Basejumper.com - archive

I read this on the Consolidated Rigging Website:




Now I'm confused. Does this passage imply that mesh sliders shouldn't be used beyond 8 seconds? The answer I get for using mesh sliders@ terminal depends on who I ask. The local rigger (a very experienced base jumper as well) told me as well that a terminal deployment with an MS would yield an unacceptably hard opening and that i'd be better suited with a sail slider. Other BASE jumpers tell me an MS is fine. What do I believe?

I'm not nearly as experienced as most, but using a sail on any delay is a bad idea IMO. I would rather have a hard opening than a potentialy long snivel on a BASE jump. I would worry more about PC selection on longer delays.

A sail slider is significantly more influenced by the relevant wind after linestretch. This can create offheadings and softer but longer opening. The openings can be longer because the sail slider presents a greater surface area. Therefore inflation of the canopy must overcome a greater force before sending the slider down.

What if you have to under delay for whatever reason? The smaller the delay, the more inconsistant the opening, even on a mesh slider. It is more pronounced on a sail slider.

This is just my opinion, let someone with more experience chime in.

-Tj

I will take this seriously and assume that this is not a troll. How experienced your local rigger actually is in SU environment? Honestly, the people I jump with regularly have probably all together couple of thousand SU BASE deployments and none jumps with sail slider. Neither have I never seen in my 7+ years in BASE of anybody using one. Surely people used them "back in the days" when jumping skydiving gear off El Cap but since modern BASE gear was born, mesh sliders have been the way to go.

So to make it short, forget the sail slider as you should forget wonderhogs and balloonsuits as well. :)

thank you guys. i don't think he has very many slider up jumps. he does most of his jumps at moab. he just seemed very adamant about me not using one and he refused to let me do terminal practice jumps on my base canopy with a mesh slider, hop n' pops on low speed jump runs only.
i thought what he had said was a bit weird, as i see many people doing kjerag jumps with mesh sliders, and that's why I am here to clarify.

I am still confused by the CR website. Someone should fix that lest someone take a sail slider off a cliff. I emailed Nancy with a similar question, no response.

you have received some solid advice about sliders.

my main point is to think for yourself. let's face it, terminal is terminal. it matters little if you jump from a plane or Kjerag!

ask your rigger/advisor(mentor?) why he insists on a sail slider. show him Kjerag videos. see how he responds. figure out who is making the most sense to YOU. adjust your opinion of various advice accordingly.

I personally value the rational behind opinions far more than the opinions themselves.

doesn't seem like that rigger knows what he's talking about. you'll be fine with a mesh slider for terminal.

I have heard that if your canopy is vented, you want a sail slider, and if it's not, mesh is the way to go.

Can anyone validate that comment?

BASE frequently is about personal preferences. not everyone will agree on everything. (some still jump skydiving rigs...)

you say you have a bunch of jumps, what do YOU think?
what have you seen?

Hey what's up T,
I told you I jumped my BlackJack out of the plane and to terminal (freepacked, tracking and wingsuit) and didn't experience any hard openings. Brisk and fast, but not hard, no parts of my body were sore afterwards.
I have little experience comparing to most, but I asked many decent people about it.

Too bad he didn't let you jump with the mesh.. how come? Just show up and jump that baby!
Come on! Easy peasy, I don't think I know of anyone who jumps sail any more...

that's right. it's funny that a reserve opening (sail slider up of course) would probably smack you much harder than a freepacked base canopy with a mesh slider. my thinking is that the canopy is constantly decelerating you if it comes off you pack free packed. whereas, a bagged canopy is exposed to the wind all at once upon extraction from the bag and kind of has an explosive opening. so most riggers wouldn't know this unless they had done test jumps to prove that mesh slider up on terminal is fine. just relax your body. if you want to slow it down some, rubber band (not too much though) the center of the slider to a center B or C line.

Wrong.

My previous post is accurate but I want to ask you a question.

* Where do you hear this type of information and why do you feel it would be accurate.

* Do you know what Vents do?

Just because its on the internet dont make it TRUE

So how would that work, given the absolutely minimal amount of force it takes to pay lines out of a tailpocket?

Like wwarped said, BASE is personal, alot of people do things their own way and swear by it, others vomit at the idea of doing anything different than what they learned here.

Now, here's an idea, small mesh and large mesh sliders! Longer delays* use a small/fine mesh slider. Shorter delays, large hole mesh slider.





*Given opening altitude is not at tree top, keep that in mind.

I have 0 SU experience in base. I forget where I heard that about vents/unvented, but I thought it was a rule of thumb. guess not.

Just because you hear one guy give an unrationalized thought doesn't mean its a rule of thumb. Think for yourself, listen to opinions and experience, then innovate those opinions to your own style and what works for you.

Every BASE jumper should be an innovator in to some degree.

Thank you. Which is why I said "I heard this, can anyone back it up?"

I hope you do realise that now on top of the possibly unrationalized rumor that you don't even remember from whom or where you heard it you have the opposite opinion being backed up by some anonymous guys on the internet. Talk about reliable sources on where to base decisions that can have quite high impact on your life. What could possibly go wrong. :D

I was referring to you assuming it to be a rule of thumb. Assuming is not thinking for yourself. Don't be a puppet who assumes the puppet master will pull the right strings. Use the strings as guidance and move your arms and legs yourself.

Wow, that was probably the most retarded analogy ever, but whatever. :)

-tj

Your recent questions/statements lead me to believe that you could greatly benefit from purchasing the great book of BASE and reading it cover to cover several times.

Does anybody know what the magnitude of the difference between a small and large mesh slider is? Mainly at terminal, but the differences at non-terminal openings would be nice to know, too.

Sorry for the idiotic question, but I'm an idiot.

It's ok pirate. You will need a large mesh slider for the 200 foot antenna we are doing together.

Mmm... Sliders where they shouldn't be; bouncy.


Seriously though, is there a fraction of the difference between the two that exists between both and a sail slider?

Edit: Punctuation and semicolon use.

I don't reckon you'll notice much difference between a fine and coarse mesh slider on a 200' freefall ;)

The difference between different slider materials becomes greater as your fall rate increases. The difference in opening speed is largely a result of the relative (upward) wind striking the slider and slowing it down. When there is very little wind, the difference in the slider material matters very little. When there is a lot of relative wind (terminal) the difference can be very great.

On a zero airspeed deployment there is almost no difference between a large mesh and a sail slider. At terminal, there is a substantial difference. The difference becomes greater in a non-arithmetic fashion (that is, the difference is mostly apparent as you approach terminal).

Oh we wouldn't freefall it. I would pca him all the way.

Seriously though. I asked local jumpers for advice and he sent me a message about an A that is a 200 footer with a highway as a landing area. That is why you never have a non jumper give you advice on locations....

Ah - well the Irish can't afford to build them much taller than that these days!!

What Jumper was that???The Pirate???

He was joking... I hope.

I have 100s of big wall SU jumps, and have only recently changed from large mesh to fine mesh, much better openings, wish I'd have done it years ago!
Although I wouldn't use it for any delays less than 10 secs