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I just got back from the Swiss Valley and my rig was slider up. I decided I wanted another slider up jump and really wasn't feeling packing, so I had the local packer pack it out of laziness (which I've never done). Before jumping I opened it up just to make sure the brakes were stowed and the slider was in fact actually up. One thing I always do every pack job of mine is re walk the lines up after I lay it down, which I'm sure wasn't done on this one.

I decided to test it out, so I went to a local 830ish ft exit. The friend that showed me the site went first and was watching my opening from the ground. I took about 6 seconds and sniveled past the last light in the middle of trees. There is a landing area on the left and one on the right. I was no where near any guyed wires. Since he landed on the left I had the thinking I'd follow him. After unstowing my my brakes and attempting the left turn the canopy collapsed then dove hard to the right. I grabbed both rears which had the effect of stopping the turn but partially stalling it I tried for toggles again and again it bucked and started the dive. At point I was under tree line and in about a 45 degree dive/spin. I tried to stop with risers again which I did... Kind of and PLF'd to all hell. I was fine and the canopy laid out in front of me. I was careful stashing it not to disturb anything. After inspection there was some funky shit going on with the right side, but nothing was rigged or hooked up wrong.

Anyone else have similar experience?

Canopy was a Troll 285 MDV with a 42 inch vented PC.

i had 2 tension knots, both i was lucky to clear one fast the other one just barely in time.
the one on my flik left severe burns where cascade and d line was knotted,2 fibers broken with black burn remains on where the line was frayed.
the other one just left a apalled pole on the exit point . no marks on my clapped out raven4. the lines are worn on that one though.
i also walk the lines up as you do and definately did that on both jumps. both where neat packjobs also.
sometimes just shit happens.
both where in wingsuits though, which is the main factor i guess.

what do you mean with funky shit?

Mark it up in your log.
Take care
space

Good lesson about wanting to jump without putting in your normal level of preparation.

Cheers to walking away from the mess.

out of interest, how many upper brake lines does the canopy have? I have a 2006 Troll 285MDV and it has 5 but my 2009 OSP 285 has 4. I'm unsure if the newer Trolls have 4 or 5. I know this has been an issue on some older CR canopies...

It's 5. Has anyone removed it?

I have had a 2005 MDV troll it had 5 control lines. My 2007 troll also had 5. However my osp has 4 as does my tango. I recently have seen most new trolls come with 4. Don't know the year they changed though.

mine arrived february of this year and has 4

Are these Tension Knots more common on slider up than slider down?

Let me rephrase that...Has anyone ever seen a tension knot on a slider down/off jump?

That's exactly what happened to me on the Eiger, only your outcome was MUCH better than mine. Way to stay alive.

yes

yes, but only on unpacked jumps

In my opinion, base canopies should have 4 upper control lines. This is similar to the reserve parachutes that are the most tried and true 7 cell parachutes out there for when it matters most.

In about 06, there was a flood of tension knots. To name a few people that I know that had them, Karina, Coombesy, Othar, Elin?...they all spun in. and swear i heard of a few others that year or around that time. All were on base parachutes with 5 upper control lines. Aces and Fliks. The 5 upper control lines were a new feature, to better flare or something. some of them actually had a 5th line that was longer than the rest. Since then, the manufacturers have moved away from the 5th line for the most part, and those that have not have at least made it equal length to the others. Since then, we hear of less tension knots in base jumping.

I do not see the point of having a 5th upper control line. A base parachute should be wingloaded such that a good flare is no problem to achieve every time. No need for an extra feature to better flare power when you are already being put down soft every time by a big docile beast of a parachute.

Yes

What happened? Was it packed on unpacked? What canopy was it?

the terminator strikes again!

Tension knot ? or maybe it was a line-over ?
Did you look/inspect for any harsh line burns on the Right-side end cell & stabilizer on the canopy ?

I am assuming this was a Night jump and you got No visual when looking up for the Mal. when fighting the Canopy to actually pin-down the exact Malfunction ?
Might even been a Combo of both. But definitely inspect for line burns if you have not done already.
.

The Flik has 2 control lines longer than the others still.I never had any problems with my Ace with 5 control lines.Probably put 300 jumps on it(with maybe 75 SU)I only have maybe 150 on my Flik.All my other jumps were a mojo and a fox v-tec(maybe 300 jumps a piece)I ahve an Ace 280 that I have under 100 jumps on with no problems yet(Knock on wood)

I recently bought a Flik (2010), and it came with 4 upper control lines. Apex offers them either way. Us BASE jumpers are still such a small test sample that things stay pretty inconclusive as to what is the absolute best/safest, and the companies sell us the best stuff they can think of and sell us what we want. After all, it is ultimately our own business what we step off the edge with, not theirs.

I had a Flik with 5 uppers, the 5th lines longer than the rest. I never had any problems either. After about 100 jumps, I cut the 5th lines off because i didn't like what i was seeing around me. Flare and flying wise, I didn't notice much difference, but some. Not better, or worse, just different and towards my preference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_VXI9WFLM4

Take a look at the last jump. Similar?

Mmm, I have looked at this quite a few times but I can not see a tension knot there. It is strange though that the canopy starts to react when the brakes are released. The brakes lines seem to run free after releasing (I can not see a knot) so wtf is happening then?

We thought it might be not sufficiant cell pressure due to the wingload. Its an 280 mojo and i'm 75Kg.
Cant say for sure..

What generally causes tension knots?

5th control line per side seems to statistically increase the likelihood.

Looks like the right side collapsed as the left side inflated.

ummmm Tension?
Take care,
space

knot true, tension keeps the knot but does not cause it.

I am a frayed knot
Take care,
space

there is always tension just not always a knot
line dump maybe. how can you really ever know?
packing, body position, bla bla bla

I had a very old skydiving rig that would get them. They were called "Steering line entanglements" at the time. Not much you can do to fix that sucker. Had four cutaways on that main and they were all on the same side. The steering line set would just totally rap up around the cascade of the D line.

Went through many other mains and it never happened again. I have a feeling that it isn't an even inflation, but too quick to notice.

And in the Dark Ages, a BASE packjob was similar to the skydiving pack jobs of the day. We saw some horrible injuries from line overs, and Hewitt came up with the LRM. Practically everyone switched to it quickly. You rarely see a lineover watching thousands of jumps at the DZ. They were far more common in slider down BASE jumps, but it took a while to realize this.

If you have a tension not that can't be controlled without putting you into a stall, it is going to hurt really bad. However I did video a guy once who had a perfect bow tie lineover. He was new, so I imagine that he packed it. Really cool to watch on a skydive.

To deal with one, pop the toggle on the knotted side to give you a little more length, and then steer aggresively with the risers. I have tried to clear them by pumping and haven't succeeded. Maybe someone else has had better luck. The problem is that correcting it may put you into a stall.

I assume that there has to be some slack on the steering or D line for it to happen, almost certainly the steering line. I mean, when they happened to me, the whole steering line set was a mess.

I cut mine off as well on my 2nd Flik I bought last year. I didn't see a whole lot of difference accept when slider up.

I have a hypothesis about this. I think tenison knots come from three things.
1: line dump - too large PC or bad velcro
2: lines that aren't dried straight
3: improper stowing of lines in tailpocket

1 is obvious, make sure to use the right size pc and have good velcro to avoid line dumps
2 - I've seen many people field-pack their (moist) gear and leave it for a considerable time before hanging to dry. I always try to hang the canopy with straight lines hanging on its own weight, and when I have "dried spaghetti" I wet the lines before the hanging.
3 - I try to do the figure eight's when stowing lines in the tail pocket successively smaller, so as not to make a loop trap another loop. Many people pack with same size eight's. Of course this isn't science or statistics, but in my head this should work better.

I've also heard that in the event of a tension knot, it can help to pull and release the risers, either front or rear, symmetrically. This could take off tension enough to release the knot.

Good job PLF-ing, glad you're ok!

Just checking this thread and was really surprised to see that someone has experienced tension knots on a slider down Packjob??? That has to be just basic" brain dead" attention to the packjob!!!
Tension knots used to be quite common with older skydiving canopies if the dacron lines had a lot of jumps on them and were getting fuzzy. less and less common with spectra, ( but not unheard of),
I think other than incredibly bad packing,the only incidents of tension knots in BASE will always be slider up, and more often than not the lines will have considerable jumps on them. I know there will be those that disagree with this view, but can you honestly stand behind the integrity of the packing?
I have a shitload of reserve rides on Tandem canopies due to tension knots (never packed one of them myself), but that's a completely different environment, and they have all been dacron lines.
Just some thoughts, regards,B.