that's a rather poor example

>>the last BD fatality had a very late release from a hand-held<<

Sometimes I really don't think you know the difference between moderate and instigate.

And, man, that example was a fail . . .

NickD

I think that one was meant for me, not Stitch.

this is a Beginners forum. my goal in this thread was to get people to think, and hopefully discuss. call it instigate if you wish. I was attempting to contribute content, like other users.

it is an obvious fail since there is no discussion, just people telling me I screwed up.

so be it.

I thought that you get into base jumping by training.
And I also thought that 'training' means that someone who is unable to do something will eventually be able to do that "something".
So, with the process of acquiring skills(training) anyone on this planet is able to start base (technically). And, for me, the phrase "base jumping is not for everyone" simply means that base in not for those who do not want to do it, and that B.A.S.E. Jumping IS for everyone who wants to do it. Though survival chances may differ

Not taking sides. Why was his example a fail?

Why was his example a fail?

For the same reason people do not use
Dwain or Shane's fatalities to explain a
simple idea to their students...

Both of those losses were very sad,
RIP guys, but they were anomalies.

Here is a better example for Newbies:

Early on in MY BASE career I landed in a tree
and was lucky to suffer only minor injuries,
minor damage to the canopy, and a 4 hour
delay from having to cut down a big tree w/
a hand saw to retrieve my gear.

All because I put myself over a thicket of
trees & froze under canopy for just a couple
of seconds with the toggles in Deep brakes.


So basically there are much better examples
of people fucking up / freezing up for 1 to 2
seconds than someone who was very old, had
very limited parachuting experience, was not
current, etc.

To: Ivan The Ruskie aka uer16

I totally disagree with you. Have you ever
done tandems? I have taken 1200 people
and some of them could not be trusted to
open a jelly jar more or less a parachute.

I agree with Wwarped's original post.

Dwain and Shane's were ambitious, high risk jumps. His was a go and (not) throw from a bridge. I would have a very hard time putting them together in any category more specific than 'BASE fatalities'.


I think that two out of those three points were very much part of what he was trying to get at.

I might diasagree somewhat with the point (I think actual lack of knowledge/ technique for inexperienced new jumpers is more of a problem than freezing and not applying it), but I can't really see how it's a bad example to illustrate it. An extreme example, sure, but it fits.

Not really. I've read it, and enjoyed. Maybe it will help, maybe it won't, but it gave some interesting knowledge anyway. :-)

A very helpful and interesting article. It does not matter if it is about BASE, Skydiving or piloting a plane. It is very good to know the difference between chocking and panic and work with it.
Thank you, it was a very good read.

Wow...Um, hopefully not offending anyone, but that fatality was because we are, just as jumpingdan said, cocky and full of ourselves. I have been to B-day several times, and matter of fact that was my first year there and I was right behind our late friend...he was practically carried up the stares people, and we threw him off a bridge. Nothing technical about it.

Note to self: If a jumper can't physically get up to the exit platform (this excludes all bad mother fuckers like Lonnie) or see the edge of the exit because their vision is shot, maybe we should question their ability to make the jump safely. Everybody look in the mirror and say, "WE SHOULD NOT HAVE ALLOWED THAT TO HAPPEN!" There is your discussion on that little screw up.

As far as this thread goes...nobody that admits they are a vagina and fail under pressure is even going to be on this site. We all thought we were virtually invincible, bad mo fo's, that can eat pussy, snort a line, and ride a uni-cycle at the same time. Thats how most of us started jumping in the first place. Then you get a wake up call with a buddies death, or strike, low pull, ect. and all of a sudden your Gods gift in BASE jumping wisdom to the new guys. What bullshit. It doesn't change shit. People WILL ALWAYS say "that won't happen to me" and start jumping just like most of us did. You live and turn into "Let me tell you something, about base and you, that you don't know!" or you don't and we talk shit about your stupidity. Yay. Carry on.

IMHO -
This goes against my ethics. I will give a person my opinion, and be straight forward about what I think of the situation they are in, but in the end the decision to jump is up to them and I will not stop anyone from doing the jump that they desire to do. If the given person is injured or killed on that jump, then natural selection has run it's course.
Jumping and the freedom of being able to do the sport and do the jumps I want in the sport is what attracted me to it, if that freedom is taken away by controlling parties, then I would have to find a truly free sport. For me, base is a personal sport and I will have to live with the consequences of my actions.
Yes, I have done stupid jumps and learnt big lesson from them, but I love that about base.

I am still a newbie to base and I am not set in my ways, so maybe i will change my views in the future.

my 2c

No, no, no. None of the three were anomalies. All great men, who achieved extraordinary things, that we can all look up to and respect, but they all made a simple mistake that is easily explained. Very simple ideas for students that someone else can explain cause i am tired of wasting my finger strength today, I have more important things to use it on like scratching my ass.

If you were there you probably would change your opinion, there is a line to the "freedom" of our sport, and that was well past it. There wasn't a person that witnessed that not saying "this isn't going to go well" and we all just sat back and watched the shit happen.

wow. that is far from my perspective.

I prefer to make information available so each person has the option of an informed decision. each person then gets to make their own call. if they make it with less than complete information, so be it. I have no intention of telling anyone what they can or can't do at an exit point.

others here seem to agree as well.

I've also read these forums to know that many users admit to mistakes, failures, etc. sure, some might be macho to the extreme, but not all. if you honestly believe that each user feels invincible, then that speaks to the abilities of humans regarding self-deception.

self-deception often leads to tragedy.

FYI - Dan said: This goes against my ethics.
I did not write that nor do I agree with it.

My motto of: Honor Among Gravity Thieves
allows for friends to step in when necessary.

I have had a friend take my keys before
and then I thanked them the following day.

I was not in attendance at Bridge Day '06,
2007 was my first year, hence I was not
a witness to the event.

Originally I had *thought* Brian (RIP) held
the PC till almost impact. After this thread
I visited the BFL and saw that the summary
states: weak pitch after 5 second delay.

So YES, that is a problem that will NOT go
away and should be discussed with newbies.

However, my basic point was that trying to
fly between support wires, or throw a flip in
a wing suit while wearing skis, or taking a
9 second delay hand-held at 60+ years of
age with 1 BASE jump are ALL pretty rare.

Yes, like others up board have said we are
ALL Anomalies, in that we like doing what
makes most people cry, puke, or scream.

If I want to stress to one of my up & coming
BASE jumpers about the extra dangers of
wearing a wingsuit (Sleeping Bag Of Death)
then I don't bring up Dwain's story since
they could dismiss it as a freak stunt jump.

Instead I would use the death of well known
and well liked jumper Darren Bull (RIP Mate).

Here is why: He HAD made the recommended
number of skydives, continued to SKY jump,
he took an FJC, he was young, in good shape,
lived in Europe, jumped often, was current,
wore crampons, yet he still slipped at an icy
exit point and is sadly no longer with us.

No go scratch your ass

This is the beginners forum, therefore I was referring to beginners, not users. Most of us don't make it past 50 jumps without becoming humbled and start to change our thought process a bit. Every user started somewhere, and if you can honestly say you weren't a little over eager to some level when you began jumping I am surprised. I think we all or at least most of us were. The way i put it was mostly for humor.


Neither do I dude, you wanna kill yourself being stupid have at it, but like I said..there is a line in the sand with everything. I feel extremely disrespectful in finding the words to say my opinion on Mr. Schubert's accident, but I it's my opinion he shouldn't have been allowed to make that jump. If the "requirements" for B-Day were met and in-forced he wouldn't have.

OK Greeny, I'm off to do that. I've had enough inane babble for this...year probably.

I agree, seeing the incident first hand would most likely change my opinion on the matter. I just hope I never have to see something like that.

very valid points.
I also plead guilty to being over-eager at the start.



ps, being over-eager caused me to jump when I should NOT have and screwed up my reactions. to a certain extent, I choked.