Basejumper.com - archive

After a few discussions with the jumper, than witnessing the video first hand...we pulled this screen shot. this is the result of a packjob from one of the packers at bridge day....this jumper didn't know any better..and it could have resulted in a very bad situation.

Looks like someone has no business packing for anyone else if they are either too dumb to know this is wrong or too dumb to care. There is no way this can be packed unintentionally....someone either knew what they were doing and just said fook it because its a stupid big bridge or they have no idea what they are doing.

Bloody hell...

Edit: The more I look at it, the scarier it gets.

jesus christ.

Scary shit!

did he ask for the packjob to be slider up or slider down? was this the result of packing it slider up without proper steering line routing or just not securing the slider for a slider down jump? was this an APEX packer or one of the riggers at the bottom?

it concerned me seeing other first timers asking strangers to pack their rigs in the landing area. especially the speed with which the packers were going through the pack job. made sure to learn how to pack before my first jump so i didnt have to go through that at the bottom.

are there any qualifications imposed for being allowed to pack at bridge day?

The thing that surprise me is that a guy who can't even pack for himself jump with a video ...

Sell these fukcing gopros and learn how to pack fast !

Gopro is not a tool, it's a illness witch spread faster than sexual's diseases

Why is a jumper that "doesn't know any better" jumping a video camera?

because he is a much better candidate to produce the footage needed the much awaited sequel to the carnage video.

why else ?

+1

also, who configured the parachute?
the packer?
the jumper?

packing is a crucial task. if the jumper did not feel qualified to pack, did they at least watch and try to learn? (maybe video the pack job?)

This jumper paid for a slider up packjob.

He made two successful slider down jumps earlier in the day, packing for himself.

I completely agree with you here. I'm the jumper in this picture/video. I was told by several experienced jumpers that they knew the packers personally and that they were very qualified and knew what they were doing, so I didn't think too much of it. My friend who was out there making his first BASE jump was out there as well and landed in the water, so I left my rig with the packer and went to help him dry off the canopy and all that stuff. I know how to pack for myself slider-down/off, however, due to not ever having had the opportunity to jump slider up with my rig (I got it 4 months ago) I am just now learning to pack slider up. I knew what was wrong as soon as I made the jump, as I know the idea of the slider-uppackjob, just not how to do it myself. I am fully aware as to how lucky I am that the slider made its way down, and have already been lectured on this. I take it the only way I think it can be taken, as a learning experience, one that tells me never to let anyone else pack for me. As for me jumping a gopro, I turn it on and forget that its there. I'm not trying to be some hotshot camera flyer, just like to go back and look at my jumps and learn from them, see how my reactions were, what could I have done better, all of that stuff. I watched the rig be put together by a very trustworthy rigger at our dropzone, learning from and watching everything he did, but since I am not a rigger nor have I ever put a rig together myself, I only did the minor things, pulling the grommets of the slider under the attachments and that kind of stuff. I've tried to respond to everybody's posts in this, and will keep checking back. I appreciate all of the feedback, as I am new to BASE and enjoy learning as much as I can about it. I'm sorry if I pissed anybody off or did things that you do not agree with, but I feel like I've explained my reasoning and hope that it is at least understandable. Thanks to everyone so far. Except for the dude who tried to kill me at bridge day.

BASE pack jobs are slowly becoming problematic for us. I've got people asking me if they can pack for money in the LZ, but that's not something I care to manage or control. Why can't people just pack their own parachutes? I just don't understand the mindset of paying someone with no discernible ratings to pack your one and only life-saving parachute. We also had 2-3 jumpers show up at BD asking where they can rent parachutes. Disappointing.

Any recommendations?

missed this one.....I asked for slider up, but had packed slider-down for myself on the previous jump. As the canopy opened, I realized that the packer had not put the brake-lines through the guide rings OR the slider grommets, so you can imagine my confusion, but it was stable and flying so I just said fuck it and well, just did what I'd normally do, go land. I was told that they were trustworthy people. You live and you learn. I'm lucky to be alive to have learned I guess. It won't happen again, that's for sure. And it was just one of the riggers at the bottom. Thanks for the response.

As for the gopro....the setting and forgetting might work in skydiving (although many will ague your point there too) it simply doesn't not work with BASE. You cannot afford to "forget it is there."

Did you happen to go handheld for your jumps at BD? You should read about Buffy's fatality.

yeah, I went to BD last year for my first jump and went handheld. And I did read about Buffy's fatality, its sad. When I say "forget its there," I simply mean I'm not trying to get an awesome shot or anything like that, just trying to log my jump so that I can go back and look at every detail of it. But I don't mean any disrespect towards Buffy or what happened to her, I know its just another thing for the bridle to catch onto. This year, I went stowed on both jumps. I only have 18 jumps at this point, and would consider myself pretty conservative. Thanks for the reply, and also, Cincy BASE Crew's video was sick

+1
I hear the new Go Pros will automatically up load your video to YouTube so you can be a cool guy twice as fast.

 
You underestimate the laziness I think. The demographic of the BD crowd is more skydiver type than your normal underground base jumper.

BASE is all about controlling risks.

that frequently means unpacking, reconfiguring, and repacking before a jump. many do it every Friday evening before BD. (I have as well.) I've seen many excellent, knowledgeable jumpers offering free assistance. it's a great way to learn, meet jumpers, and introduce yourself. you have the luxury of time.

with only 6 hours of jumping available on BD, most want to pack as quick as possible. taking time to properly reconfigure a rig just seems hard to do. it likely will be rushed with more chance of error. there also won't be experienced jumpers casually milling about to help.

4 months of ownership is also plenty of time to practice packing.

wearing the camera is simple, as long as things go well. when the go wrong, it requires advanced skills. I've also seen jumpers focus more on their camera than the rest of their gear. it can be a serious distraction.

after reading all these posts, ask yourself this, "Did I use my time as well as possible to minimize MY risk? or did I focus on secondary issues?"

every jumper makes their own choice when, where, and how to jump. choose wisely.

I understand that 4 months of ownership is plenty of time, I had just never learned due to the lack of need for the skill. Everything I've jumped other than the bridge has been slider down, and it did take me a few weeks to learn how to pack, due to outside factors. as far as the camera goes, I said it before and I'll say it again, and I mean no disrespect saying that, but I turn it on and "forget about it." I do this to the point where I have 2 or 3 jumps that I thought I was filming that it turned out that the camera was not on because I paid so little attention to turning it on, and you know how easy those things are to turn on. So that tells you how focused on the camera I am. But I learn by reliving and re-watching all of the details, on top of everything else. So I do like to have some footage. I have yet to put together a big collaboration or any video set to music because that has not been a concern of mine, as I've said. I'm just trying to learn the way that I do best. As for your question, I obviously did not use my time best, because had I done that, I would have packed it myself and not let that idiot do it for me. I've learned my lesson there. And I will definitely continue to play out every jump and situation in my head before and after each jump. Thanks for the response.

 

 

You are right, what were we thinking.

You punch their ticket, and I will strap them into the teacups. Do we have a volunteer to clean up the vomit when the teacups stop spinning?

Nah dude, never been skydiving before....I figured BASE was cooler and it would make me more of a badass if I just went straight into it......of course I've been skydiving, if you read my previous post, I was helping my friend out, and not watching what the packer was doing. I also pointed out that I immediately knew what was going on once it happened, not that there would have been a WHOLE LOT I could have done about it if shit had really hit the fan. Second of all, yes I did, but I didn't know how to do the entire packjob, and I figured if I was gonna pay for it, I might as well let someone who supposedly knew what they were doing do the entire thing, so as not to mess up a part of it or whatever. And what does it matter if I'm jumping slider-up or down at bridge day anyways? If I'm taking less than a 4 second delay, which I took about 3 and a half on the first jump, then slider down should be fine. And I've got three people that I learn from, but its not their job to babysit me, and had the packer done what he should have, it would have been fine. I saw my rig two times after the first jump, once when I gave it to the packer, and the second when it was packed and "ready to jump." My mistake was letting some fucking retard pack for me, I understand that, but if you just want to sit here and take shots and have nothing really constructive to offer like everyone else has been so kind to do, then I don't really care much about what you have to say. I've got plenty of people that I learn from, any of which, and even myself, who if we'd seen him packing it like so, we would have been like "dude, what the fuck are you doing." But that wasn't the case, and it caused a near accident. But nothing happened, and I've learned from the situation, so like I said, if you want to give me some advice, I'm here to learn, if you want to sit here and call me an idiot, well that's your prerogative, you're a more experienced jumper than I am, but try and think back to your days as a beginner before you start railing me without saying anything constructive. Thanks.

Just an observation...

packers pack
riggers tinker with the parachute crap

Did you specifically ask the guy to reconfigure your crap to SU from SD ?

Not trying to justify someone's action/inaction, just wondering.

I agree with you 100%.

Thinking for a solution to the packing problem, seems like a tough mission.

The only thing that came to mind for me is a posterboard size information sheet with some key essentials, maybe even a picture; stationed around the packing areas on Friday night, and during bridge day.

Granted this incident did not result in any damage to the jumper, but for a few dollars, maybe we can save one person who is packing or having their gear packed by someone else might read the information on the "Are you packed correctly for BASE?" and learn a little something in the meantime.

Mistakes happen, that is why they are called mistakes.

yes, I did. I told him I'd just jumped slider down, but wanted him to switch it to slider up. I figured for 50 dollars, that wasn't all too much to ask. Apparently I was wrong.

You got what you paid for.

There is no packing problem!!

Most jumpers know how to pack their parachute.
Newbies usually have a friend or mentor help 'em.
A few people just pay a stranger and roll the dice.

Please do not put one more thing on Jason's plate,
not only is he already busy but it will also just make
his Bridge Day 2011 power point presentation longer

If you can pack slider down it's not that different to pack slider up. It's like a skydiving rig - the break lines go through the slider grommets and riser rings. Don't use the white loop for slider up. You should learn how to configure your BASE gear both ways.

In skydiving, it's common courtesy to set your breaks and un-collapse your slider and pilot chute for your packer, you could have reconfigured for your BASE packer also.

I consider assembling a canopy to risers to be a minor thing, you should learn how to do this yourself, not just watch, and have someone check it for you or watch you do it the first time. I think this is an essential skill for BASE jumping, so you know when your gear is assembled wrong.

How was the opening? Did it take a long time for the slider to come down?

I am a big boy so I'd much rather have a slider up for a 3.5 second delay, especially at Bridge Day when you have plenty of altitude, you could have re-configured before the first jump unless you had another reason to want to be slider down.

You pay a packer you take your chances.

I know, you're right, its something I'm getting around to, its just like I said, outside factors slow me down, and usually I'm jumping lower stuff anyways where there is no need for slider up. But I definitely have been meaning to learn. And I'm very interested in rigging, and would love to learn as much as possible, I just need to find a rigger to shadow and learn from. And I might have known that the gear was assembled wrong had I even taken a good look at it while he was packing it, but that's also my fault.
The opening was a 90 right, but I fixed it pretty quickly, as the slider came down. It only took a couple of seconds, I got really lucky. And trust me, I won't be paying a packer ever again Thanks for your response.

Yep.

I'm having a really hard time trying to muster up any sympathy whatsoever. I'd always thought that there was one solid, constant, inviolable piece of advice for people starting BASE, wherever and however they do it, and that is learn how to pack before you learn how to feckin' jump.

I sat and watched a jumper pack with a note pad and a pen, i then purchased a used rig and sat at home going over my notes and packing it. When i was unsure about something id get on the telephone to him and still hang up somewhat confused but with a good idea about what i was doing.

Then i'd go to local objects and jump.

What Jakee said, i was taught to learn the gear first and then learn to jump.

add a line to be read into the video,
"I am responsible for ensuring the parachute I jump is correctly configured and packed."

There was a packing problem...toggles were routed incorrectly.
~do you blame the house for being in the tornados path?

Mr. Economics,
You of all people know there is a BBB, designed to help those that need protecting. Newbies need protecting, why else do we gear check them thirty times before they get to the final gear check on the ramp?

Why do we stop at the pilot chute attaching, and gear checks. we could take it back one more step...and that is the rigging and packjob.

Who said have jason do it? I have volunteered to help out at bridge day the last two years and both times I have been told no your not needed for staff. There is plenty of help there to get this action item done if its deemed appropriate. I am merely making a positive item for discussion.

As for the powerpoint...its long for a reason..there is alot of information to disseminate to 400 people. Remember we live in america and you can get sued for serving someone hot coffee if you don't spell out the fact that the contents of the cup being served is hot. If we didn't live in such a litigous (forgive my spelling I don't have spell check on my droid) country i can only imagine the power point would be much simpler. Youv been to KL and malaysia right..how long were their powerpoints?

Im sorry you don't like the length of the powerpoint becausei know you would rather be drinking and coaxing young guys to go jump wanda with you..but it is what it is (sigh)

The Friday night powerpoint presentation is long because it's intended for newbies......that's why we dismiss experienced BD jumpers right after the water rescue report (about 15 minutes into the speech). Funny stuff, GreenMachine!

We aren't responsible for pack jobs and adding "how to pack" posters in the LZ sounds a bit much. In addition, I'm not interested in handing out free $90 staff slots so someone can hold jumper's hands in the LZ. Learn to pack yourselves.

PS. Contact me in June if you want to work staff (and you're qualified to do so).

I seriously hope Im not the only person on here that thinks this whole thread is f-in retarded...jump more...bitch less

OK, so first off, who was the packer? I'm sure inquiring minds want to know.

because that is seriously, a ridiculous mistake. i've reconfigured more packjobs from up to down and vice versa than i care to remember, and i don't even see how that is possible unless you do it on purpose.

BUT, that being said... quit being a bunch of drama queens...

seriously? the only way this would've been catastrophic is if the brake lines were through the slider and NOT the rings and you had a brake fire.

what you got, or even lines JUST through the rings, are totally manageable. the slider is still going to come down, maybe not as fast or maybe not completely down, but you'll still land fine, especially over water.

but like you said, lesson learned... but there are obviously a lot more out there to learn.

+1

I don't remember his name, I don't even know if I asked him, he was just one of the guys who was packing for the people who wanted to pay for packs, but I'd know him if I saw him. He was kind of short. And I agree with you, looking back I'm assuming he was just a total ass and was like "fuck it, its a big bridge, he'll be fine".....and as far as being catastrophic, maybe not, but if the slider didn't come down, it could have caused some problems, maybe not death, but still, its more the principle. As for being dramatic, I'm fine, I don't even really care, I just learned a lesson and that's don't let other people pack for me. End of story. But I would kind of like to know who did it, just to let him know not to do it again. There's no excuse for that kind of error, especially if you're packing for other people and charging them 50 bucks haha.

+5000000

when the fuck did this become a carnival ride? show up, pay someone to pack, have someone make sure you put your rig on correctly, make sure you hooked up your PC correctly, tell you where to put your feet, make sure your panties aren't in a bunch, etc.

seriously? you PAID someone to pack A BASE RIG for you and you're bitching because it wasn't done right? that's your own damned fault. pack your own shit and take responsibility for your self. who cares if you only get 2 jumps in because you pack slow. is it worth getting 5 jumps in and then going in on your 6th jump because you couldn't be bothered to do your own work?

this thread is RETARDED.

yeah pretty much just said in the last one that I didn't really care, no animosity, but that I've learned that lesson. Thanks for feeling the need to reiterate things I've already said, I appreciate it. As for the other stuff in the first paragraph, not sure where you're coming from. I'm pretty sure I haven't said anything talking about any of those things. But please, keep up the rhetorical questions, and then commenting on how retarded this post is. Its like going into a chat room where people love a certain team and then trashing that team. If you don't like it, why are you even commenting? And thanks for all the help too, I wouldn't be able to learn more and progress in BASE without people like you. And as far as paying someone to pack, its called capitalism, supply and demand. I wasn't sure how to pack slider up, could have packed slider down but wanted to take a longer delay, so I paid for the services that were being offered. I'm not bitching. I didn't even start this thread. But the fact is that there are going to be people paying for packjobs at bridge day, nothing you can do to change that, and its not the end of the world to try and make it so that more people don't die or get hurt. But you probably never made any mistakes in the beginning....

Whatever. Relax a bit. Yeah I'd bitch if I paid to have a rig packed and it was quite obviously done incorrectly. 50 bucks is a lot of money for 15 minutes work. For that type of money, the person should be a very skilled efficient expert.

No, I wouldn't pay to have mine packed, but if I did, you bet your ass I'd bitch. Paying top dollar for someone to nearly ruin your day is worthy of complaining.

You do not have to like it but it's not your place to care or judge. Packers are there to provide a service. If they're being paid to pack, then they are expected to pack it correctly.

Fair enough. I guess the comments like "looking back I'm assuming he was just a total ass" and calling the packer "the dude who tried to kill me" just struck a nerve.

Experienced people on this forum constantly harp on new people not to take shortcuts. Take your time, learn things. Don't skip skydiving and jump into BASE. Learn your canopy, learn your gear, ground crew and learn how things work, etc. etc. etc. So I guess my non-ranting point would be that paying a packer because you haven't taken the time to learn a skill you need for a jump you want to do is a shortcut that shouldn't be taken.

(and no, I'm not the guy who packed it. There's no way anyone would pay me anything for my 45 minute packjob)

Nah, I've made plenty (hitting a tree, climbing a tower in bad conditions knowing i'd just be climbing back down, reading/ranting in internet forums when the winds are bad, etc.), and I will undoubtedly continue to make even more mistakes in the future.

He did try to kill him, he just didn't know.

Bridge Day isn't the average base jumping situation. 6 hours of legal NPS BASE jumping. That's it. While I don't believe people should be complacent or take short cuts, it doesn't concern me much that a bridge day jumper used a packer. Bridge day has it's own rules. If I knew 50 bucks was the going rate, I may have gone to bridge day to pay my rent for a couple months.

I'm not one who will tell you to do ground crew. I seldom need it.

It's important to know basic rigging skills so yes, I'll harp on people for that. If you're going to BASE jump, you HAVE to know you're rigging your kit correctly. I see basic packing mistakes occur and it's a direct result of not understanding the mechanics.

At minimum, basic parachuting skills are required to base jump. If you're going to jump technical objects, then you need much better than basic parachuting skills.

Pretty simple :)

there is the rub.
everyone makes mistakes. when people mess up on the basic stuff, it can freak people out. experienced jumpers generally know people on The List, have evacuated an injured jumper, spent time in hospitals, etc. and wish to prevent a repeat. read up on the "how to attach the pc to bridle" issue that crops up every few years. getting cavalier on the easy stuff sets off warning bells for many. it paints a picture of the jumper not caring enough about their own safety.

hopefully, newbies are reading this. many arrive with the attitude, "it looks easy, what's so hard?" they think they are at a dz where someone is protecting the beginners. the real work to minimize risk MUST be done by the jumper. otherwise they appear to be an accident waiting to happen.

I didn't mean that comment to be anything other than a sarcastic remark. Everybody makes mistakes, I was just a little irrated because I've been doing nothing but admitting that I've made and learned from this mistake, and yet people continue to rail me on making a mistake. That's like trashing somebody for calling you an asshole after they've already apologized. I was just annoyed.
Secondly, I see BASE jumping as the exact opposite. Nothing about it looks easy. If you have an "easy" jump, you either got lucky or it was a lot more technical than you were aware of and you just don't know it, because anything can go wrong at any time, and you don't have a lot of time to fix it if it does. That's my view on that matter.
Also, I didn't mess up the basic stuff, I paid for a packjob and the guy packed it wrong. My mistake (for the hundredth time) was paying for the packjob in the first place. But I feel like I have SOME right to be a little upset at the guy, and I'm not sitting here calling him the biggest cocksucker I've ever met, I'm just saying he shouldn't be packing for other people, especially at bridge day, where if something happens, its gonna be all over the news in a heartbeat.
And I'm not getting cavalier on anything. I simply wanted to take a longer delay, did not know how to pack slider up, and paid somebody who obviously had equally as little of an idea as I did to pack it for me. It was a mistake, and one that I will not make again. I really hope I don't have to type that exact sentence one more time, although I'm sure that I will. I really appreciate the feedback though, I understand that some lecturing is appropriate, I had just gotten annoyed at people repeating non-constructive stuff, which is why I wrote that original comment.

Learn to pack, or just pay an apex packer.... simple enough. :)

It was probably the guy with the "master rigger" tee shirt on... That s@#t was funny.

Base is a your on your own sport.... yes you get a mentor but you are the one who makes it happen....if you lay you shit down and tell some one to pack it take who are they to ask if thats not the way you wanted it..... its your ass, wipe it your self or don't bitch if your pants get shitty

What's that quote from Nick DG? "When GenX couldn't change their own oil we were doomed."?

When a BASE jumper can't/won't pack for himself...

At least he has mad video skills.

jon

Hmm, I do not think I ever heard that,
is the couldn't implying that:
A) they can not be bothered
B) they do not know how

A can make sense if the car's owner makes
a lot of money per hour, lives in a dorm or
in an apartment, does not have tools, etc.

B is totally fucking sad and probably what
Nick DG was referring to (my opinion/guess).


In that other parachuting sport there is a lesser
known phrase: Ken & Barbie Jumpers, they can
can be great flyers, swoopers, people etc. but
they usually pay a packer, do not know how to
pack their reserve, and could not adjust their
own toggles, or replace their own pilot chute.

As Tyler Durden said,
You choose your own level of involvement.

Skydivers can make 1000's of jumps without
really knowing shit about the gear and that is
fine, I mean how else would all of those kids
with DUI's earn money to pay their probation?

BASE jumpers, in my opinion, should be much
more involved. There is no governing body to
regulate your behavior. There are only risks...
risk of death, risk of being paralyzed, etc.


Going back to Nick DG's quote, I am not sure if
he meant WE (as in BASE jumpers) or WE (as
in Americans) but I think it applies aptly to both!

I was born in 1972 hence anthropologists would
put me in the Gen X cohort, however I can pack
ALL of my own canopies and change my own oil.

Many Baby Boomer parachutists are the ones to
thank for blazing a trail for us in parachuting.
Seriously, I am very happy and grateful that they
rolled the dice and figured some things out for us.

But Baby Boomers are also the ones to blame for
the many problems in our society today, such as
divorce rate, obesity rate, 13 trillion dollar debt,
and many of the hypocritical laws we have.


Going back to the original event that spawned
this thread: I know the guy who bought the
fouled pack job. I have watched him slowly
pack his own rig (slider-down) and then jump
it off of an antenna. He is also a nice guy.

I have BASE jumped someone else's pack job
on more than one occasion, but of course two
big differences: I knew the person who packed
it and there was no reconfiguration involved.


FYI - Here are the brackets:
Greatest Generation 1900 - 1925
Silent Generation: 1925 - 1945
Baby Boomers: 1946 - 1964
Generation X: 1965 - 1980
Generation Y: 1981 - 1995
Generation Z: 1996 - 2010

In the interest to help out some newbs, I offered a really nervous looking kid a packjob at BD. I was doing a packing class later on and had an hour to kill. I was really just feeling helpful and wanted to help a guy out. Upon stretching his shit out, I found a spun riser, one misrouted brakeline and broken rubber band. The rubberband just pissed me off.

He disappeared for a few hours and upon his return, he said that one of his buddies just handed this rig to him and he was looking to pay someone to pack it. I wasn't going to charge him anything, but he asked what I owed him and I told him to give what he had for the ass ache.

I guess that BD is probably one of the safer places to do your first jump and to get help. But the sheer carnival ride approach that some people take is wild. I dont know if anyone really knows what they are really getting into when they choose to get into this thing.

I took his money and donated it to the Canadians.

I hope you got a shirt for that donation!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! It's all your fault bro. All your fault. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Thanks for posting!