Basejumper.com - archive

Sad what has happened.

After 7 year hiatus from BASE jumping I returned to Moab to see exits with carved and chipped steps on the approach. Being able to climb was part of the jump. If you couldn't climb, you didn't deserve to jump.

I was taught cliffs are like buildings. Leave no trace, don't damage or destroy the object in order to gain access. The current character of jumpers today in the Moab area is shameful to say the least.

Whoever is doing this needs to stop. If your climbing ability is so low you cannot access the exit then choose something else within your limitations.

If you're doing it for the masses then consider skydiving as your sport of choice.

What has happened to the next generation??

While you're at it you should get on the douche bags that blew the steps for the Half Dome Sub Dome, and whoever installed the cables for that matter. If you can't climb it, you don't deserve to jump it, right?

Just a small rant on the same topic... We went to jump one "newer" and now hugely popular jump in the swiss valley couple of weeks ago. And what we found was that even though there is autobahn wide trail that even my grandma (who just died 2 weeks ago) could follow leading all the way to the exit somebody had seen necessary to mark the trail with white plastic wrappers on trees every 5m or so... Why? If you can't follow a freaking huge autobahn to the exit or cannot find somebody to show you where it is... Maybe you shouldn't be there in the first place.

Just my few cents.

(I am fully aware of the general amount of junk in that part of forest but it really doesn't mean we should do our best to increase it.)

What exit points are you referring to?

Yes and remove the cable from Eiger too. If you can't jump over the crack, don't go there.

Yah, I am interested in that too. I dont recall any intentionally made steps or paths in moab. You get enough people to walk on sandstone like around the tombstone area, and it will happen to an extent.

I saw notches in the approach to crown while I was there

I didn't put them there but I was damn glad to have them while I was down climbing after getting winded off the morning after a full night of pouring rain when the sandstone was all sandy and slippery!

ps. I'm a halfway decent climber myself... ;p

These are just one kind of drawback to base overpopulation. While I'm sure its really fun and exciting to teach/mentor others the sport, it ultimately doesnt preserve many sites like these, naturally, or lives. Sure if some people weren't taught, then some legal sites wouldnt be legal but is that what base is really about? I wonder what the sport would be like in ten years if everyone truely stopped bringing others in for that time. With how self cleansing base is, prolly just a bunch of crazy old cooks would be out there, kind of like the oldn days waayyyy back when.

There are 3 approaches I saw steps and hand holds chiseled into the rock.

I've had to down climb BITD and yes it's scary, but do-able. But damaging the rock in order to provide easy access or retreat is poor judgement.

As far as the cables on Half Dome Ceb.... There is a major difference.

1. That is for the MASSES. 400+ daily.

2. There are no chiseled steps-- instead the poles are bored into the granite and taken down every fall. Our tax dollars pay for the cables every year. They remove the cables due to snow and ice in the winter months.

3. Moab is not regulated yet, if actions like this continue or worsen the BLM and state agencies will be forced to further regulate the activities we love to do. Because we feel the need to alter the rock and bring it to our level, instead of bringing our skill level to the access naturally provided.

I'd rather have some crazy old kooks like the good ol'days vs. a generation of jumpers destroying the beauty of the environment in which we love to play in and lack the skills to approach the exits.

 
I'd rather have some crazy old kooks like the good ol'days vs. a generation of jumpers destroying the beauty of the environment in which we love to play in and lack the skills to approach the exits.
Exactly my friend

Very sad!

I'd rather see a bolt drilled with a crutch attached to it, than some idiot hammering hand and foot holds into the rock!

Which ones? Please PM me if you don't want to post it.

Well obviously you have never hiked the trail up to Half Dome. There are probably over a 1000 steps that are not only chiseled, but blown with explosives. I'm not saying your wrong for being upset, I'm actually with you about preserving sites. But in the grand scheme of things a few manmade handholds isn't going to shut Moab down.

I support you on trying to preserve nature, but stop blaming newer generations, like the older ones never had bad apples amongst themselves. And next generations are really just following the path laid out by the previous ones. After all, they taught their children how to live. All this reckless view on nature started long before all these "next generations".

We're only self-aware, and we need to take another step of evolution to become environment-aware too.

maybe they learned from the previous generation. seem to remember some base jumpers cutting down trees and driving a truck up yosemite and getting that shut down. it is not a new generation thing, sorry to say.

+1
The cliche of the "new generation ruining everything".

This is just a rehash of the "sport" vs. "trad" argument.


Rock Climbing Ethics

You've never been to the summit of El Cap. You can only drive so far on Big Oak Flat road which is still 6 miles from the exit. Which the NPS still uses at times.

There has NEVER been a pick-up truck at the exit..... who told you that???

well if u actually read my post it doesnt say to the exit, seldomread mark.

the information comes from several articles. here is one.

http://www.terragalleria.com/...o/yosemite/base.html

I don't give two shits what you "read" If you haven't been there is doesn't fuck'n matter what you read.

You probably believe everything the bible says.

THE DEVIL IS REAL!

 

 

looking forward to being there in January...I will be thankful for aids on icy exit points.

Where would anyone need any assistance at G spot? You almost don't even need hands...

 

You cant get aids from holding hands silly its from ass fucking

And you want to know what is even worse?! Some bastard went in there at G-Spot and painted big white trail markers at the top and then they had the nerve to blast a whole road down into Mineral Bottom. Those assholes even put an airstrip down there. And then, to top it off, all along the river, some punk put up a paved road. Can you believe it?? This new generation makes me madder than a yak in heat. Those youngsters don't deserve to BASE jump because they aren't old enough to appreciate the blah, blah, blah.

I love how the people that are jumping Moab all the time aren't part of this bitch-fest. Seriously guys, put some effort into it; I'm sure you can find something way better to start crying about.

 

Have you jumped tombstone in Moab in 2 feet of snow in the winter? It's intense. How many exit points have you jumped in Moab in the winter, those of you complaining?

I like Aids. No not that kind, the other. What about 4 horseman? Think you could get up easy if they didn't put that bolt / chain in?

I am with Matt, I don't see any of the locals on here crying about it. Most of you have probably done more damage trudging through the cryptobiotic soil, then any of these so called aids. Think about that.

I am going to register a new site. Basejumperbitchfest.com Most of you should have your membership transfer over easily.

Smooches (not Aids)

_justin

If you did that then what would be the point of having basejumper.com?

You are on it today! I would have never guessed those are actual trail markers for bikes! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

 

http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related
http://www.urbandictionary.com/...?term=Sandy%20Vagina

Lane, I don't mean it like that other people can't bitch, it is after all, all our land being BLM and all.

The thing is, if the locals aren't raising the alarm, I am not overly concerned. Especially if a guy like MMk, who probably has more jumps in Moab than quite a few people have total posts, I mean jumps, isn't alarmed.

A few handholds, chipped or what not doesn't bother me in the least. I haven't jumped crown since last year, so I don't know if they were then. If they were, I am a big pussy cause I still thought it was difficult.


Worrying about regulation? Well I'd say landing on the road at yellow line and getting a ticket is worse then the handholds. Ruining the soil and breaking the crust is worse still. Think any ranger's have ever been to the top of Crown, seen a few chipped steps and said 'damn jumpers'? No, they are more irritated when you land on the road at Tstone...

Even though it's a dirt one that anyone can be on... I've seen them watching at Gspot to make sure people don't land on the road.

I hate posting but when I see this stuff it irritates me. Especially when one of the guys who helps put up the ropes at Dragon's nest deletes his post cause he doesn't want to deal with the bitch fest that is base jumper.

Seldomseen whoever, how many jumps do you have in Moab?

_justin

Justin... number of jumps has nothing to do with the OP. NONE.

Like I said... without a rope I'm one of the first to shit their pants with an exposed climb/free solo to an exit. But fuck... I'll try.

So Justin if your stance is that as a local you can do whatever you want to whatever exit you want which has been long jumped b4 you were ever a "local" carry on. Chip away.

No. Number of jumps is important because if you have a lot of jumps and exit points there, and are bitching, it adds credibility.

If you've made 10 jumps and seen 2 exits with damage, well, I think you have less.

If you are a local and have seen 100+ exits with hundred of jumps over the last few years, you probably know if damage is getting done, or worsening. As well as knowing if it is a concern to the authority types.

Am I going too fast for you?

As for the locals, well they can do whatever they want. They are the one's jumping there on a regular basis. While I'd hope they aren't leaving beer cans at exit and dancing in the soil, they could and I have no recourse. However, seeing I *actually* know and have jumped with a fair amount of them, I know it's not the case, they are great people and do the right thing.

And don't get me started about those damn *locals* who carved the ladder to get up to Echo, or Funky Front....

If you want to help me however...

I have a site in NY/NJ that needs some trees taken down, so come visit and bring your saw. I am sick of taking out the branches with my canopy each jump cause the water is too cold to land in for a wuss like me.

Nick has done his part with the saw on the exit, but still we need help.

_justin

Sounds you should work more on your canopy skills and less on your being a self proclaimed "authority" on what "qualifies" someone as to # of exits and # of jumps.

And if all you want to do is pound your chest for others to see how bad ass you are... I'm sure there is a gay bar down from where you live in NY where some people will gladly listen to the fecal matter that spews from your mouth.

Was that slow enough for ya??

Refer to Matt's post about Sarcasm.

You'll get it eventually.

I'm not sure that he will.

But since that is the case, Mark, would you be willing to help me cut down a few trees as well? I hear you are handy with a saw and there is a nice, tall 140ft bridge that would be even nicer if you didn't have to dodge trees on opening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFaMUq-2Z9Y

Does it still count as dayblazing when you wave at the cars as they drive by?

How about on exit?

A certain jumper later cut down the tree that tripped me on this exit 2 years ago. Thank god, it's safer now.

Perhaps we could do something about the water next.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oERK8edp3H4

Now this thread is completely off track. Hey look at me! Manicure all the exits!

What!!??? There was a carved ladder up to Echo?

I lost a lot of skin on my hands and wet myself at least twice climbing up there. I wish the guide book would have told me there was a fucking ladder...

It truly is off the track but who cares. Love your style guys!

 

It isn't Mark. I have never jumped with Mark and as far as I know, that is the only time that bridge has ever been jumped.

This thread has raised several issues, most of which warrant addressing, but I decided to just give my input on the one above. If I understand the poster correctly, he/she is suggesting that 'altering the rock' will subsequently lead to BLM and state agency intervention.

Overall, most people like watching BASE jumpers, however, here is some actual feedback from non-BASE jumping locals and visitors after last weeks BASE jumping activities. Remember, these are people's perceptions, so both parties may have different recollections of the events.
"I returned from a hike to Amasa Back parking lot to find a large group of BASE jumpers packing and chilling out. I am generally pro-BASE jumping but some of jumpers were just plain rude. They had blocked my vehicle in with their packing tarps and I asked politely if they could move one since I had to go to work. One of the female jumpers gave me a lot of attitude. I appreciate it is an inconvenience for them, but after all, I asked politely, I was in a parking lot, I was there first and I had to get to work."

"Me and my friends were riding our dirt bikes along Kane creek when we found a truck blocking the road. As it turned out it was a BASE jumper blocking the road so that some other BASE jumpers could land on the road. By the time they had landed and casually stored their chutes, there was traffic either end. It was cool to watch them, but we don't come to Moab to sit in traffic when off-roading."

"I was driving along with my wife and kids when suddenly some guy in a parachute landed in front of me in the middle of the road. Shortly afterwards another one landed. They kept blocking the road, excitedly talking to each other, reinacting something and doing stuff with their parachutes and helmets. I thought modern parachutes were steerable, but these must have been older models since they should have seen the car from the air, well at least the second guy anyway, and we were barely traveling at 20mph. Considering the width of the road and the drop-off on the side, I don't think its safe for parachutes to land on the road in traffic. Maybe the city should put some warning signs up?"

So who is going to attract the attention of local law enforcement agencies and the BLM? The indigenous Indians who put in the Moki steps at Echo; the "old skool' jumper who opened up most jumps in Moab and who chipped in two steps on the way to the Crown; the random hiker, climber, photographer who put in some steps along a section that is also used by BASE jumpers on the way to G-Spot OR some people who piss off locals and the tourists which are the liveblood of Moab?
Last year I attended a SAR meeting after two SAR BASE rescues within a week. Do you want to know what they were pissed about? They accepted that 'shit happens' and had no issues with the 1st rescue. However, when arriving at TS to get a jumper of the wall, they are immediately informed by his crew that this was the jumpers 1st BASE jump and on non-BASE specific gear. SAR felt that up to that time people jumping in Moab were 'experienced' and prepared. Consequently, they feared that the place will be overrun by people who have no business to BASE jump here (their words). On a side note, during both rescues plenty of crypto was crushed, boulders were rolled and holes drilled.

I Am your BASE jumping landscaper i offering a special on exit point pruning this mouth....

MMK.

Last post for me as this thread has gone off the topic. But you raised the one point I was attempting to make.



What I saw was providing access to people who should not be on the exit. The 2 steps and chiseled rail at the crown makes it a lot easier for the next beginner BASE jumper to access a cliff that is not as overhung as TS, and has some climbing still at the top. The crown is not a 1st time E BASE jump, but making access easier and people might think it is.

I got into this to enjoy the natural beauty of whats around me. Which lead to meeting some amazing friends. I didn't post to accuse anyone, just my 2 cents after a long vacation and change happens. Give Moab another 7 years and it will be interesting how everything looks.

MMK, thank you for always being a beacon of intelligent thought and articulation. You Rock!

"Chipping" is about as low or unethical an act as can happen in the back-country. It is frowned upon by anyone with time in the wilderness and this should include base jumpers.

This discussion is about ethics after all. Either you got 'em or you don't. Those without will have a far greater impact on the sport's acceptance than those who exercise restraint.

It's not always about "me me me". The greater good is better served by not lowering the level of difficulty of an approach. You wanna get the locals in an uproar? Chip away. Wanna stay below the radar? Learn to climb.

jon

I truly would hope the next beginner BASE jumper would not assume that just because a jump has assisted access (carved steps, bolt station, ropes, etc…) it’s a good 1st time E BASE jump. And if he/she thinks easy approach is a factor that makes a jump suitable for his/her first E (against basic common sense) then he/she may potentially have a shorter than average BASE career.
If that is how the beginner logic works then there is an urgent need to put up barricades on the way to Welshman’s, Boulder/Pillar Rush, etc.
Hopefully, a smart beginner jumper (the one that by some miracle hasn’t heard that TS should be his 1st in the area) would get to the top of the Crown, look over the edge, see that it’s not as overhung as TS and then climb down. And THAT is where the steps may come quite handy (since they are there to aid in climbing DOWN, not up).

I normally dont say a word on this site..Its all a bunch of flies on the same turd....But today I will.

I have played in Moab a lot. I pop in and out of town I consider it my home. So I feel I can chime in. I think this a very convoluted topic. To say there should be no climbing aids is lame. You might as well take the trams out of the Swiss Valley. Those are aids as well. Edward Abbey calls it “Industrial Tourism” It is a byproduct of a growing sport. I do like the way back when methods, but this happens in all sports and industries. Way back then is…well way back then. So I try to take the best of the past and the now.

Moab is one of the few legal places to jump in the US. Because of this it attracts a lot of jumpers. Our sport is growing (notice I use our instead of me). It is changing dramatically. Today, because of personal media and communication our group is at large. And jumping in large groups is more common. At times it can lead to Cluster F**** and others it’s fun. It’s our choice to jump in these moments.

With more jumpers comes more risk. Keeping Moab safe, fun and incident free is key to keeping it legal and the local authorities happy. A jumper not capable of climbing up echo is probably not considering his or her climbing ability when going with the big group. They should but it does not happen, unfortunately. Even outside of a group we can get so horny for a new jump we are probably going to go anyway and take the added risk. The locals who have put aids including myself ( I don’t carve, not a fan), are doing this to add safety for our community and to share the overall experience with others.

For whoever wants a Moab with no aids guess what you can still get it….There are thousands of cliffs all over the area. I still venture out to find them for that first ascent, solitude experience. Just because a couple exits have aids does not mean the experience is lost. Besides humans and our influence are a mere speck on this earth in regards to the 300 million year old rock we put a rope on or carved a step in. We will be gone one day and the trams, roads, lift lines, airports, and your little carved step will all crumble away. I am not saying to carve away, but a little help here and there to give someone a safer experience is ok.

Dieg Nutz

Your attitude is what keeps us out of the National Parks. It's the same thing as the "Flatbed 10" knocking down a gate to drive closer to the top of El Cap. No difference. The jumpers of that failed era showed total contempt and disregard for the ethics of the back country and look at what it got us. You advocate the same and can expect the same results.

jon

how did you come to this conclusion from diego's post? it's quite a stretch. maybe we should go after the gov't for building handicap access at the arches. talk about destructive and self-serving. bastards.

well put dude, fuck what tha other dude said

When i was living in Moab, I would regularly hear the phrase: "I'm jumping regardless of the conditions because I am not climbing down" (on jumps that are easy for climbers/those use to being exposed to down climb).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man


The first step should be to get everyone in sticky-rubber approach shoes, they are amazing on the slickrock.
If aid is still needed it should be the in the least permanent form. A bolt with a rope can be removed in an hour if the BLM decides to undertake an exit-point management study (EPMS) in the future.
I don't hold out too much hope because of the previous posters all-to-common quote.

+1

I went from wearing a pair of Hanwags out there to my pair of old 5.10 skate-style approach shoes, and the difference was incredible. The 5.10s stuck to the rock like glue.